FNAR opinions?

[checkmyswag]

I'm considering 308 semi auto rifles.

How about the FNAR? Advantages over the other options?

Other options are M1A, PTR and FAL.

 

[briansmithwins]

It's not a military pattern rifle like the ones you mentioned. It's not designed to be easily field stripped w/o tools, for example.

If you want to use optics the best 762 NATO rifle is the SCAR 17 by FN. That is a military pattern rifle designed for us with optics with a adjustable gas regulator, free floated barrel, and is completely ambidextrous.

BSW

 

[checkmyswag]

I agree the SCAR is great, but it's also 2X the cost.

 

[Jackal]

Fnar is sub moa accurate, pistol gripped version of a modern Browning BAR. My friend has one and its the most accurate semi 308 Ive ever used. Downside is the funky magazine and lack of easy takedown.

 

[checkmyswag]

Reliable?

 

[SuperNaut]

I love mine, I've had it for years and it has been 100% reliable and scary accurate. The two biggest cons are:

1. It is heavy
2. Magazines are rare and expensive.

Let me give #2 the proper emphasis: You will never find magazines, but in the off chance that you do, you will pay ~10-15 times what AR10 guys pay.

 

[blueskyjaunte]

I'll echo #2 above.

I saw outstanding accuracy out of one during a recent rifle class.

Also, don't even think of suppressing one. The back pressure will dismantle the bolt. I've seen it happen.

 

[Jackal]

Magazines are available for about $50, about double the retail price of AR10 mags.

 

[Trent]

Reliable?

I've put about 500 rounds out of mine and have yet to have any jams.

Cleaning them is a real bitch, though. It's like a 52 step process to take one down to a stripped bolt, and you are still nowhere near fully disassembled. The factory recommends returning to FN every 2000 rounds for "proper service", which includes checking parts for wear, etc.

They really DO stand behind that gun, but be aware of what you are getting in to. It's a precision rifle that will put rounds on target very accurately - and very fast - but it's not something that will stand up to a great deal of abuse.

The upside is they don't get very dirty, so don't really need cleaned that often. I just do the bore on mine. Stripped it down after 100 rounds and I'm like "yup, now I gotta put it all back together again', didn't need so much as a wipedown.

Think of it more like a PSG-1, vs. an H&K 91/G3.

And ... mentioning PSG-1's, I'd put my FN AR up against a PSG-1 any day of the week on a 20 shot group.

 

[DPris]

It's a precision shooter & a good one, it is not a battle rifle.
Denis

 

[leadcounsel]

I was seriously debating one, but it goes back to the age old curiosity as to why companies fail to use already available mags.

FN FNAR could easily have been designed to use the FN FAL magazine. No added benefit to making a new one, other than requiring the purchase of same, which will turn off some buyers. Why risk it?

 

[Crosswire3]

I had a FNAR and wanted to love the thing, but once I started building LR-308s it was a no-brainer and they FNAR got the boot.

 

[HJ857]

I like the fact that the mags are really long and allow you to easily seat bullets to pretty much any depth. If you want to seat to the lands, you can do that with space left over.

During the last panic mags were impossible to find, they're widely available now though.

I suppose it's a matter of preference or what you're used to, I don't think mine is all that heavy compared to other similar rifles. It's not much heavier than a AR15 Grendel set up I had a few years ago.

It is more involved than an AR to strip, but it's not like its brain surgery. It's simple enough and much like a semi auto shotgun. I've done mine four times now and each time I felt that the rifle wasn't dirty enough to warrant a strip down, in that way it is nothing like an AR. It simply does not get dirty.

Also interesting about the FNAR, it doesn't look like an AR at all, but it shoulders and feels a great deal like an AR.

There is another thread from not long ago that has some good info and photos.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=747459

 

[briansmithwins]

I agree the SCAR is great, but it's also 2X the cost.

If you're trying to do cheap .308 ain't the right game. The days of cheap surplus are long over.

BSW

 

[browningguy]

It's an excellent precision rifle, magazines cost $50, so what, it's not like you need 100 of them. Mine is a light 20" model.

 

[arizona98tj]

Let me give #2 the proper emphasis: You will never find magazines, but in the off chance that you do, you will pay ~10-15 times what AR10 guys pay.

Wow....really? I just checked Brownell's, the first from a Google search. They are in stock, $60 for a 20 rounder. Next on the list, MidwayUSA. They had 5, 10, and 20 rounders in stock. They wanted $54 for the 20 rounder. Went to Gunbroker, first one on the list was $50 for a 20 rounder. (they had 72 different sales going for them). I stopped looking at that point.

I have the 20" fluted heavy barrel model. I bought it gently used. It wouldn't make a 1 MOA group. FNH put a new barrel on it for me....at their cost.

Can you really get a quality AR-10 magazine for $4 to $5?

 

[SuperNaut]

During the last panic mags were impossible to find, they're widely available now though.

It's looking that way! I won't say how far I drove or how much I paid to get mags during the last panic.

So, I amend my earlier #2 to "mags are expensive."

 

[barnbwt]

Think of it more like a PSG-1, vs. an H&K 91/G3.

And ... mentioning PSG-1's, I'd put my FN AR up against a PSG-1 any day of the week on a 20 shot group.

Haha, you said "FN AR," cuz they have those, too, now

That's actually a really good comparison rifle; the PSG-1. Whenever someone asks what the heck a 20rnd mag-fed 308 semi-auto 1MOA rifle is for, I'll refer them to that (heck if I know what the PSG-1 was meant for, other than padding H&K's bottom line* ). Unlike the PSG-1, the FNAR will readily keep shots within 1MOA; not that I or hardly anyone else would have the chance to find out first hand, but the PSG-1 supposedly is only good for 1.25-1.5MOA in practice, which ain't that impressive considering the price tag and competition of the day. And unlike its G3 counterpart, I doubt the PSG was really built to withstand true conscript abuse like most of the FNAR's 308 competitors, so in that they are probably somewhat similar as well.

The PSG-1 will get nasty a heck of a lot faster than the FNAR, that's for sure

TCB

*Just how many wacky guns did the Germans pay to develop in response to the Munich attack, anyway? P7, WA2000, PSG-1...

 

[bikemutt]

I had the Winchester branded version, it was a good shooter for sure, heavy though, and an involved field strip. I sold it and bought a SCAR 17 which suits me better.

I never understood how FN got the AR in that rifle's name, it bears virtually no characteristics in common with either AR15 or AR10 pattern rifles.

 

[B!ngo]

I came close to buying one as my .308 semi auto battle rifle type of thing (that will likely only ever see the range). I got the whiff of the takedown (actually that's not the proper term in this case; better said it's 'disassembly') procedures for it then got really concerned when I watched a few disassembly videos.
FN derived it from the older but well designed and great shooting BAR hunting (not the auto) rifle and focused on reusing the design far more than standardizing mags, making it field ready, etc.
I suspect it's an excellent police/SWAT design which will be fired only modestly, be in the hands of an armorer and won't see harsh field or battle duty. It's very accurate and when well cared for it's durable as well.
But it's not a battle rifle, was not designed to be one and never can be. To be fair, someone like myself will never 'need' a battle rifle but if that is something I (or the OP) wants to own, the FNAR just isn't it.
B

 

[barnbwt]

"I never understood how FN got the AR in that rifle's name, it bears virtually no characteristics in common with either AR15 or AR10 pattern rifles."
BAR=Browning Autoloading Rifle (I think; the "Automatic Rifle" was the monstrous 1918)
FN=Fabrique Nationale (Herstal)
AR (as in the rifle)= Armalite, not "Assault Rifle" (happy coincidence)
FNAR=FN(H)(B)AR; FNH didn't want Browning mucking around in their acronym, nor Armalite for that matter

I think they should rename it the PSR-1 or TPF-1 (Tireur de Précision Fusil=Precision Shooter rifle=PräzisionsSchützenGewehr )

I suspect it's an excellent police/SWAT design which will be fired only modestly, be in the hands of an armorer and won't see harsh field or battle duty. It's very accurate and when well cared for it's durable as well.
But it's not a battle rifle, was not designed to be one and never can be. To be fair, someone like myself will never 'need' a battle rifle but if that is something I (or the OP) wants to own, the FNAR just isn't it.

This is a good summary of the rifle's qualities, as well as the reluctance many have in buying one.

-You likely won't need to ever take the thing apart for service (at least the vast majority of users that aren't firing thousands of rounds won't), but the process is unforgivably complicated (actually it isn't, but you do need to be organized and know what you are doing, same as any other armorer-type task).
-You won't ever feel like toting around a 20rnd 308 semi-auto anything all day long, but the weight is too much to bear.
-You won't ever shoot more than a few dozen 1MOA-precision targets during an hour of practice (or ever) without wearing out the barrel or your wallet, but the magazines are too expensive.
-You wouldn't ever use them because it'd be a waste of the rifle's accuracy, but the sight rail is not configured for iron sights
-You'd be too pissed off to shoot straight if you broke your telescopic sight, but the rifle has no real provisions for back up irons

In short, most of the criticism of the rifle stems from people wanting it to do more than a precision rifle is meant for. Namely, they want it to be an infantry rifle like in the video games or movies, when the barrel length/weight itself precludes that role more than the action design. My suggestion, is to buy the less-precise but more versatile knock around military-pattern rifle of your choice and move on. Or, spend a few G's and chase the elusive "do all" rifle that is both a precision shooter and can be used to pound in stakes. 1MOA accuracy is wasted on iron sights or red dot sights, as is a full length barrel on something meant for iron sight distances (<300 yards for most shooters I would guess), as is a heavy barrel for close-range non-sustained 308 fire.

TCB

 

[Trent]

Haha, you said "FN AR," cuz they have those, too, now

That's actually a really good comparison rifle; the PSG-1. Whenever someone asks what the heck a 20rnd mag-fed 308 semi-auto 1MOA rifle is for, I'll refer them to that (heck if I know what the PSG-1 was meant for, other than padding H&K's bottom line* ).

Yeah no doubt. That's why I always bring that up. Pretty much everyone who has ever played a modern first person shooter wargame (which includes most males below the age of 45) will immediately recognize what a PSG-1 is. The "holy grail" of sniper rifles.

I've actually laid my hands on a authentic PSG-1 before and DAMN near bought one, back in 2006. The seller was from a different state (we met at Knob Creek), and he flaked out at the last minute.

The reason he flaked out is because I asked to shoot it to confirm that it could hold 1 MOA at 300 yards before I dropped 11K on the thing.

Unlike the PSG-1, the FNAR will readily keep shots within 1MOA; not that I or hardly anyone else would have the chance to find out first hand, but the PSG-1 supposedly is only good for 1.25-1.5MOA in practice, which ain't that impressive considering the price tag and competition of the day. And unlike its G3 counterpart, I doubt the PSG was really built to withstand true conscript abuse like most of the FNAR's 308 competitors, so in that they are probably somewhat similar as well.

See above. Lol!

With handloads my FN-AR will easily hold sub 1 MOA groups. The best load I've developed for it consistently holds .5 MOA. It's not quite as good as my precision bolt guns (my 300 win mag holds 0.21 MOA), but still, .5 MOA is nothing to sneeze at considering I've got 20 rounds on tap for successive trigger pulls... vs. 3 bolt action....

Another worthy comparison is FN AR vs. SCAR 17. I own both, and on accuracy the FN AR beats it hands down.

On *practical* (positional) shooting they are neck and neck. I ran both back to back in a rifle match - same ammo, same shooter, same conditions. The FN-AR and SCAR scored within a couple of points of each other. The SCAR was better standing by a fair margin, they were about even on sitting, but the FN-AR smoked it on prone.

If I were to choose one or the other, I'd have to consider "am I more likely to shoot supported or on the move." If I need to take shots standing or without support, I'd want the SCAR. If I were taking shots supported (prone, sitting, etc) I'd choose the FNAR.

You can NOT get the best of BOTH worlds in any rifle. I've shot enough rifle matches to know THAT much.

What the FNAR brings to the table is the *ability* to shoot positionally (practical application) with the precision that normally was reserved for dedicated bolt guns.

It's not a bad all around gun, in fact, it's probably one of the best guns on the market right now for the price point. I'd sure as heck grab it over an M1A or G3/CETME.

The PSG-1 will get nasty a heck of a lot faster than the FNAR, that's for sure

It's the exact same mechanism as a G3/H&K91/CETME, just tighter tolerances on timing. The same shortcomings of the standard delayed blowback H&K platforms apply. (E.g. it "craps where it eats"). They borrowed the roller design of the German MG42/FG42, but instead of having a recoil impulse from a booster cone/moving barrel, they cut flutes in the chamber to exert backpressure. Unfortunately that means it dumps a HUGE amount of carbon deposit right directly on to all of the moving parts responsible for chambering the next round... (unlike the MG42 boosted recoil impulse - it stays pretty damn clean all things considered. All the gas has exhausted before the barrel reaches the unlock point where the bolt can continue moving backwards).

I would have to think that reliability and accuracy would both suffer a little as it dirties up. Reliability as it has to be tighter tolerances, and accuracy because .. well, it craps where it eats.

This isn't to say that there aren't some highly accurate H&K guns. The SL-8 I have ranks right the heck up there on what I'd consider a "precision semi-auto".

*Just how many wacky guns did the Germans pay to develop in response to the Munich attack, anyway? P7, WA2000, PSG-1...

I tell you what, I'd *love* to get my greedy hands on a WA2000.


EDITED to add....

For those of you talking about "308 battle rifles" ask yourself what is really the definition of a battle rifle? I view it as a semi-auto / full auto shoulder fired rifle using full power loads (308/30-06/8mm/etc). It's not an LMG, it's not an assault rifle (those shoot intermediary cartridges), it's not a hunting rifle (it holds > 5 rounds)..

If I were to classify the FN-AR I'd probably put it down as a dedicated marksman rifle, similar to the SCAR sniper variant or M21. It's more of a battle rifle than a bolt gun, more of a sniper rifle than a battle rifle... kind of in that gray area in between.

What I can say first hand is the FN AR *can* be used in practical positional shooting to great effect. In positional shooting it held toe to toe against the SCAR, FS2000, AR15, SL-8, and others I own and shoot... and has proven to be very reliable and not at all picky about what ammo I feed it.

Like I said earlier if the world went to hell and I had to pick up a rifle and use it... it'd be a difficult choice between that FN AR and the SCAR 17. The SCAR isn't QUITE as accurate, and I know that FN AR would get me out to a half mile easily. Although, up close I'd rather have the SCAR with a reflex site. (But an FNAR with a QD scope base and reflex sight in the bag is a good choice too lol)

Just can't get it all in one package at the same time.

 

[barnbwt]

On *practical* (positional) shooting they are neck and neck. I ran both back to back in a rifle match - same ammo, same shooter, same conditions. The FN-AR and SCAR scored within a couple of points of each other. The SCAR was better standing by a fair margin, they were about even on sitting, but the FN-AR smoked it on prone.

I must say I'm really surprised to hear this. I've not had hardly any time with a SCAR, but it at least seemed 'handier' and whatall, so I figured it'd be markedly easier to run in practice. I still imagine it'd be a nicer gun to have to tote all day (still not great, seeing as we're still talking a 308 semi auto), but it's interesting to hear the FNAR's size and more awkward "markman" rifle proportions don't seem to have too terrible an impact on performance at the end of the day.

Considering how one rifle was optimized for mobile tasks, the other rooftops/deer stands as the case may be, you'd think their performance in each would draw starker contrast. Maybe humans are adaptable enough creatures that our guns don't need to be designed for a niche within a niche

I'd still rather slam a SCAR onto a bipod going prone than my FNAR; and that's why I'll never do any over-top trench-charges with it . It's got no bayonet lug, either, making it even less practical for daily use

TCB

 

[barnbwt]

I tell you what, I'd *love* to get my greedy hands on a WA2000.

I kid you not, there was one on Gunbroker like back in 2010; 40,000$ and a reserve. Walther sure did a great job wasting everyone's money on that boondoggle . Unlike the PSG-1, they did at least chamber it in 7.5 Swiss (ironically, the then-in-service STGW57 supposedly gets the same ~1MOA as these dedicated offerings). If you want one, I'd just buy a SCAR and have someone trick it out to look like the Walther; mechanically they're basically the same.

This isn't to say that there aren't some highly accurate H&K guns. The SL-8 I have ranks right the heck up there on what I'd consider a "precision semi-auto".

Well, the SL8 is essentially a SCAR itself (or rather, the other way around) and not terribly different from the fundamental operating principle of the FNAR, so that's not unexpected. It's not a 308, though (why didn't H&K ever make a 308 G36? ). Super cool gun; I recently bought a G36 parts kit which I plan on making a sheet-metal aluminum receiver for (bye-bye, alleged 'wandering zero'). It's comical how little is metal in the thing; it's sorta like one of those fire-proof paper hats, as far as its design (super lightweight, but still a fairly large, bulky rifle at the end of the day )

TCB

 

[TIMC]

Get an FN AR if you want one, I'm sure it will be a fine rifle. Don't buy all the hogwash of this or that is the best. There are fine sub moa shooting versions of everything you and everyone else has listed. I have owned most of what has been listed at one time or another and my preference is the plain old AR-10. With hand loads I have found them all to be tack drivers but there are just more goodies for the AR-10 and a nice version can be had for about $1000-$1200 if you look around and willing to but used. The Scar is nice but I would rather save the cash for optics. All boils down to what makes that gun funny bone tingle when you see it. Buy what you want and enjoy!