FMJ 9mm for CCW?

[Woogies]

So I just received my Utah permit today . I'm carrying a KAHR CW9. I haven't been shooting in a while (only 100rds in the gun..haven't even reached the 200rd break in ). This is due to time restraints and the cold weather.

However I can't for the life of me, find ANY ammo; Particularly hollow points or defense rounds. I mean nothing online or locally. I'm getting quite frustrated actually. The only thing I have now is some 124gr FMJ of Red-Dot arms ammo in the magazines now.

I know there are concerns of over penetration with FMJ. How much should I be concerned with carrying the good ole fashion FMJ until ammo stocks go back up? And I can find a better suited ammo for CCW?

 

[Torian]

Well, we only use NATO FMJ loads in Iraq and Afghanistan, so maybe it isn't quite so bad.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If fmj is what you can get that's what you should carry.

I think the overpenatration bit is vastly overstated. You're far far more likely to hit an unintended bystander from a pure miss than from an overpenatrating round. A jhp is no replacement for rule #4




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

 

[needmorecowbell]

I often have 9mm fmj in my carry gun and have no problem with it. As in life, I think we're hit with a lot of good marketing to convince us we need something better. Not saying that jhp might be better for SD, but fmj will do just fine too. I know I don't want to be on the receiving end of it

 

[ETXhiker]

All other things being equal, hollow points might be better, but historically a lot of fights have been ended with a well placed 9mm FMJ.

 

[Stress_Test]

It'd be interesting to know the statistics on the number of people who were seriously injured or killed by a complete pass-through round, ie, a round that went completely through one person and struck another.

I bet it's a very small number. Like others have said, stray rounds are a much bigger concern.

 

[Onward Allusion]

If you can't find other ammo, then by all means carry FMJ. Otherwise you'd have a paperweight. If it's good enough for war, it'll probably be ok for self defense. Hit your target and even if it passes through you odds of hurting an innocent is pretty small. The thing is, even HP's have been known to over-penetrate. Think about it...shoot a BG in the neck, arm, or leg with a decent caliber...pretty sure it's gonna go through and through. Shoot a skinny punk with no meat...again, probably go right through.

 

[Random Discharge]

Goes bang. Makes hole. Good penetration. Even better than 380 FMJ. No worries.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Given a choice there is no way I would ever choose to carry FMJ in 9mm over any HP. But if that is all available its better than nothing. I would continue to find HPs for your weapon. HPs are less prone to over penetration and an expanded HP is more damaging to tissue than a smooth FMJ any day. They are also much less likely to ricochet off bone and other materials. There are many advantage to HP over FMJ. The only benefit of FMJ is more penetration. People are only so thick so any penetration beyond your target is just wasted potential. As far as I'm concerned the argument for FMjs is only valid in the 380 or smaller caliber weapons. 9mm and above have plenty of velocity and momentum to take advantage of HPs so why not use them?

The bottom line to me is to practice enough with your weapon so you are confident about your ability to hit your target with well placed hits. If you can't do that then what type of ammo you use is really moot right?

 

[chris in va]

Perhaps someone is willing to trade their JHP for a few extra of your FMJ.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I wouldn't shoot a dog with a 9mm fmj.. well, in the head I would were it suffering. There's a reason fmj's are illegal for hunting anything but some varmints.

 

[MedWheeler]

I'd carry it, and I did briefly until I wad finished "proofing" my carry weapon with a JHP load.
The odds that you'll ever even need it are pretty low already, right? Keep your head up, your game on, and your eyes open (for both potential threats, and for a more-suitable ammo selection when it becomes available.)

 

[welshdude]

9mm ammo is hard to find reasonably priced. I got lucky and procurred 350 rounds of Federal FMJ 115 standard in a fair trade for some .22lr. Have gone through 60 rounds in weekly practice. My carry rounds are Copper Only Projectiles JHP 115 gr +P. They were pricey @ 22.00 for a box of 25, but hopefully I'll pass them all on to my son.

My 'find' was on armslist.com. Keep looking. Be patient. As soon as the 'panic' settles down things will loosen back up.

 

[digsigs226]

I wouldn't shoot a dog with a 9mm fmj.. well, in the head I would were it suffering. There's a reason fmj's are illegal for hunting anything but some varmints.

Let's not forget that even the "puny" 9 mm FMJ is widely regarded as superior or at least equal to the .38 Special, which was a standard LEO round for decades.
http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm_vs_.38special.php

Carry what you have as it is better than nothing, and switch to +p hollowpoints when you can find them. Just because your carry system is less than ideal at the moment doesn't mean you are better off leaving it in the safe.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Well, we only use NATO FMJ loads in Iraq and Afghanistan, so maybe it isn't quite so bad.

Because law governing war says that you are not allowed to use expanding hollow points.... Don't confuse the what the military uses with what is the best option to civilians...

 

[Torian]

No one is "confused" allaroundhunter, least of all me.

My point is there is plenty of data that shows the effectiveness of using 9mm FMJ in a combat zone. What's "best" for the individual above might very well be what he is the best shot with...and what kind of ammo he is capable of getting a hold of at the moment.

FMJ will get the job done if you need it to. Or feel free to sell him some of your HP stash!

 

[481]

I've had to carry FMJ and would do it again if FMJ was all I could find.

It ain't the "arrows", it's the "Indian".

 

[Bobson]

If FMJ is what you can get that's what you should carry.

I think the over-penetration bit is vastly overstated. You're far more likely to hit an unintended bystander from a pure miss than from an over-penetrating round. A JHP is no replacement for Rule #4.

I agree. I carried FMJ in my Glock 19 for a while. It may not be ideal, but if it's all you can find, don't kill yourself worrying about it.

Suppose you were in a SD situation where you needed to shoot. You're loaded with quality JHP ammo. If your attacker had innocent people directly behind him, would you shoot? Your answer shouldn't change just because your ammo did - it should be "No" either way.

ETA:

I'm not saying go ahead and carry FMJ forever. I'm just saying some of the hazards of doing so may be blown out of proportion. I still recommend you switch to a JHP when you're able to find it.

 

[allaroundhunter]

My point is there is plenty of data that shows the effectiveness of using 9mm FMJ in a combat zone. What's "best" for the individual above might very well be what he is the best shot with...and what kind of ammo he is capable of getting a hold of at the moment.

FMJ will get the job done if you need it to. Or feel free to sell him some of your HP stash!

I never said that the OP should not use FMJ ammo, if it is all he has then he should use it. If it was all that I had, I would as well. But approving the use of FMJ ammo just because it is what the military uses is neither here nor there. Using something solely because the military does is nonsensical.

As far as the 9mm effectiveness in combat.... Well, that's a debatable subject, that should not be discussed here as it is a dead horse that has been beaten plenty... I had hoped that it would not have been brought into the thread actually.

 

[JFtheGR8]

Last time I checked Sportsman's Guide had Golden Saber 9mm hollow points for about $23 for a box of 25. They may still have some.


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[Onward Allusion]

Boy, a few of you guys are funny. The effectiveness of the 9mm FMJ around??? Sure, over-penetration , but effectiveness? Are guys that much tougher than 50 years ago when 38 Special LRN was the primary carry for LE?

I guess you fellas only carry 10mm or 45 Super, eh?

 

[C0untZer0]

I went through the mental exercise of carrying FMJ for my Rohtbaugh R9 because at 7 yards I can make about a 2" group with 124gr TMJ Lawman, but using Winchester 147gr Ranger T - RA9T, and PDX 147gr, and Gold Dot 147gr - the 7 shot groups open up to 3" and 4"

I haven't figured out why that is happening and if my own shooting or lack of proper grip or trigger pull or something is accounting for the difference in shot groups. But anyway, knowing the bullet could impact 4" away from where I am actually aiming using 147gr has been bothering me, so I thought about just using the 124gr TMJ. But when I think it through I realize I can't do that.

For me at least I have this nagging thought in my mind that the bullet might zip through and strike someone or something behind an attacker and messes up my concentration on a shot - instead of focusing on taking the shot, I would be looking around to see what is 25 feet behind the attacker, what is 50 feet behind the attacker, what is 100 feet...

It's just not going to work for me.

Next time out to the range I am going to try HST and Golden Sabre to see what kind of groups I get with those.

P.S. The trick to buying ammo is time travel - you have to go back to at least October 2012.

 

[allaroundhunter]

Countzero, the heavier bullets will have more recoil, and that very well could be causing you to anticipate the shot more. Try lighter (and non +P) defensive loads and see what it will do for you.

 

[mljdeckard]

I not only agree with post #3, I've been yelling it for years, amid all of the jeers.

Of course premium JHP is preferred. In a gunfight, you want every advantage you can get. But I think the advantage is misunderstood and often exaggerated. My wife is in a similar situation. I recently got her a SA XD-9, and the panic hit before we tested it with carry ammo. All I have right now is a lot of plated lead reloads. Which is worse: other-than-ideal rounds, or no rounds at all? I say, use what you have to, and keep your eyes open like the rest of us.

 

[Torian]

I never said that the OP should not use FMJ ammo, if it is all he has then he should use it. If it was all that I had, I would as well. But approving the use of FMJ ammo just because it is what the military uses is neither here nor there. Using something solely because the military does is nonsensical.

As far as the 9mm effectiveness in combat.... Well, that's a debatable subject, that should not be discussed here as it is a dead horse that has been beaten plenty... I had hoped that it would not have been brought into the thread actually.

It's a dead horse because you say it is? We are here to debate....that's why THR exists last I checked.

Sometimes you learn to make do with what you have. Welcome to the real world.

I would love to carry BTHPs in my M4 and SXTs in my M9, but I've managed with FMJ loads in each. If Woogies needs to carry FMJs for awhile, he will manage, particularly if he can find some NATO (+P) loads.