Found on Glock Talk Forum:Slide Slam on 1911
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Ashes to Ashes...Junk to Junk
Dave said:
Tuner: you have said over and over that you do not do high end guns and prefer to turn junk into better junk. Since you are not real, I can imagine anything I want about you and the Old Fuff.
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Ahhhhhh...I see, Cap'n! You is simply imaginin' things. I said that I don't BUILD'em. Didn't said that I never used'em. I had a chance once to spend a whole summer with a SwenGun...with permission to shoot it all I wanted to.
I did...but I didn't let the slide go on empty...
Several others have fallen into my grimy little mitts...including a strange one one with a capital
"Y" on the slide. Nice pistoles'...but I'd be too scared to carry one lest I scratch it up.
See there bernie? Me'n Dave been pokin' each other for nigh on two years.
Ya gotta admit that it keeps these technical discussions from gettin' dull.
Aight alla yeww birds! On topic! Bernie did make a good point.
Dave said:
Tuner: you have said over and over that you do not do high end guns and prefer to turn junk into better junk. Since you are not real, I can imagine anything I want about you and the Old Fuff.
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Ahhhhhh...I see, Cap'n! You is simply imaginin' things. I said that I don't BUILD'em. Didn't said that I never used'em. I had a chance once to spend a whole summer with a SwenGun...with permission to shoot it all I wanted to.
I did...but I didn't let the slide go on empty...
Several others have fallen into my grimy little mitts...including a strange one one with a capital"Y" on the slide.
Nice pistoles'...but I'd be too scared to carry one lest I scratch it up.See there bernie? Me'n Dave been pokin' each other for nigh on two years.
Ya gotta admit that it keeps these technical discussions from gettin' dull.
Aight alla yeww birds! On topic! Bernie did make a good point.
Jammer Six
member
The Language of Real Dudes
Uh, well, ok, Dave.
I read what you wrote, not what you meant to say.
It's an issue with the internet. You have to say exactly what you mean, and when you say something like this, especially when you refer to it twice, saying that you locked the slide back, locked the safety on, and then you refer to it again, saying that you drop the safety, and then drop the slide, it sounds like either you have a highly modified weapon that allows the safety to engage with the slide locked back, or you've never done any of this stuff, and you're making it up as you go along.
The only other choice is that what you wrote isn't what you meant to say, and that would be the worst choice, because then everything you've posted about 1911s would be in doubt, because it might not be what you meant to say.
Never eliminate the chance that I've made a mistake, but I can only read what you write, Dave.
It does bring up an interesting point, though.
Do you have this kind of problem in your class?
Uh, well, ok, Dave.
I read what you wrote, not what you meant to say.
It's an issue with the internet. You have to say exactly what you mean, and when you say something like this, especially when you refer to it twice, saying that you locked the slide back, locked the safety on, and then you refer to it again, saying that you drop the safety, and then drop the slide, it sounds like either you have a highly modified weapon that allows the safety to engage with the slide locked back, or you've never done any of this stuff, and you're making it up as you go along.
The only other choice is that what you wrote isn't what you meant to say, and that would be the worst choice, because then everything you've posted about 1911s would be in doubt, because it might not be what you meant to say.
Never eliminate the chance that I've made a mistake, but I can only read what you write, Dave.
It does bring up an interesting point, though.
Do you have this kind of problem in your class?
Jammer Six
member
Happy, happy
Happy, happy, joy, joy.
Happy, happy, joy, joy.
bountyhunter
member
I recommend we have Tuner put up a sticky with all the relevant facts about the pros and cons of the two subjects I see causing the most pissing and screaming:
1) Empty slide drops, what it does.
2) Why some people hold the trigger tightly back when they slide drop on a full magazine loading a 1911 to prevent an inertia trip AD and protect the sear/hammer faces from inertia chatter.
People could just read the info and decide for themselves what to do.
Then we can go back to arguing about the really important matter: why the .40 is actually a more effective defense round than the .45 when you add up all the for and against evidence.
(I will be ducking under the table now)
1) Empty slide drops, what it does.
2) Why some people hold the trigger tightly back when they slide drop on a full magazine loading a 1911 to prevent an inertia trip AD and protect the sear/hammer faces from inertia chatter.
People could just read the info and decide for themselves what to do.
Then we can go back to arguing about the really important matter: why the .40 is actually a more effective defense round than the .45 when you add up all the for and against evidence.
(I will be ducking under the table now)
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Oh Lordy...
Jammer...you're nuts. I know...It's a Ranger thing though, and I forgive ya.
Bountyhunter...I'd be happy to do that if I could think of a single item to put on the "pro" side of the argument... but I just can't. Well...other than once or twice...*correctly done*... to check for hammer follow after a tweak.
bigjim...hee heh heh heh
Jammer...you're nuts. I know...It's a Ranger thing though, and I forgive ya.
Bountyhunter...I'd be happy to do that if I could think of a single item to put on the "pro" side of the argument...
but I just can't. Well...other than once or twice...*correctly done*... to check for hammer follow after a tweak.bigjim...hee heh heh heh
bountyhunter
member
Yeah, that one would be easy to write because there is no sensible rebuttal. In that sense it would be a "tutorial", that is just educating the masses about why it isn't a good idea.
The other one about holding the trigger back when loading a 1911 is a real issue. Old time bulls eye shooters all did it to protect the knife-edge sear face from chipping. People who serve as RO's generally will come through the screen and grab you if you even suggest loading a gun with your finger on the trigger. I only have one 1911 where I do it (2 pound trigger) and I am careful. I'm careful to keep the gun pointed down range and careful to keep my body on the line of sight between my right hand and the RO when I drop slide.
Dave Sample
member
Bill Z called me today and said I screwed it up not once, but twice! I have over worked this old badly cracked marble one too many times and I must apologize. I will edit it forthwith. I have seen several Swensons and that is the reason my pal Bill Bidwell(The Jawbone) started building his own 1911. I guess the ones I saw were early ones becuase they were very crude, but effective. That man could make 'em run! The Bodycote Diamond Black Tungsten DLC on EAGLE 1 is very hard to scratch as it Rockwells at about 93. So I would let you run ONE magazine through it. You could slam the slide home too, and I wouldn't even care!
Jammer: The Big Guy threw the mold away when He made me so please do not wish to be like me , ever!
Riley: The folks I worked for in the 1911 field would never waste one minute of their time on a Gun Forum. I do not do that work anymore for anyone that is not a very good client for many years. I refer other people to Don Williams, who likes me or to Chuck Rogers, who doesn't. I know that these two will do a good job at a fair price and they are feeding their families with their work. I have three web sites but Tuner gets really upset when I put up the links so you will just have to find me some other way. I spent today in my little shop doing two single action tune ups and had a productive day. I got the two of them about 75% done and will finish them tomorrow and ship them home Monday. I do things to those guns that the guys don't do, just like I did the with the 1911's. One thing is for sure. I do not belong on any forums.
Jammer: The Big Guy threw the mold away when He made me so please do not wish to be like me , ever!
Riley: The folks I worked for in the 1911 field would never waste one minute of their time on a Gun Forum. I do not do that work anymore for anyone that is not a very good client for many years. I refer other people to Don Williams, who likes me or to Chuck Rogers, who doesn't. I know that these two will do a good job at a fair price and they are feeding their families with their work. I have three web sites but Tuner gets really upset when I put up the links so you will just have to find me some other way. I spent today in my little shop doing two single action tune ups and had a productive day. I got the two of them about 75% done and will finish them tomorrow and ship them home Monday. I do things to those guns that the guys don't do, just like I did the with the 1911's. One thing is for sure. I do not belong on any forums.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Those Senior Moments
Aw HellesBelles Cap'n. If folks held my feet to the fire ever' dang time that I
screwed up and wrote what I though I was thinkin', I wouldn't have any feet...
Aw HellesBelles Cap'n. If folks held my feet to the fire ever' dang time that I
screwed up and wrote what I though I was thinkin', I wouldn't have any feet...
Jammer Six
member
What's your point?
Well, yes, but I have it on very good authority that I'm also a Class Alpha Stud Puppy, not to mention extremely handsome.
Well, yes, but I have it on very good authority that I'm also a Class Alpha Stud Puppy, not to mention extremely handsome.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Alpha Stud Puppy
ROFL...Yeah, yeah, yeah...My darlin' tells me that I'm 6 feet and 3 inches of twisted blue steel and walkin' romance...but she's supposed ta say things like that. Can't trust it when wives tell ya that kinda stuff...The wanna keep ya pumped up so you'll take out the trash and check noises at 0300. 
Rangers...
Dave...I don't get upset over you postin' a link. Now, just walkin' in, postin' a link and jumpin' back out without sayin' jump, squat, hallelujah or kiss my grits
does gain a little negative attention though. Post what you want to, Cap'n.
No harm, no foul on this end.
Alpha Class Stud Puppy... *grooooaaannnnnn*
ROFL...Yeah, yeah, yeah...My darlin' tells me that I'm 6 feet and 3 inches of twisted blue steel and walkin' romance...but she's supposed ta say things like that.
Can't trust it when wives tell ya that kinda stuff...The wanna keep ya pumped up so you'll take out the trash and check noises at 0300. Rangers...
Dave...I don't get upset over you postin' a link. Now, just walkin' in, postin' a link and jumpin' back out without sayin' jump, squat, hallelujah or kiss my grits
does gain a little negative attention though. Post what you want to, Cap'n.
No harm, no foul on this end.
Alpha Class Stud Puppy...
*grooooaaannnnnn*Dave Sample
member
Some six shooters of mine. And who the heck is that with "Dusty" (Roy Roger's Junior?) Looks like it might be Dave!
Bountyhunter (and others who might be interested) ...
The Old Fuff admits that he’s a little elderly to engage in shooting matches that also double for track meets. My observations concerning holding the trigger while dropping the slide on an UNLOADED pistol seemed to be reasonable, considering that many IPSC shooters and other combat gamers use pistols with trigger pulls that are as light, or even lighter then those found on bullseye target pistols. Last I knew the legal limit under NRA rules was 3 ½ pounds on a softball .45 and 4 pounds on a hardball gun - neither of which is carried in, or used from a holster.
I would hope that given the certainty of extra-light trigger pulls, a knowledgeable range officer would allow a competitor to either hold the trigger back while lowering the slide on a pistol that both the R.O. and competitor had verified was clear and unloaded; or as an alternative would allow the competitor to hold the hammer spur with the tip of his thumb - again after a visual inspection by both individuals had confirmed that the pistol was unloaded. Apparently this is not the case.
On reflection I will withdraw both suggestions and in its place advocate that competitors should follow the rules, procedures and spirit of the game they choose to participate in.
Still, I remember an incident at a match I attended some years back. A competitor, who was also a law enforcement officer, was having trouble with repeated instances of his hammer following down to half-cock. At the end of the stage he cleared his pistol and walked back to where a number of others were standing and said that he couldn’t understand what the trouble was ... and that he had an identical trigger pull on the gun he carried on the job. I inspected his malfunctioning .45 and estimated that the pull was around 3 pounds or less.
I don’t generally handle or use 1911 pattern pistols with trigger pulls in this range, but on those occasions when I do, I lower (not drop) the slide while holding the trigger back - provided the chamber is unloaded. If I am at a shooting range I drop the slide to chamber a cartridge while holding the trigger back - the gun of course is pointed downrange. This allows me to hold the gun with both hands and better control it if there is an unexpected discharge.
Others obviously do things differently - and that is their prerogative. Anyone who is following this thread is free to make their own choices, and that's the way it should be. However, an option that isn’t brought up for discussion represents limiting the number of alternatives the reader can pick from, and I think that would be contrary to what this forum’s purpose is.
The Old Fuff admits that he’s a little elderly to engage in shooting matches that also double for track meets. My observations concerning holding the trigger while dropping the slide on an UNLOADED pistol seemed to be reasonable, considering that many IPSC shooters and other combat gamers use pistols with trigger pulls that are as light, or even lighter then those found on bullseye target pistols. Last I knew the legal limit under NRA rules was 3 ½ pounds on a softball .45 and 4 pounds on a hardball gun - neither of which is carried in, or used from a holster.
I would hope that given the certainty of extra-light trigger pulls, a knowledgeable range officer would allow a competitor to either hold the trigger back while lowering the slide on a pistol that both the R.O. and competitor had verified was clear and unloaded; or as an alternative would allow the competitor to hold the hammer spur with the tip of his thumb - again after a visual inspection by both individuals had confirmed that the pistol was unloaded. Apparently this is not the case.
On reflection I will withdraw both suggestions and in its place advocate that competitors should follow the rules, procedures and spirit of the game they choose to participate in.
Still, I remember an incident at a match I attended some years back. A competitor, who was also a law enforcement officer, was having trouble with repeated instances of his hammer following down to half-cock. At the end of the stage he cleared his pistol and walked back to where a number of others were standing and said that he couldn’t understand what the trouble was ... and that he had an identical trigger pull on the gun he carried on the job. I inspected his malfunctioning .45 and estimated that the pull was around 3 pounds or less.
I don’t generally handle or use 1911 pattern pistols with trigger pulls in this range, but on those occasions when I do, I lower (not drop) the slide while holding the trigger back - provided the chamber is unloaded. If I am at a shooting range I drop the slide to chamber a cartridge while holding the trigger back - the gun of course is pointed downrange. This allows me to hold the gun with both hands and better control it if there is an unexpected discharge.
Others obviously do things differently - and that is their prerogative. Anyone who is following this thread is free to make their own choices, and that's the way it should be. However, an option that isn’t brought up for discussion represents limiting the number of alternatives the reader can pick from, and I think that would be contrary to what this forum’s purpose is.
F15H
member
I won't drop the slide on an empty chamber BUT I WILL create many mini explosions with every pull of the trigger??? IT'S A FREAKING TOOL USE IT.
If you're worried about dropping the slide, hammer or whatever on an empty chamber You should just put your 1911 in the safe and leave it there and go buy yourself a wheel gun!!
If you're worried about dropping the slide, hammer or whatever on an empty chamber You should just put your 1911 in the safe and leave it there and go buy yourself a wheel gun!!
Andrew Wyatt
Member
I don't worry about it. I just don't do it.
Look, when I chose the 1911 for my holster pistol, I did that knowing what its strengths and limitations were. The nice trigger, thumb and grip safeties, and the size and shape of the grip are all strengths. as far as limitations go, having the slide drop on an empty chamber cause premature wear is basically a non issue.
Quite frankly, If I was a fence sitter, I'd take Tuner's view simply because he explains himself is a significantly less condescending manner, and he explains himself.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Thread
This one is all over the place on forums everywhere! It's providing me with valuable information and I'm takin' notes as hard as my li'l mouse will cut and paste. So far, I've got a list of about 125 names/nics that I WON'T be buyin' a gun from unless that puppy is off-the-scale cheap!
Gents...Slam'em if ya got'em!
This one is all over the place on forums everywhere! It's providing me with valuable information and I'm takin' notes as hard as my li'l mouse will cut and paste. So far, I've got a list of about 125 names/nics that I WON'T be buyin' a gun from unless that puppy is off-the-scale cheap!
Gents...Slam'em if ya got'em!
wally
Member
Ah, but if you haven't, you will -- first time you have a mag that fails to lock the slide back!
If doing so damages the trigger, I claim that defines having an unsafe trigger!
--wally.
Dave Sample
member
Nice post from Old Fuff. Thanks. I always enjoy it when you make sense and try to tell the truth. Tuner! Put me on your list for sure! You would not like to have one of those old junky slide slammers like I build.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
Well, considering that my finger is probably on the trigger at the time, the trigger won't have any problems with sear bounce.
also, I generally fix or replace magazines that don't lock the slide back.
Zach S
Member
"7. (A, B, and C) After assembling the pistol, check its function as follows:
Remove Magazine. Pull slide back fully and let it go. It should fly forward and close over the empty chamber. The hammer should stay cocked. <snip>"
So, Colt did have it in writing, however on the top of the next page in my manual it says:
"IMPORTANT: Do these checks only after you strip and assemble the Pistol. Do not slam the slide forward at any other time, except when loading. If you excersise the slide, control it with your hand."
(Colt's emphasis, not mine)
Of course, its an old manual. Rev. F, Sep. 97.
I dont think I've had it open before today, lol.
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