Found these 2 firearms in a house - no kidding need help identifying

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zoom6zoom said:
I'm one of those who believe that steel wool shouldn't even be in the same room with firearms. If you must go this route, please use bronze wool. It's softer than the steel, won't remove blueing, and won't leave behind particles that can rust.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that bronze wool works wonderfully. But steel wool is easily available at any hardware store and in thirty years of using it to remove rust on hundreds of guns I have never experienced any of the problems listed when removing surface rust in the manner I described. I'm not going to switch to bronze wool to solve problems that exist more in theory than actual practice.
 
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Me neither.
And I've been using it for 40+ years.

In fact, professional firearms refinishers and manufactures use it to card off bluing salts residue on new high polish bluing fresh out of the bluing tank.

Bronze wool leaves brass rub-off that is harder to get off without finish damage then the rust was.
And it takes more harder rubbing to remove rust in the first place.

I have to really wonder how many folks who are saying 0000 Super-Fine steel Wool & oil will harm a blued finish have any Actual Experience doing it?
Or have ever even tried it??

Not too many I suspect.

As for leaving steel wool particles that will rust?
Not Even A Chance of that!

You are using it to remove the rust, not put it on it!
You wipe & clean & oil the metal after you use the steel wool.
So there are NO particles remaining to rust.

Here is what 0000 steel wool & oil actually can do & does do.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7826470&postcount=1


Rc
 
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In spite of what I said earlier, I have used steel wool, but very carefully and in limited circumstances. I cringe when I read advice to just use steel wool and scrub the hell out of a gun. Folks won't believe it but steel wool (even 0000) will scratch a finish and the scratches can be seen under magnification. And it will remove bluing as well as scratching nickel. Those pictures show a lot of nice original bluing on that Luger, and I don't think scrubbing it with steel wool is going to do it any good.

Jim
 
Well, I got to work on cleaning it a bit tonight.

I got to thinking how best to get at the spots. So I dug up some naval jelly, wiped the surface down liberally with it. then set it aside to work for a bit. I had some little steel and brass brushes for my dremel and went to work on it.




























Now - for anyone not having a heart attack, and those who are still holding their drinks or who are not cursing me to the lowest level of hell---

I did no such thing. I removed the grips and worked them with a toothbrush and some antique furniture cleaner that's supposed to be save for all finishes. Not much really came off them, but they appear to still have some lacquer on them so I left them largely untouched. I went to work on the steel with a nylon brush an old sock, and liberal quantities of gun oil.

40+ years (best as I can figure from the jacketing material of the wiring in the area I found them walled up in) in a Minnesota house have not been very kind to these things.

What I thought was jelly like goo, was actually lint/dust that had collected inside the bore. There may have been oil in there at one time - but not really any more. The bore has some pitting. slight, but enough to notice with a bore lite, but the rifling is still very clearly defined and the pits are probably small enough to be polished out with time. However, I simply scrubbed them up with a bore brush, + solvent, then ran a bunch of oil and patches through it and left it be. The majority of the rusty spots cleaned up well, but they're there to stay. and I'm not going to scrub any further for fear of messing things up.

The action works freely, and most of the moving parts seem unaffected by pitting or rust. I'm actually amazed at how smooth it it, and how tight the tolerances are. for 1916 machining. wow. just wow. maybe .001 or .002 clearance, but smooth as butter. I can't feel any drag or rough spots.

The inside of the magwell is pretty bad. the first couple passes with a rag were orange. ick..the pitting there is well... pitting.

Ill post a pic or two, but the gun remains largely like it looks in the original photos. The spots are a little smaller and darker now. It's wrapped in some of that dark brown oil/wax anit-rust paper until I find a better place to store it.
 
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Jim K said:
In spite of what I said earlier, I have used steel wool, but very carefully and in limited circumstances. I cringe when I read advice to just use steel wool and scrub the hell out of a gun.
Click to expand...

You certainly didn't read that here. What was actually written:

natman said:
Some gentle rubbing with 0000 (4 zero) steel wool and LOTS of oil will remove the rust without damaging anything.
Click to expand...
 
Another question on the Luger. Does the magazine have any numbers on it? If it is numbered to the pistol, the value goes up. It looks to be a correct WWI magazine so the pistol could have been in the US since then. WWI Lugers were re-issued during WWII but many of them are found with WWII aluminum bottom magazines rather than the early wood bottom ones.
 
I'm one of those who believe that steel wool shouldn't even be in the same room with firearms.
Click to expand...
I can't understand why people are so afraid of 0000 steel wool. I have used it on everything from old L.C.Smith doubles to new bluing straight out of the bluing tanks(still do). It does absolutely no harm to the bluing. As far a residue particles.. just blow off with compressed air or oil in an aerosol can. I have no quarrel with bronze wool but there is no particular need to use it.
 
Awesome find... everything looks authentic to me. As for cleaning it I would make that decision only if I were gonna keep it and even then it would be limited to what I did too it. But if your gonna sell it let the buyer do that at his discretion.
 
Kroil and brass wool is gentler than using steel wool. Remove all wood carefully that you might contact. Remember that damaged screws reduce the value.

I'd apply Kroil and wipe off with cotton swabs after a couple of hours. Repeat until the rust stops coming off and then decide if brass wool might be needed.

Remember that an careless attempt at "restoration" will reduce the value more than just oiling and then selling.
 
As a point of reference I just paid $1650.00 for this Luger dated 1917, it has the same markings as the pictures in this thread but oddly the serial number is lower.
This gun would be worth a lot more if it had not been professionally "restored" but I imagine it was badly pitted on the exterior and probably looked like a relic.
This is the Artillery Luger with a 7 inch barrel and long range sights.
Lugers with a 4 inch barrel are "prohibited" here in Canada which means that I can't have one, if you add 1/4 inch to the barrel it is "restricted" but it is re-barreled.
To have a Luger with an original barrel I got this Artillery variant which is "restricted".

dc5a1e81-6696-4250-99c9-68ffd88185ab_zpscd5dfe4c.jpg
2ffc38f1-792a-4f21-9b86-ed8f2805a82b_zpsfec3ee57.jpg
 
I have little to add about these particular guns. It's great that you have a contract that says you get to keep what you find.

On that note, if it hadn't occurred to you, I would poke, prod, and search the heck out of the rest of that house for every possible loose floor board, nook and cranny... maybe even take a metal detector to the walls and back yard!

I know an elderly couple that hides guns, money, coins, and other valuables in their walls, floors, ceilings, etc. Crazy, I know.

So, tear that darn house apart!

This thread reminds me of another a few years back of a guy that found a bunch of rifles in the house he had just purchased, and some similar threads:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=590680&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602048&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=478897&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438633&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389447&highlight=found+attic
 
Skinny 1950 said:
As a point of reference I just paid $1650.00 for this Luger dated 1917, it has the same markings as the pictures in this thread but oddly the serial number is lower.
This gun would be worth a lot more if it had not been professionally "restored" but I imagine it was badly pitted on the exterior and probably looked like a relic.
This is the Artillery Luger with a 7 inch barrel and long range sights.
Lugers with a 4 inch barrel are "prohibited" here in Canada which means that I can't have one, if you add 1/4 inch to the barrel it is "restricted" but it is re-barreled.
To have a Luger with an original barrel I got this Artillery variant which is "restricted".

dc5a1e81-6696-4250-99c9-68ffd88185ab_zpscd5dfe4c.jpg
2ffc38f1-792a-4f21-9b86-ed8f2805a82b_zpsfec3ee57.jpg
Click to expand...
Wow, that thing looks amazing.

I wonder what it would cost to have mine restored, and how much it might depreciate it's current value
 
leadcounsel said:
I have little to add about these particular guns. It's great that you have a contract that says you get to keep what you find.

On that note, if it hadn't occurred to you, I would poke, prod, and search the heck out of the rest of that house for every possible loose floor board, nook and cranny... maybe even take a metal detector to the walls and back yard!

I know an elderly couple that hides guns, money, coins, and other valuables in their walls, floors, ceilings, etc. Crazy, I know.

So, tear that darn house apart!

This thread reminds me of another a few years back of a guy that found a bunch of rifles in the house he had just purchased, and some similar threads:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=590680&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602048&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=478897&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=438633&highlight=found+attic
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389447&highlight=found+attic
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd like to tear into the whole house. But I have a sell date to make and there's the other side of getting into it so deep I loose my butt on it. It's mostly a simple low impact flip. paint, patching, updating the kitchen and bath. some lights and yard cleanup. not too much major reconstruction. Only reason I opened up the wall I did was due to assess the level of water damage from the roof.

It's not my primary job, just side work I do to earn money - mostly to buy guns/ammo anyway lol. At this point I'm way ahead!
 
+1 on a metal detector.

Even just a cheap one to check the walls and other likely places.

You'd still be money ahead even if you don't find anything else.

Rc
 
Over the years remodeling or demolition of houses ,I found knives, coins and such but no guns. Dad found a old 22 in a barn and some guy gave him 300 cash for it 2 weeks later.
 
Was running a bush-hog around an old farmstead here in Texas back in the late 70's and found a Winchester 9422 that had been sawed off right behind the lever and right past the stock band. It was rusted shut and the bore was completely rusted closed. Called the sheriff's department and they said not to worry.
My BNL built houses in Colorado and found an old H&R nickel revolver in 32. It doesn't work but is a cool Xmas present he gave me.
 
anothernewb said:
Well, I got to work on cleaning it a bit tonight.

I got to thinking how best to get at the spots. So I dug up some naval jelly, wiped the surface down liberally with it. then set it aside to work for a bit. I had some little steel and brass brushes for my dremel and went to work on it.
Click to expand...

:cuss: I didn't even get a chance to read the dremel part before I passed out...
 
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