Flying with firearms and the TSA, new info

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Wakal, your story illustrates as clear as day that we have in fact become a police state. More and more, we see agents of the government, officers of the law and officers of the courts who feel that they are more powerful than the law, and that without review, they may make up their own regulations as they see fit and that we should be forced to follow them without question.

How dare you question the man's authority? :fire:
 
Last time I flew anywhere I placed a zip tie through the barrel of my gun. It made is allot easier for the ticket people to see that the gun was not loaded. It doesn't sound like the ticket people have to look a the gun any more just the security people.
 
You would think they would want the cases locked:confused:

Otherwise those evil weapons could escape and storm the cockpit:D
 
Per request, I'm gonna let this float. I'll maybe repost it with just Jeff's comments and the URLs, when I get a chance. I'll let that new thread float and send this on "back down the ladder".

:), Art
 
Unforunately, it's not always TSA that doesn't know what they are doing and having a printed copy of their regulations may not help.

On a recent hunting excursion to South Africa, I had to check bags from Amarillo to Laguardia, pick them up, go cross town to JFK and check in again.

I had checked the regs, both TSA's and the airlines and head the regs printed out. I had my rifle in one level of very sturdy and secure case and my ammo in another level in factory boxes. No problem checking in here in Amarillo. No problem checking in with the airline. But then, they say the Port Authority Police have to examine. OK, here comes the largest person I have ever seen in a LEO uniform. Politley examines my rifle, says ok then ask where my ammo is packed. I advise one the other side of the case. He looks and tells me it must be in a seperate locked bag.

I advise TSA regs says it can be in the same bag but choice is up the airline and show him the regs. He looks and says he doesn't care what TSA says, "This is New York City and I say it has to go in a different and locked bag." End of discussion.

Fortunately I had an extra lock and moved ammo to my suitcase and locked it. An airline employee then walked me to TSA who did not open or question either bag. Oh well !!!!!!!
 
Gentlemen:

When you have a problem at the airport with TSA, ask first to see the screener's supervisor, then the Assistant Federal Security Director or the Federal Security Director. Don't ask for an LEO because they are usually not familiar with Federal Laws and are trained to respond to TSA personnel at airports.

If you show them a copy of the regulations they will back down. Make sure you ask each person for their name also. Afterwards, send a letter to John Ashcroft and each of your representatives.

Gradually they are putting TSA in their place.

John from MD ( who happens to also work for Uncle Sugar )
 
Reading all these stories has reinforced my determination not to fly unless I'm on U.S. Navy owned aircraft.

I have only flown once with firearms, and that was pre-WTC attack.

I have a Gunsite class in september. I'm driving down from Washington State.
 
Same experience at Indianapolis last Memorial Day weekend. The airline agent walked me downstairs to the screening entrance, took my keys behind the door, and as she was heading back upstairs I protested her violating regulations. After about 15 minutes, a lackadaisical TSA screener came from behind the door and returned my keys, and I also voiced my complaint to him but he said "we're just going by SOP". I took names and planned on complaining in writing, but after realizing how inept the whole damn system is, I said F it.
 
My Experience Flying with Firearms on SouthWest Airlines

Flying to New Orleans, LA from Fort Lauderdale, FL. Louisiana and Florida have reciprocity so I can carry while I'm there.

Get to Fort Lauderdale airport early in the AM. Go up to Skycap and inform him that I'm declaring firearms in my checked baggage and tip him 5 bucks. He says to follow him inside since this has to be handled at the customer service counter. We proceed past about 40 people to the front of the line, saving me from at least a 1-hour wait!

Tell the agent behind the counter that I'm declaring firearms. She has me open the luggage and the locked firearms case to demonstrate they are unloaded. I clear my G22, G29 and Kel-Tec P32 for her. Ammo for said firearms is also inside in a hard plastic ammo case.

She fills out a tag and places it in the case. I close and lock the case, and zip up the luggage. She checks the baggage in. That's it.

The flight back from New Orleans was exactly the same. Tipped the Skycap 5 bucks and he marches me to the front of a very long line at customer service. This time, the guy who was previously first on line started bitching when I received priority treatment, and promptly shup up when I pulled out my handguns! Ran through the same drill. Same outcome.

Extremely satisfied with SouthWest Airlines.

Moral of the story: The quickest way through an airport is to bring a gun!...

...and 5 bucks. :D
 
Perhaps C-Note is on to something...

with the quickest way through the air terminal being having a firearm to check. What about the idea of picking up a used, but decent condition handgun, maybe a wheel gun, and some ammo for same. Take it with you on all air trips. Maybe never shoot the thing, just use it as a 'talisman' to expidite one's checkin procedure and bypass the lines that always form on checkin/baggage check.
 
And to think that these TSA dummies are FEDERAL AGENTS. Sort of like the FBI. FAMOUS BUT INCOMPETENT.
 
Prior to 9/11 airline security screeners were:

- Employed and paid by the airline or airport authority

- Low paid

- Either unmotivated, uncaring, inept or a combination of the three.

- Able to be fired from their job for any number of reasons

After 9/11, the newly professionalized screeners, at least according to Chuckie Schumer (D-NY) are:

- Employed by the Federal Government and paid with our tax dollars

- More highly paid

- Either unmotivated, uncaring, inept or a combination of the three

- Protected by the Federal Employees Union. It would take an act of god to get these folks fired now

So, are we any safer?
 
C-Note:

Re the experience you descxribed, certainly soiunds like it was forth a ten spot, however re what you described, both checked handguns AND ammunition IN THE SAME CHECKED LUGGAGE OR CASE, it was my understanding that this was one of those NO-NO'S.

No reason for that other than "regulations", obviously a poor justification for arrant nonsense, but thayt was supposedly the "straight skinny". Corrrect me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
 
I flew Continental from New Orleans yesterday with 2 handguns in a locked case. I was told the ammunition could either be in the same case or another case, which didn't need to be locked. I elected to put it in a seperate case, because otherwise it would be illegal as soon as I got in my car in Cal. There was a person I took to be a TSA agent behind the counter, but the regular ticket agent had me open the case and show her they were unloaded. I then relocked the case and checked it through. I'm not really sure what the agent was doing there, except I guess he issued the little red tag they had me sign and put in the case.

All in all, I got the impression it was something they did frequently. I was a little surprised on the other end in Sacramento when they came through on the carrousel with the rest of the luggage.
 
Hi Alan,

This is straight from SouthWest's website:
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/guns.html

Ammunition

Small arms ammunition for personal use (provided it is properly packed) is permissible in checked baggage only.

The ammunition may be placed in the same container as the firearm and must be securely packed in cardboard (fiber), wood, or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

When checking ammunition, Customers are limited to 11 pounds gross weight (ammunition plus container) per person.

Magazines or clips containing ammunition must be securely packaged (placed in another small box or in a secure cutout in the carrying case, in order to protect the primer of the ammunition).

Make sure guns are unloaded and definitely never transport a gun in your carryon baggage!

Gunpowder (black powder) and primers or percussion caps are not allowed in checked or carryon baggage.

Loose ammunition or loose loaded magazines and/or clips are not allowed.
 
C-Note:

Thanks for the response.

My question goes back a number of years, almost 20 in fact.

I was transporting a pistol, declared in checked luggage. No problem with that.

I had mentioned to the counter agent that "there was some ammunition in the luggage also. Got no particular response to that, and I did not mention that "some ammunition" was about 1500 rounds of 9mm and 45 ACP. Yes, the bag was rather heavy.

Anyhow, I was later on told in conversation that the declared pistol was O.K., but the ammumnition and pistol, in same checked luggage would have been a problem, if the counter person had known the law/regulations. My flight was on U.S. Air, from Pittsbrugh to Charlotte N.C.

Ignorance might, after all, be bliss.
 
FWIW, I flew from Atlanta to Minneapolis-St.Paul over the weekend on business, transporting my Taurus PT-145 Millennium Pro with two magazines in my bag.

In Atlanta, when I told the ticket agent I had an unloaded firearm in the bag, she got the orange "Unloaded" card, and asked to see the weapon. I showed it to her, and demonstrated it was unloaded by pulling the slide partway back. Not sure she could see into the chamber, but she accepted it, had me put the tag inside the gun box, then told me to lock the box, which I did, then had me place it in the bag and lock the zippers. She then told me to take it over to the TSA Security checkpoint, which I did. I told the TSA agent about the weapon, and he asked if it was unloaded, did the agent give me the tag, was the weapon inside a hard sided case, with the tag in the case, and was there any ammunition in the case. The ammo was in two loaded magazines in a hard double magazine pouch, elsewhere in the bag. After I told him that there was no ammo in the case, I was temporarily uneasy, wondering if he meant the pistol case, or the bag. Since he referred to the bag as "bag," though, I didn't anticipate any problem. There was none -- the bag went through the X-ray machine, and the guy who took it out pointed to it and asked if it was mine. I nodded, and he put it on the conveyer, motioning me to go on to the gate. No problems encountered.

In Minneapolis on the return flight, I notified the ticket agent about the firearm, and she called over a TSA security officer, who looked at the gun (never checked the chamber), put the orange tag in the case, and locked the case with one of my padlocks. He then put the gun in the bag, zipped it up, locked it and sent it on its way on the conveyer. Again, no problems.

Then, as I was starting to get in line to go through security, I realized that when I emptied my pockets, I had neglected to take out my S&W SWAT automatic knife, which was clipped to the side of my pocket! DAMN! :banghead: Now What!??! I hastily got out of line and returned to the ticket agent, where the TSA guy was still standing. I told them I'd forgotten my knife, and asked if there was any way I could put it in my bag. (Thought I'd probably have to try to find an envelope and mail it home -- fortunately, had plenty of time.) The TSA guy said he remembered my bag, and offered to put it in one of the outside pockets for me. I gave him the knife, and spent my flight home wondering if I'd just helped arm a TSA security officer. To make a long story short, the knife was in the pocket when I got my bag back in Atlanta.

My experience was positive on both ends, with neither the Delta Airlines people nor the TSA officers treating my transporting the weapon as anything but routine. Never was asked about ammo, and no problems transporting it in a soft bag with the zippers locked with a luggage padlock. Just had to be locked in a hard-sided case inside the bag, was all.
 
Hypnogator

Sounds like you encountered TSA agents who had a lick of common sense. Its the rest of them I worry about.
 
In addition to keeping copies of those regs handy, also carry a copy of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act to show your right to transport firearms period.

If I knew how to file a suit, or could find a supportive lawyer (surprisingly hard to find), I'd use the FOPA on the transit cop who, after an hour of trying every possible way to refuse my desire to transport a G26 in checked-in luggage, finally just declared "we are the law of this airport and you are not taking that on this flight" (got it on tape even).
 
In San Jose last week the American ticket agent asked for my key during boarding. I told here that I was passenger and that I was supposed to retain it under federal law. I sure wish I had copy of the regs with me, because whe insisted that it was necessary to board the flight. She called
the TSA guy who came up from the flight line to get the key, went away for 10 minutes, and then came back and let me get on the flight. (Apparently we departed late just for me.) I didn't feel great about the "security" of having an unlocked firearm down on the flight line.

"That's like a UPS clerk telling you to write "handgun inside" on the outside of the package when shipping it."

First thing I did after claiming my bags was to make sure my firearm was still in the bag. It was easy to spot the bag, someone had put a big red "F" on the tag. There was no little "we rummaged in your bag" courtesy notice either, like there was in my backpack, probably another law broken there. Next time I carry a copy of the regs, and an extra copy for the airline personnel as well, who should also take an interest in preventing TSA personnel from creating security risks. Used to be you checked a locked case and that was that, now you have TSA people opening them up out on the flight line and marking the bag?
 
>>That's like a UPS clerk telling you to write "handgun inside" on the outside of the package when shipping it.<<

It is a violation of federal law for any common carrier to identify on the outside of a container that the package contains a firearm. This applies to UPS, Fedex, or the airlines.

The law?

The Brady Law.
 
No Problems at Las Vegas Airport

I just flew from Las Vegas to Fort Lauderdale. Declared my locked unloaded Kimber 45 in hard-sided Samsonite checked luggage to the American Airlines counter agent, who was very professional and polite.

The AA counter agent inserted my declaration form, had me carry my luggage over to the TSA agent who also was very professional and courteous and I was 'done' much faster than I expected and with zero hassle on anyone's part. The TSA agent simply verified my sidearm was unloaded after I opened the luggage for inspection and we chatted briefly about my Kimber .45. Then off went my luggage without fanfare.

Everything went just right. I had a copy of the regs and the TSA printout on carrying firearms and ammunition inside the luggage as well, and never did the key to either the luggage or the locked carrying case leave my possession.
 
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