Fox News : Sonic, Chili’s join restaurants with no-guns policy
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zxcvbob
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I don't think they are. They probably started out thinking it was a good thing, but after they saw how much attention they got they said "this is pretty cool" and are just trying to stay in the spotlight -- regardless whether they are helping or hurting the cause.
USAF_Vet
Member
I found the article I alluded to earlier.
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/t...nti-gunners-moms-demand-action-rude-behavior/
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/t...nti-gunners-moms-demand-action-rude-behavior/
Arkansas Paul
Member
Me 2. It's important to let them know that the morons bringing ARs into the store are a minority.
That was my thought too. What are they going to do? Ask through the speaker if you have a gun in the car before they take your order? :banghead:
Me 2. If I owned a business and some yahoo came in with an AR or AK strapped on, I'd politely tell him to either put it in his truck or get the hell out of my store.
That's not open carry in my book. That's attention grabbing BS and there is NO place for it. No one goes about their day to day lives with a long gun slung over their shoulder.
Do they not have jobs? Do they carry their long guns into work? Why carry them into a restaurant?
I am very much in favor of carrying for self defense. When you see me out, 9 times out of 10, I'm carrying. But you would never know it.
I'm not even advocating against open carry, though I'm not a big fan. I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone who did, and I certainly don't think it should be against the law.
But carrying long guns into public places is chest thumping, attention hungry idiots looking for even more controversy. It's going to bite us in the ass if it keeps on.
Right!
The companies had a neutral policy until the guys with long guns started using their establishments for their own purpose. The companies had no problem with us or carry until this. Now they've reacted in about the only way you would expect, ASKING people to not engage in theater with ARs and AKs in their businesses. They've not posted against us, they've just stated that they want us to respect their patrons, their employees, and their businesses and not hijack them for what OCTx and others have now declared was a bad idea.
The companies had a neutral policy until the guys with long guns started using their establishments for their own purpose. The companies had no problem with us or carry until this. Now they've reacted in about the only way you would expect, ASKING people to not engage in theater with ARs and AKs in their businesses. They've not posted against us, they've just stated that they want us to respect their patrons, their employees, and their businesses and not hijack them for what OCTx and others have now declared was a bad idea.
DeadMoneyDrew
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The NRA has now issued a statement against this practice.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...s-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...s-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx
Good Citizens and Good Neighbors: The Gun Owners' Role
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/a...s-and-good-neighbors-the-gun-owners-role.aspx
....."Yet while unlicensed open carry of long guns is also typically legal in most places, it is a rare sight to see someone sidle up next to you in line for lunch with a 7.62 rifle slung across his chest, much less a whole gaggle of folks descending on the same public venue with similar arms.
Let's not mince words, not only is it rare, it's downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one's cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.
As a result of these hijinx, two popular fast food outlets have recently requested patrons to keep guns off the premises (more information can be found here and here). In other words, the freedom and goodwill these businesses had previously extended to gun owners has been curtailed because of the actions of an attention-hungry few who thought only of themselves and not of those who might be affected by their behavior. To state the obvious, that's counterproductive for the gun owning community.
More to the point, it's just not neighborly, which is out of character for the big-hearted residents of Texas. Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners. That's not the Texas way. And that's certainly not the NRA way.
In summary, NRA certainly does not support bans on personalized guns or on carrying firearms in public, including in restaurants. We think people are intelligent enough to resolve these issues in a reasonable way for themselves. But when people act without thinking, or without consideration for others – especially when it comes to firearms – they set the stage for further restrictions on our rights. Firearm owners face enough challenges these days; we don't need to be victims of friendly fire."
© 2014 National Rifle Association of America. Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
11250 Waples Mill Rd. Fairfax, VA 22030 1800-392-8683(VOTE)
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barnbwt
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I agree wholeheartedly. I also think there actually is a need for some sort of OC presence in society, or we will eventually lose when some fool does take the law literally and takes a rude stance. Do we all agree that businesses and people at large should not be offended by OC'ers, at least? If so, we can start to think about how we influence public opinion to end up at that spot. But if we get there and still expect no one to actually exercise the privilege, how do we expect it to remain socially acceptable? 
We have to remember that when we fight for actions to be made legal, there is a chance people will take us up on it and perform them. If performing the action is unacceptable, for what purpose did we strike down the laws forbidding it in the first place? Just to rile the anti's?
We need to come up with a measured and controlled (as in self-controlled) way of introducing visible firearms to the public. I personally think holster-carry is a non-threatening, if logically stupid, means of accomplishing this. Maybe airsoft or squirt gun carry might be a step further once OC is legal and having a holster filled with anything won't get you thrown to the floor as a matter of course.
At the end of the day, I want to be able to lawfully carry a pistol or rifle however I see fit (such that it does not endanger others) where ever I wish, so that my personal discretion in doing so is the only thing constraining me. That's the ideal. Of course, there will always be people who will disagree who will be within their rights to forbid my carry on their property, but that's the goal I would like to work toward. We could then focus our efforts on convincing the remaining hold outs to willingly allow us to carry on their property.
TCB
We have to remember that when we fight for actions to be made legal, there is a chance people will take us up on it and perform them. If performing the action is unacceptable, for what purpose did we strike down the laws forbidding it in the first place? Just to rile the anti's?
We need to come up with a measured and controlled (as in self-controlled) way of introducing visible firearms to the public. I personally think holster-carry is a non-threatening, if logically stupid, means of accomplishing this. Maybe airsoft or squirt gun carry might be a step further once OC is legal and having a holster filled with anything won't get you thrown to the floor as a matter of course.
At the end of the day, I want to be able to lawfully carry a pistol or rifle however I see fit (such that it does not endanger others) where ever I wish, so that my personal discretion in doing so is the only thing constraining me. That's the ideal. Of course, there will always be people who will disagree who will be within their rights to forbid my carry on their property, but that's the goal I would like to work toward. We could then focus our efforts on convincing the remaining hold outs to willingly allow us to carry on their property.
TCB
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
They can and do, but it is very situational.
This article puts a different spin on things. HSO, you might appreciate this...
http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/t...and-action-rude-behavior/#5SEgPk7kdoWKeB0Y.01
Sauer Grapes
Member
Chuckleheads carrying long guns into businesses are not OC advocates! They're idiots! God I hate some gun owners. :banghead:
This whole SNAFU started because there's a push to legalize OC in TX and this particular group thought that this was the way to go about it.
So the context of this whole mess is trying to get OC legalized. It would be pretty foolish to try to legalize something that could never be used.
HOWEVER, it's equally foolish to assume that because something is legal or because people want something legalized that it is acceptable to do it ANYWHERE.
The bottom line is that if OC, in a particular situation, offends people or makes them uncomfortable, you HAVE to expect that if that situation occurs in a business that they are going to be offended. They are going to be upset by ANYTHING that makes their customers uncomfortable or offends them.
There's no simple answer, one-size-fits-all answer for this. People are going to have to exercise common sense about when/where they OC. Just like they should already be exercising common sense about everything else in their lives. There are all kinds of things that are legal that aren't appropriate in every possible context in which they could be legally performed.
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Bartholomew Roberts
Member
http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics...son-open-carry-demonstrations-could-backfire/
This is an article quoting George Lavender (who introduced the Open Carry bill in the House in 2013 and 2011) and Jerry Patterson (who has been a huge Second Amendment & open carry supporter at the Capitol in various capacities for over a decade). Patterson helped set up the Open Carry protest at the Alamo last October.
"Patterson, who had not read the NRA statement, added about the Texas open carry demonstrations: “In certain cases it’s not helping. It’s actually probably hurting.”
“I have told the groups that I have talked to not to do this right now. I think it is more harmful. The only reason it wouldn’t pass is if we do something stupid and attract bad publicity,” Lavender told Texas Politics, emphasizing that open carry legislation appears to be a slam dunk in the 2015 session. “It’s good legislation. This could be harmful in getting it passed. We’re so close to getting it done. I would hate to see it damaged inadvertently.”
Charles Cotton, an NRA Board of Director and also well known at the Capitol and Alice Tripp, the TSRA lobbyist, also joined a roundtable with C. J. Grisham on the topic of open carry. According to Cotton, their input was ignored by Open Carry Texas.
This is an article quoting George Lavender (who introduced the Open Carry bill in the House in 2013 and 2011) and Jerry Patterson (who has been a huge Second Amendment & open carry supporter at the Capitol in various capacities for over a decade). Patterson helped set up the Open Carry protest at the Alamo last October.
"Patterson, who had not read the NRA statement, added about the Texas open carry demonstrations: “In certain cases it’s not helping. It’s actually probably hurting.”
“I have told the groups that I have talked to not to do this right now. I think it is more harmful. The only reason it wouldn’t pass is if we do something stupid and attract bad publicity,” Lavender told Texas Politics, emphasizing that open carry legislation appears to be a slam dunk in the 2015 session. “It’s good legislation. This could be harmful in getting it passed. We’re so close to getting it done. I would hate to see it damaged inadvertently.”
Charles Cotton, an NRA Board of Director and also well known at the Capitol and Alice Tripp, the TSRA lobbyist, also joined a roundtable with C. J. Grisham on the topic of open carry. According to Cotton, their input was ignored by Open Carry Texas.
I live in TX (after WA State) and hold a CHL.
If OC means for suburban Dallas that we gonna see a whole lot of yahoos running around with their "tactical" HK45s strapped in a leg-holster and more group gatherings of folks with AR15s over their shoulders while soccer moms eat a burriot with their kids.... then I oppose the OC legislation.
CHL had worked JUST FINE for Texas and OC is frankly only useful for hunting/hiking and whatnot. Example WA State: How often do you see someone OC'ing a 1911 in DT Seattle? Never. Although it's a OC state.
If OC means for suburban Dallas that we gonna see a whole lot of yahoos running around with their "tactical" HK45s strapped in a leg-holster and more group gatherings of folks with AR15s over their shoulders while soccer moms eat a burriot with their kids.... then I oppose the OC legislation.
CHL had worked JUST FINE for Texas and OC is frankly only useful for hunting/hiking and whatnot. Example WA State: How often do you see someone OC'ing a 1911 in DT Seattle? Never. Although it's a OC state.
Old Dog
Member
Open carry of handguns is pretty common in my neck of the woods and rarely causes even a raised eyebrow ... Rifles in restaurants here would probably be considered a fashion faux pas. Sonic and Chili's? Sigh. Why does it seem that (well, Starbucks excepted) the places these ostentatious OCers show up are establishments that just serve up some pretty mediocre fare?
JRH6856
Member
It is somewhat important to distinguish between OpenCarryTexas (OCT) and Open Carry Tarrant County (OCTC). They are two completely separate groups. OCTC is NOT a county chapter of OCT.
AFAICT, OCT does what they call gun walks. They notify local LEO of a time and place, usually public and outdoors and walk quietly with slung and unloaded rifles and pass out literature. They have adopted a 2 mile stretch of Texas highway which they keep free of litter (Texas has a program for groups to do this). They carry slung rifles while picking up the litter.
OCTC holds demonstrations with no advance LEO notice, often attempt to enter businesses, and may carry loaded weapons, not necessarily slung.
OCTC generates most of the bad press, OTC gets the blame.
AFAICT, OCT does what they call gun walks. They notify local LEO of a time and place, usually public and outdoors and walk quietly with slung and unloaded rifles and pass out literature. They have adopted a 2 mile stretch of Texas highway which they keep free of litter (Texas has a program for groups to do this). They carry slung rifles while picking up the litter.
OCTC holds demonstrations with no advance LEO notice, often attempt to enter businesses, and may carry loaded weapons, not necessarily slung.
OCTC generates most of the bad press, OTC gets the blame.
I am a Texas CHL holder
To these brethren that think OC of rifles and in your face approach.....
You are doing ALL of us harm...... Please stop
When Mr and Mrs Joe Q Public, who are "generally" on the side of gun ownership.........goes to vote.......
That vote QUICKLY can turn to an anti-gun, anti gun candidate......
And now........ Thanks to you.......... 2 More places to go...... Post Antigun
There is a time and place for everything.......this isn't it
Please stop
To these brethren that think OC of rifles and in your face approach.....
You are doing ALL of us harm...... Please stop
When Mr and Mrs Joe Q Public, who are "generally" on the side of gun ownership.........goes to vote.......
That vote QUICKLY can turn to an anti-gun, anti gun candidate......
And now........ Thanks to you.......... 2 More places to go...... Post Antigun
There is a time and place for everything.......this isn't it
Please stop
Outlaw Man
Member
For what it's worth, there are at least two Sonic restaurants within a half hour of me (I'm not in Texas) that have indoor seating. It's certainly not common, though.
I think the carrying of firearms as any form of protest (as a group) is risky. While I disagree that a rifle is solely an offensive weapon, all firearms are viewed by some as offensive weapons, and there is the real possibility that it can cause fear among the general population, that an armed group is having a demonstration. That may not be the intent, but if it happens it won't ever do any good.
These guys take it even farther with long guns. I can completely understand a business making such a statement. They're not barring people from defending themselves in their business, just specifying which methods (concealed carry) they would prefer them to use.
That's the fear I've always had with open carry - that more places would ban carry. If it's concealed, it's out of mind, and it can be ignored. While I'm certainly not opposed to open carry, it definitely makes it impossible to ignore and forces the business to address the issue.
I think the carrying of firearms as any form of protest (as a group) is risky. While I disagree that a rifle is solely an offensive weapon, all firearms are viewed by some as offensive weapons, and there is the real possibility that it can cause fear among the general population, that an armed group is having a demonstration. That may not be the intent, but if it happens it won't ever do any good.
These guys take it even farther with long guns. I can completely understand a business making such a statement. They're not barring people from defending themselves in their business, just specifying which methods (concealed carry) they would prefer them to use.
That's the fear I've always had with open carry - that more places would ban carry. If it's concealed, it's out of mind, and it can be ignored. While I'm certainly not opposed to open carry, it definitely makes it impossible to ignore and forces the business to address the issue.
-Gadsden-
Member
these open carry demonstrations are intended to offend, just like breastfeeding protests (closest thing I could think of.)
Do I have a problem with open carry? absolutely not - but I can understand if a business doesn't want to get involved in this battle.
Do I have a problem with breastfeeding? Again, absolutely not - I think it is important and it's how my son eats each day. However I can understand how people don't appreciate intentional rabble-rousing when they're just trying to go have a nice meal.
Open carrying should be like tying your shoes or putting on a jacket - just another part of your ensemble. It should not be the sole reason you go to a restaurant.
Do I have a problem with open carry? absolutely not - but I can understand if a business doesn't want to get involved in this battle.
Do I have a problem with breastfeeding? Again, absolutely not - I think it is important and it's how my son eats each day. However I can understand how people don't appreciate intentional rabble-rousing when they're just trying to go have a nice meal.
Open carrying should be like tying your shoes or putting on a jacket - just another part of your ensemble. It should not be the sole reason you go to a restaurant.
22-rimfire
Member
The NRA issued in a column (according to Fox News) in their online paper and I have to say that I agree with it. The article is pasted in Post #33 above. This has made the whole issue very clear to me.... no public demonstrations with long guns (aka open carrying). I will gladly support these businesses that have opted to restrict access to their private property to people demonstarting for this cause.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/03/nra-says-open-carry-texas-group-too-extreme/
According to Fox News (link above), the businesses have "banned" open carrying on their property, but HSO seems to clarify this a bit. I hope he is correct and I believe he is.
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the NRA nailed it with their article.
Frankly - I'm not even remotely interested in TX getting OC .... if all it does is result in folks parading around and showing off their guns.
"look - hey! we can legally do this!! photo op!!! look... i have a 1911 on my belt!!! look!! let's take more pictures!! look all my buddies are armed as well" :banghead:
If OC turns into a Christopher-Street-Day-Style event for gun owners... this will harm us more than do good.
Last but not least.... I do NOT care if your rifle is unloaded. All I see is a rifle dangling on your back in a busy restaurant with an unsecured trigger.
there's a reason why prior to entering military bases in Afghanistan soldiers have to unload their rifles and pull the trigger into the box to verify it's really unloaded.
Frankly - I'm not even remotely interested in TX getting OC .... if all it does is result in folks parading around and showing off their guns.
"look - hey! we can legally do this!! photo op!!! look... i have a 1911 on my belt!!! look!! let's take more pictures!! look all my buddies are armed as well" :banghead:
If OC turns into a Christopher-Street-Day-Style event for gun owners... this will harm us more than do good.
Last but not least.... I do NOT care if your rifle is unloaded. All I see is a rifle dangling on your back in a busy restaurant with an unsecured trigger.
there's a reason why prior to entering military bases in Afghanistan soldiers have to unload their rifles and pull the trigger into the box to verify it's really unloaded.
joe_security
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I have been told that the new Sonic on the North side of Chicago has armed security on the premises.
Kayaker 1960
Member
just a thought
How do you think anyone on this forum would act if they saw several men of middle-eastern decent OC ing in a crowded place? They may well be American citizens. How about a bunch of young black men?
As others here have said, open carrying a long gun in public is turning people who are on the fence or haven't even thought about it against gun owners.
How do you think anyone on this forum would act if they saw several men of middle-eastern decent OC ing in a crowded place? They may well be American citizens. How about a bunch of young black men?
As others here have said, open carrying a long gun in public is turning people who are on the fence or haven't even thought about it against gun owners.
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