Flying with firearms and the TSA, new info

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ive had all kinds of experiences w/ TSA screeners and ticket agents, with Continental, Southwest, and America West.

they have not given me a hard time, although i believe they don't really know what they're doing they're just going through the motions. ive travelled with a registered machine gun and they didn't seem to notice the short barrel of the MP5 or the selector switch with the "S-E-F" positions. all they care about is whether or not it is loaded or not. sometimes im not even sure if they're looking in the right hole to see if its loaded or not. then again, TSA and the ticket agents don't enforce NFA laws anyway so why should they care.

one ticket agent wanted to put the firearm declaration tag on the outside of my bag but i corrected her. she had to ask another employee who told her she was incorrect. no big deal.

in Las Vegas i had a locked case with 10 pistols. TSA agents wanted to look at them so they had me open the case. they seemed more like a bunch of guys who liked guns and just wanted to look, no trouble, no big deal. i unlocked the re-locked the case in their presence.

ive had a TSA agent look at a case i had with a full auto MP5A2 and a suppressor. he didn't give me a hard time, but at the same time i don't think he knew it was a full auto weapon, nor did he seem to think it was a real silencer either. i don't think it mattered to him anyway.

my feeling is that so long as you're nice to TSA and ticket agents, they're nice to you. i've never had any problems and i travel with full auto weapons. what they don't know won't hurt them (if i introduced Class III paperwork into the mix it would only confuse a bunch of people, although I carry a copy of the registration form with me and another copy of the form in the locked case). if they have questions i'll answer them but i don't add things to complicate things. i've never had them ask for me to unlock it and then take my weapon somewhere out of my sight. usually they just ask me to show its unloaded right there in front of everyone, which is no bueno since if there is a thief in line he's just zeroed in on my bag.

however, when i flew into Norfolk, VA, and Austin, TX, they have always had the common sense to hold my long gun case at the baggage office so it doesnt go onto the carousel and people have a shot at taking it. They also did ask me for ID and verified my tags stapled from my boarding pass to the baggage tag.
 
What do you do for a living spreadfire arms?

What do you do for a living the requires you to fly with a suppressed MP5 spreadfire arms? Do you work for a firearms manufacturer? Can you get me a job there? :)
 
Thank you

Although I've never traveled w/ a gun by plane, I always thought it was more of a hassle. There have been many times I have wanted to take firearm w/ me when I traveled but never wanted to deal w/ trouble. I guess it's not much of a problem, should have check into it more, thanks so much for the informative post.
 
Here's the real question; On 9/11 several government agencies, FBI, CIA, NSA, FAA, INS and more, failed to do their job and protect the citizens of this country. Those private security screeners from all accounts are the only ones who did their job. The terrorists had nothing they weren't allowed by law to carry on a plane. Why then did we fire the ones who did their job and hand their responsibilities over to those who failed?

I am a corrections officer and know several people who were hired by the TSA, one as a supervisor. Let's just say they won't be missed by us, except that things run smoother here without them.
 
Mike Isajewicz:

If memory serves, I believe that you might foind the answer to your question in THE PETER PRINCIPLE. Also via Incompetence is rewared by the incompetent, or Incompetence is it's own reward. Words to that effect.

Of course, I could be all wrong, re the simple observation that some people are just plain dumb, for it could turn out that there were really arcane factors involved. I don't really think so though, opting for human stupidity before human ingenuity most, if not all of the time.
 
"The terrorists had nothing they weren't allowed by law to carry on a plane."

Not sure if it was a law or regulation but in the 9-11 commission report they stated that the rule was no regular knife blades more than 4 inches but boxcutters were specificly forbidden by the FAA

I do not have the report in front of me so as always I could be wrong.

NukemJim
 
I'll jump in on this dead horse, too.

First, I second a positive experience flying Delta out of Tampa, FL. They were quick and professional and didn't treat us like criminals.

I'm a big fan, though, of calling my airline before traveling. I did it to ensure I could:

A) transport two rifles in one double-rifle case. Some airlines seem to care how many guns are in a case, or that each person only have one gun case. My husband and I were traveling together, and it certainly made more sense to buy ONE airline-ready case than to buy TWO, but it also made sense to check first.

B) pack ammunition in the same firearm case. And I could. But I thought I'd ask, since if the airline cared that much, I'd have been happy to put it in a locked pistol case in my suitcase.

One of the things I've learned in my years of dealing with the federal government is that you can be right, and you can still be screwed. :cuss: I didn't want anything interfering with getting back home for deer season, so we double-checked to ensure we'd be ready to jump through any airline-imposed hoops.

The stupidity level is high, but I find that a call-ahead lets you know what to be prepared for (or if there's going to be a really dumb argument that you need to have paperwork and phone numbers ready for). :rolleyes:
 
For the past 5 years, once or twice a year, I fly up to either Pendleton, OR (via Portland) or Boise, ID. I fly on Alaska & its sister line, Horizon Air. This is from SFO or San Jose airport.

Alaska & Horizon do fly lots of hunters up in the Pacific Northwest, so perhaps I am lucky. Each time, I transport several (declared) firearms in a Starlight case, with some (declared) ammo in my baggage. Usu there are one maybe two 'assault weapons' (by Calif's definition) and hicap magazines involved.

I've never had any real problems with Alaska Air employees, and never w/TSA.

One Alaska Air counter girl asked me to leave the case unlocked for TSA inspection. I refused, even after she said "we do this all the time". I insisted that there could be violations of state law (assault weapons laws) and that TSA could be the only one to unlock, examine, and relock.

When I put the red-orange 'Firearms Declared' card in my case, I do NOT unlock the case but slightly unlatch it and slide it through a small gap. [This is primarily to be compliant with CA's assault weapons laws, not TSA/FAA etc law.]

(I also ask for a separate tag for ammo carried in my suitcase. Even though this may not be legally required, I'd hate to have ammo found in my bag without it esp if it got separated from accompanying my rifle case with its red card.)

While techincally perhaps not aligned with all the rules, I will follow TSA's play-by-play. So the counter girl sends my locked rifle case down, along with a sealed envelope with padlock combinations, addressed "For TSA only".

The real issue is, at your destination or return airport, pick up your luggage ASAP.... Even if you ask specifically for your rifle case to be held at the luggage center for pickup with ID required, sometimes it doesn't happen and it just ends up on the conveyor. When yout get off your plane, don't stop to socialize, get a Coke, go to the restroom, etc. Sometimes smaller planes can have their luggage unloaded and to the luggage conveyor just about the time passengers get off the plane and down the concourse. You don't want your rifles circling the luggage carousel for 15 minutes while Columbian luggage thieves are scouting it for theft...

I've never had grief w/TSA folks. At Boise & Pendleton they handle the oversize luggage screening themselves with you present (as opposed to in the bowels of a large airport) and are very friendly - some are ex-mil guys, it seems, and there is a bit of gun talk ;)

Because I do live in California, I do carry my AW registration paperwork just in case. And I do mail a self-addressed sealed letter of intent to myself a few days before trip, stating the guns I am bringing and the number of hi-cap magazines I am travelling with -- just in case there were any state/local questions about importation of assault weapons or hicaps. Paranoid, but perhaps worth it - we'll see.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
reviving an old thread

I read the entire thread and am still confused by one issue.

I know the hard sided case which contains the firearm has to be locked with the key in my possession. But what about the suitcase? Does the suitcase holding the hard sided case have to be locked with another key in my possession?
 
What passes for a TSA-approved hard sided gun case? It appears from this thread that plastic cases are OK: but there is cheap plastic and tuff stuff. (Obviously the case has to be lockable.)

Do TSA approved locks have any role in flying with firearms?
My take is that they do not, because thr TSA is not supposed to have access to your firearms, once checked in. But if you have ammo in another checked bag, it should be locked, but TSA often forces open?

C
 
I don't use TSA locks on my bags. I let the ticket agent know that I'll hang around for a few minutes in case i'm needed. If I get to take the bag to TSA myself I'll let the TSA agent know that there's a gun inside. I don't trust TSA locks. Probably every baggage handler has a master key (as if they didn't for my hard side Samsonite drug smuggler special). :D I always carry a copy of the law with me. Sometimes I take a copy of TSA regs if the current version makes sense according to the law. :evil:
 
I'm with Yugiho. :confused:

If you have a handgun in a locked case inside a regular suitcase ("checked baggage"), can you lock the regular suitcase with a non-TSA lock?

I thought you couldn't. Now I'm reading that you can if you hang around the TSA checking area until they say it's cool.


For extra credit - what if you're changing planes? Does that make a difference? I imagine there's no difference but the question of plane changes came up a few days ago.

Thanks.
 
If you have a handgun in a locked case inside a regular suitcase ("checked baggage"), can you lock the regular suitcase with a non-TSA lock?
Click to expand...

Sure. The regs say the firearm itself has to be locked up, not the case that case goes in. If you shipped a rifle without another case then you'd not use a TSA lock, but if you use a handgun case inside a regular suitcase that suitcase can have a TSA lock as long as the handgun case itself does not.
 
Changing Planes

For extra credit - what if you're changing planes? Does that make a difference? I imagine there's no difference but the question of plane changes came up a few days ago.
Click to expand...

If the luggage is passed between airlines without your involvement, your traveling companion is a non-issue.

If you change and have to recheck your luggage with Airline B, see below:

http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourRights/us%20letter.pdf

U. S. Department of Justice
Office of Legislative Affairs
Office of the Assistant Attorney General
Washington, D.C. 20530
February 18, 2005


The Honorable Don Young
U.S. House of Representatives
Washington, DC 20515


Dear Congressman Young:

Thank you for your letter, dated June 18, 2003, to Admiral James M. Loy, then- Administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), concerning the applicability of 18 U.S.C. section 926A to persons at airports in New York State who are taking flights to destinations outside of New York. Because section 926A is a provision of the Gun Control Act (GCA), which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) enforces, TSA forwarded your letter to the Department of Justice for response. We apologize for the delay in responding.

In your letter you explained that local police officers in New York have threatened several individuals at John F. Kennedy International Airport and Albany International Airport with arrest for firearms possession based on strict State laws, and that in at least one case the firearms were confiscated. You explained that: (1) the people carrying the firearms were not prohibited from possessing firearms under Federal law, (2) the people had apparently traveled directly, without any interruption in the transportation, to the airports from other States where they legally could possess firearms, (3) their firearms and ammunition were secured in accordance with all applicable regulations for airline travel, and (4) they were flying to other States or countries where they could legally possess firearms.

You then asked if TSA agrees that section 926A enables these travelers to possess the firearms legally in the New York airports and if so, if TSA would inform local police and prosecutors about this provision of the GCA. We appreciate your bringing this issue to our attention. The Department of Justice agrees that the provisions of section 926A apply to the situation set forth above assuming: (1) the person is traveling from somewhere he lawfully may possess and carry a firearm; (2) en route to the airport the firearm is unloaded and not accessible from the passenger compartment of his car; (3) the person transports the firearm directly from his vehicle to the airline check-in desk without any interuption in the transportation; and (4) while carrying the firearm to the check-in desk it is unloaded and in a locked container. This interpretation reflects the apparent congressional intent in enacting this provision, while allowing State and local law enforcement to continue to enforce their firearms laws aggressively to promote public safety. We will inform the applicable law enforcement authorities of our interpretation of section 926A.

We trust this information responds to your inquiry. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact this office.

Sincerely,





William E. Moschella
Assistant Attorney General
Click to expand...

Bottom line switching modes of transportation on a trip - car to plane to different airline plane to car - is covered as if you are in your car and do not stop for anything but gas and chow.
 
I'm flying out of Tampa to Vegas soon.
I'm a newly diagonsed diabetic. I figure TSA will freak when I bring my needles and stuff as carry on.
I checked the regs and supposedly I can do it.
No problem to check my gun through though. Weird
I'd rather drive.

AFS
 
After rereading this thread as well as other threads on this subject at other forums, I've come to the conclusion that non-TSA locks should be used in hard gun case as well as the suitcase that holds it.

According to the law, I must be present if TSA wants to inspect the locked suitcase. So there's no need for any TSA approved locks. Also, the law states that only the passenger may have the key or combination.
 
I have little worry about aspects of the law of which gov't agency gets to look when and when something is unlocked due to their direction. I have zero fear of prosecution for this.

That's their interagency fight, TSA vs FAA - if any gov't agency at the airport wants to see in the case and it can help me get my flight on time, they'll get the key as long as it comes back to me (or combo). In some airports you just can't go into the bowels, and there's no side area to meet w/TSA to unlock cases, etc. - and it takes too long to explain the laws to the airline gate folks and TSA staff.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
As I haven't flown with arms since some time in the 1980's I do not recall exactly what year it was, this discussion is sort of "academic" however I will make or point out two things.

When last I flew with arms, it was a pistol, I declared it, doing up a form as I recall, and put it in checked luggage, along with about 2000 rounds of ammunition, 9mm and 45 ACP. I was latertold that such transit was "illegal", but at the time, nobody asked or said much about ammuinition. One counter person offered that my suitcase was "heavy". I allowed that it was, and that was that.

On the otrher hand, in May, 2007, we flew (my wife and I) from Pittsburgh to New Bern, North Carolina for a couple of weeks at the beach. In my carry on bag, I had some prescription medications I take, a can of shaving cream, a Shick Injector Razor I've had for 50 plus years ands a partial "clip" of blades. Flying out of Pittsburgh, there were no problems of any kind. Flying back to Pittsburgh, from New Bern, the TSA Hitler declared that I had "contraband" in my bag, that partial "clip" of injector blades, he spoke in a loud voice, and confiscated, spelled STOLE my razor blades.

In the course of some correspondence with the minions of TSA, I was told that essentially one traveled on the sufference of the TSA clown that officiated at "security". Between the antics of these bureaucratic clowns and airline idiocy, when I do trravel these days, I make all reasonable efforts to avoid flying, so bad spelled horrific has air travel become.
 
Yugiho said:
After rereading this thread as well as other threads on this subject at other forums, I've come to the conclusion that non-TSA locks should be used in hard gun case as well as the suitcase that holds it.

According to the law, I must be present if TSA wants to inspect the locked suitcase. So there's no need for any TSA approved locks. Also, the law states that only the passenger may have the key or combination.
Click to expand...
Unless I have misunderstood the several places this is covered in the CFR, you are incorrect. The CFR requires that you retain the keys or combination to the locked gun case. Nothing requires that the outer suitcase even be locked.
 
Just a thought ...
How about a 911 call stating that "those screeners are forcing me to commit a federal felony ... please send marshalls and arrest them"
 
After going through one security checkpoint where the screeners had to take my disposable cameras out of their original packaging, the next checkpoint had to x-ray them individually since they were not in their original packaging. Then the airline put me on a bus to take me to my plane, and the bus had a tool box in it with a claw hammer, a box cutter, a couple of screwdrivers etc. You really cannot make up how maddeningly ineffective and stupid this whole system is.
 
Spreadfire seems to have made a most interesting point re dealing with "government agents".

Do not answer questions that haven't been asked.
 
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