FMJ 9mm for CCW?

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Sometimes you learn to make do with what you have. Welcome to the real world.
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The "real world" should require a complete understanding of what one is responding to before one hits "reply"... :rolleyes:


Here is what I just said in my last post:

I never said that the OP should not use FMJ ammo, if it is all he has then he should use it. If it was all that I had, I would as well.... Using something solely because the military does is nonsensical.
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I would love to carry BTHPs in my M4 and SXTs in my M9, but I've managed with FMJ loads in each. If Woogies needs to carry FMJs for awhile, he will manage, particularly if he can find some NATO (+P) loads.
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FWIW, there are BTHP rounds that are issued to military units. Designated marksmen and snipers, as well as some others get them. However, they are not the HP rounds that are designed to expand or otherwise cause undue damage upon impacting a combatant.
 
No, THR exists to unify shooters, NOT "to debate". You should check again.

FMJ in the 9x19mm is better than a dirty look. It's not especially effective, and is very overpenetrative.

The only reason OTM rounds are allowed is that the hollow point is a ballistic feature.

John
 
Torian said:
Well, we only use NATO FMJ loads in Iraq and Afghanistan, so maybe it isn't quite so bad.
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The US military is constrained by the Hague Accord to use non-expanding ammunition for "humane" reasons, not because FMJ performs as well as a good JHP. Over penetration on the battlefield is usually a benefit, but not so much in the Wal-Mart parking lot. FMJ's generally wound better than they stop. On the battlefield, it drains men and resources to care for a wounded soldier, but back in that parking lot, it's better to stop the attacker as fast as possible.

Those that say they're "comfortable carrying FMJ," how many have used it to shoot someone at "social" distances? How well did it work? How many times did you shoot/hit them? How many rounds over penetrated? Anyone that carried FMJ that felt "comfortable" doing so (especially when they had the choice of carrying JHP) but didn't shoot anyone with it at close range isn't contributing anything useful to the discussion.

OP, if FMJ is all you have, then carry that. But get some JHP when possible (make sure its reliable in your gun) and work on your accuracy.
 
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What someone "manages" to get by with, when ordered to do so, and what folks should choose when they have the option are two very different things. I "managed to get by" with 120mm mortar rounds, 40mm, .50 BMG, and the occasional 7.62x51mm and 5.56x45mm, but hey, I managed to get by with FMJ in combat, so it should work for you the righteous CCWer too, even without the extensive fire support we have in combat...! :rolleyes:
Don't forget we're responsible for every round we fire in the US. I've seem bad NCOs drop mortar rounds off target in theater- see what 38 lbs of high explosive will get you in the US.

John
 
allaroundhunter said:
Because law governing war says that you are not allowed to use expanding hollow points.... Don't confuse the what the military uses with what is the best option to civilians...
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You injure a soldier, it takes two to get him out of harms way. you kill that soldier, the other two can still fight.... atleast that was the thought process way back when.
 
While the wounding may be a true statement, it has never been a design function of any US weapon system. Some "genius" came up with the idea long after the introduction of the M16, and claimed wounding was a goal.

Not true: the report that led to the adoption of the M16 stressed its lethality. PLEASE follow the link if you'd like to put some old urban gunny legends to rest.

John
 
None other than John R. Lott brought it up the other day in an interview.

The trouble with the "three out of the battle now" theory is it assumes you are fighting a force that will stop to help the wounded. Even our forces are now instructed in Combat Lifesaver course to not render aid until the fight is done. And even if it's true.....ALL THREE eventually return.
 
And, the first known instance of this idea was some years after the introduction of the M16- which, if anyone bothers to read the link to the original document, was judged to have superior lethality to the 7.62x51mm M14.

John
 
Having to use the FMJ, if it is all you can get, beats leaving the gun at home. Just get some JHP when you can and don't sweat it. But this is the only time I would recommend it.
 
Not to change the subject, I picked up some 147 gr. fmj Flat Point 9mm. How would this round compare to hollow points?

I do have a couple hundred rounds of 115 gr. jhp, for carry use.

Just wondering,
 
I carry FMJ in both 9x18, 7.62x25, and 9x19

Not becuase I want to, but becuase it's illegal to posess expanding rounds here anywhere but in your home.

FMJ will stop a fight.. it wont be AS effective as a good HP but it will still put down the bad guy if you get the shots where they need to be.
 
FMJ vs JHP

As has already been stated, fmj are better than no bullets. It is also true You are responsible for every round fired, so my advice would be; know what is behind your intended target and act accordingly .
 
The Good

The good news is the "People's Republic of New Jersey" would't be able to charge you with using " DumDum" bullets if you should ever be unlucky enough to go there.:what:
 
R.W.Dale said:
I think the overpenatration bit is vastly overstated.
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From a Massad Ayoob article:

The New York Times exposed the following facts in its startling report on the matter:

“According to statistics released by the department, 15 innocent bystanders were struck by police officers using full metal jacket bullets during 1995 and 1996, the police said. Eight were hit directly, five were hit by bullets that had passed through other people and two were hit by bullets that had passed through objects,” stated the Times.

In other words, in rough numbers, 53 percent of these tragic occurrences were apparently missed shots, while 33 percent were “shoot-throughs” of violent felony suspects.
​

Empashis added. http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-g...ayoob-the-dangers-of-over-penetrating-bullets
 
I'm with what seems to be the majority opinion. FMJ are not my first choice for any caliber, but if its all you have then use it until you can find some good JHP.
 
The thing is, you have to assume ALL shots fired will overpenetrate. If I had a defensive load I thought was unlikely to completely traverse a human target under most circumstances, I wouldn't use it. And using New York is a pretty extreme example, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the world. The antis are always trying to convince everyone that the danger to innocent bystanders is great, but it really only happens in a small percentage of shootings. Rule number four always applies, in all shootings, in all places, forever and ever, amen.
 
Lj1941 said:
The good news is the "People's Republic of New Jersey" would't be able to charge you with using " DumDum" bullets if you should ever be unlucky enough to go there.:what:
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See that's kinda insidious. Everybody there is a lawyer and they sure want a buck one way or another. not really a rocket if you think about it
They'll sue you if you use a screwdriver, let alone a 9mm penetrator.
 
RedBowTies, you can do better than 9mm ball, and legally.

Check into Federal 124gr +P EFMJ ammo. Simply put, it is a quasi-hollowpoint that has a gilding-metal overlay on the front, so that it appears to be FMJ, and meets NJ legal criteria by definition.

It was introduced about ten years ago (time flies?) and when it became available I bought a case. Still have 800 rounds left, and have used it for carry in wintertime when miscreants are presumably clothed more heavily. The cap over the HP will prevent 'Premature Expansion' so is beneficial in causing grief to heavily clothed individuals.

It flies true, hits hard, and expands beautifully!

You might look into this a solution to your problem.
 
mljdeckard said:
And using New York is a pretty extreme example, it's one of the most densely populated areas in the world.
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Yeah, and a part of Utah resembling Tattooine is surely one of the least-densely populated! Most of us live somewhere in between and must make the best decision we can about how to best mitigate against overpenetration.
 
RedBowTies, you can do better than 9mm ball, and legally.

Check into Federal 124gr +P EFMJ ammo. Simply put, it is a quasi-hollowpoint that has a gilding-metal overlay on the front, so that it appears to be FMJ, and meets NJ legal criteria by definition.

It was introduced about ten years ago (time flies?) and when it became available I bought a case. Still have 800 rounds left, and have used it for carry in wintertime when miscreants are presumably clothed more heavily. The cap over the HP will prevent 'Premature Expansion' so is beneficial in causing grief to heavily clothed individuals.

It flies true, hits hard, and expands beautifully!

You might look into this a solution to your problem.
Click to expand...

If it expands, or is designed to expand rather.. it falls under the legal definition in NJ of a "Dumdum" round and is therefore illegal.

There are people in the who are trying to say rounds like that and ballistic tips are legal becuase there is no actual hollow cavity in the round... sad thing is the law doesn't just say hollow point but in fact says hollow point AND dumdum rounds.
 
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