Found these 2 firearms in a house - no kidding need help identifying

[anothernewb]

For real, I'm doing a remodel project on a 1952 house. knocking out a few walls for an "open room" concept. Anyway, I'm working on the upper story where some work's been done before. I knock out a wall that's a blind section from the old knee wall. In it I find these:

Looks like a luger, I wonder if it's authentic and from what age?


















It's pretty rough. but considering where it's been stuck for god knows how long. I guess i'd consider it pristine. The trigger is pretty rusty, too.

How much can I clean this thing before I start destroying it's value. for that matter - how the heck do I even value it????



I also find this savage. I know nothing about this at all.

 

[jerkface11]

http://www.lugerforum.com/lugermarkings/proof-2.html

Don't clean that luger.

 

[Al Thompson]

Ditto, maybe wipe with an oily cloth, but don't do anything else.

 

[anothernewb]

thanks for the link. the proof marks show it as 1914-1918, so it fits the 1916 date stamp on the top.

This is kinda cool. does this mean it's an authentic German unit and not a replica? Like all lugers, I wonder if this may have been war used...

I wonder what the large scrollwork on the rear of the receiver is

 

[jerkface11]

I think that's the DWM mark.

 

[Aaron Baker]

I should preface this post by saying that I have no particular expertise, and that you should definitely value any other person's expert opinion over mine.

I know nothing about the Luger at all.

I also don't know anything specific about the Savage, but had some questions. Can you determine a caliber? Does it have any caliber markings, or can you examine the chamber by eyeball?

It reminds me of a much fancier version of an old Western Field single-shot .22 bolt action rifle that I have. From doing my research on the Western Field (which was a store-branded Mossberg), I figured out that mine was a 1930s manufacture, and that there was no federal law requiring serial numbers at that time. I don't see a serial number on that Savage either. Serial numbers weren't required until the Gun Control Act of 1968, but were fairly common on more expensive rifles well before that. Lots of single shot .22s didn't have them, though. It appears to be the same sort of simple mechanism of the single shot .22 that I have.

That would lead me to believe that unless that particular model of Savage has a lot of collector's value based on its rarity or name cachet, that it probably isn't particularly valuable. However, it's very cool. They made a lot of those single-shot boys rifles in .22, and they're still neat to use for something like squirrel hunting even today.

Aaron

 

[jerkface11]

They made a lot of those single-shot boys rifles in .22, and they're still neat to use for something like squirrel hunting even today.

If that gun was mine and still had a good bore that would be a go to squirrel rifle.

 

[anothernewb]

Savage is a 22lr found this as well:

 

[Dmath]

Conceivably the Luger is a fake, but considering where you found it, and guessing that it was stashed in there (by some misguided soul) many decades ago, you'd have to believe that no fakery was ever intended.
I love Lugers, but I am no expert. That's almost certainly a DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken) of the WW1 era, as the 1916 suggests. Track down some Luger lovers -- knowledgeable ones, unlike me -- and see what they say. Even with that tad of rust, my guess is it's worth a lot more than $1,000, maybe twice that. Don't do anything to either the gun or the grips. Do look down the bore and see if it's pitted. If not, that adds to the value.

 

[rcmodel]

No, it is not a fake.
No possibility of it in fact.

The gun is probably worth somewhere in the $1,200 - $1,500 range.

I will go against the grain and advise you to clean it.
You have to get the rust stopped to prevent further damage.

Use bore solvent, and cotton patches to rub off all the rust you can get off.
Do Not use anything abrasive such as sandpaper or something!

You can use 0000 Extra-Fine Steel wool and oil to get the rust.
Just don't rub long & hard in one place.

Clean the grips with lemon oil furniture polish and an oil toothbrush to get the mold stopped.

Rc

 

[Jim K]

The Luger is authentic and appears not only correct, but with matching numbers. It is in quite decent shape and everything is consistent with the 1916 date. I would field strip, clean and oil it to preserve it. It might bring as much as $1500 or more retail. If you don't know how to clean that gun, find someone who knows how so it isn't damaged.

Note that by "clean", I mean patches and a cloth with gun cleaner, NOT a steel brush or sandpaper!!

Jim

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Do clean and oil. Do not use abrasives.

What will kill collector value is to try to re-blue the metal or refinish the grips. That would take it from the category of collector's item to just another old gun (an old Luger to be sure, but will whack collectors value badly).

 

[jerkface11]

The Luger would put me in a dilemma. Sell it and have an easy $1000 or keep it and have a Luger.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Great finds I love finding things in houses while remodeling.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I don't have any expertise to add to the above on how to properly restore those weapons, but it wasn't 100% clear to me from your OP whether you are remodeling your own house or someone else's. In case it is the latter I would ask the home's owner about them before doing anything.

 

[dbmjr1]

Who's house did you find them in? Did they know that the firearms were there? Do they have any clues to the ownership?

If they are yours, . . .

I would carefully disassemble them, and give them a good cleaning, as you would any other firearm. I would use no abrasives at all. Not even to get a bit of rust off. Wipe them down with mineral spirits to remove any oil or wax from the surfaces.

As for the wood I would wash it with warm water and dish detergent. Carefully dry it immediately. Wait a day and do it again. After another day, wipe with mineral spirits and dry. Let sit another day.

Then I would use Renaissance Wax on both the metal parts and the wood. I would not use any oil on the metal parts, as it's really not that good at stopping rust. The wax is what museums use to protect their firearms. Since the wax can be wiped off with a bit of mineral spirits, it will do nothing to harm the value. Do not use automotive wax, or any wax that contains silicon on the wood. It will harm the value. I strongly suggest that you only use Renaissance Wax and nothing else.

Edit: Washing the wood with warm water and dish washing detergent won't do any harm. Wiping the wood with mineral spirits won't harm any type of finish. If the grips are darkened excessively by oils, you can use a poultice to draw out the oils.

 

[Doc7]

Please check to make sure they aren't loaded before doing anything else!

 

[Jim Watson]

As said, the Luger is a real deal Imperial P08 from WWI.
Looking at Simpson's, it would be $1500-$1800 RETAIL. Less for an individual sale, but surely over $1000. Do not let an unscrupulous dealer tell you different. NOT a Pawn Stars item.

The little Savage is not so valuable in its well worn condition, I found one in similar condition that sold for $128.
But this one has the "perch belly" stock and Scheutzen buttplate and is just as cute as a button. I would be sorely tempted to have it refurbished. There is a poster on this board who occasionally shows inexpensive guns he has brought back to nice appearance and function without the expense of a true restoration or the buffed and varnished gleam of a common refinish.

 

[natman]

The Luger is a DWM and as far as I can tell it's all matching numbers (59). It's worth 4 figures easily. Some gentle rubbing with 0000 (4 zero) steel wool and LOTS of oil will remove the rust without damaging anything. Keep it well oiled thereafter.

The Savage isn't worth as much, but it's worth cleaning up and it certainly is appealing.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

The stock on the Savage can be repaired using Accraglas and if done correctly, will not devalue the rifle and make it safe and fun to shoot. Cracks in rifle stocks used to bother me until I repaired a few with Accraglas, but now I look for them as an open crack lowers the value but a properly repaired crack is very hard to find.

 

[SDC]

You don't want to touch that Luger with anything harder than a cotton rag; if you're planning on selling it, let the goomba who BUYS it buff it up on a wire wheel (after he pays you for it), but anything that changes the original colour, finish, or sheen is just subtracting value.

 

[zoom6zoom]

0000 (4 zero) steel wool

I'm one of those who believe that steel wool shouldn't even be in the same room with firearms. If you must go this route, please use bronze wool. It's softer than the steel, won't remove blueing, and won't leave behind particles that can rust.

 

[Jim K]

IMHO, steel wool is best kept for the old cook pot. Rust on guns can be addressed better with bronze (brass or copper will do) wool and oil.

From what I can tell, that Luger appears to have close to 100 percent original finish, with only small flecks of rust. It is best treated with a good gun oil and a cloth, not with abrasives of any kind. (It is a good idea to first remove the grips and oil underneat; wood traps moisture and many guns rust under the grips when they do not rust elsewhere.

Jim

 

[anothernewb]

To answer the most obvious question. I am remodeling it for someone else. Its an estate sale property. The owner passed away, and the kids want the house gone. None are local, and none wasn't the headache of absentee landlord. They contracted me to get it in shape for selling. It's in kinda poor shape. Badly maintained for nearly a decade. Part of the contract was I get possession of the tools and misc left in the house. And I have it in writing. The parent that lived there had several tools I was after. This was a bonus.

I plan to keep both. The savage is damaged internally I believe, the trigger and bolt are non operative. The luger has a good bore. It's coated in goo. Looks like old axle grease. It's like stale jelly. But it appears to fully function.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Tinpig]

Nice find.
I've been remodeling old houses for 45 years and have found a lot of interesting things, but still no guns, gold coins, or bearer bonds in the crawl spaces.
I know they're there!


Tinpig