Frustrated by Local Gun Shop Prices

[GunsAmerica Fan]

Uncle Mike you have got it going on brother. I had a 40x50 island last year at SHOT and I gave a lecture through 450 watt speakers every two hours, begging people to stop doing internet transfers on new guns. There is no reason why any brick and mortar dealer should do them. I even offered alternatives, like "if I have the gun on the shelf then the transfer fee is $100, if I can get the gun to you in less than 48 hours, the transfer fee is $75." You know, though I had great response from dealers after the lecture about the website automation tools we built, and the Guns On Demand system, not one of them came to me and said you know, you are right, I'm going to do that. Grrrr.

 

[Bubbles]

Like it or not, the internet has changed the way guns are bought and sold in this country. Local stores can either adapt or go out of business.

We are a manufacturer, not a stocking dealer, and we can't compete with the internet sellers or the stocking dealer & firing range down the road who moves 400+ guns a month (and that was before BHO got elected) and thus gets hefty discounts from the distributors.

Money is made on consignments and trades, plus services like repairs, refinishing, engraving, and customizing. Retail sales are a loser for a small shop; you just can't stock and move enough product to make it pay off. As an example, the minimum order from Benelli is $20k. I don't have that kind of cash just laying around.

OTOH if you purchase a POS from WalMart, send it back to the original manufacturer twice under warranty, and it still won't function properly, we'll be more than happy to fix it at our hourly labor rate plus parts. If you bring in a gun and the first words out of your mouth are "I use a dremel to..." it's really going to cost you.

Need a transfer done? Not an issue, it's five bucks and if there's no NICS delay you're in and out in ten minutes. Why so cheap? Loss leader. While you're in our place you can handle a sample of anything we make. Plenty of folks who come in for that cheap transfer put down a deposit on a custom rifle, or decide to return with an older or broken firearm for restoration. That's the big money.

 

[Guns and more]

First, I'd like to walk into a gun store and feel that they are happy to see me.
Too often, I have to interrupt their conversations with each other.
Next, when I say I can buy XYZ gun on line for $xxx, don't call me a liar.
Have a good inventory. I'll buy what I want, not what you happen to have.
I expect you to make a profit, just like the gun store that sells to me online.
I want to feel that going to your store is fun, not confrontation.
When your price of a given firearm is above manufacturers retail, don't be surprised if I don't buy it.

Customers vote with their feet.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I don't grudge the local shop turning a profit. The going rate here is ~$75, and I'm fine with that.

But I find the tone of the "we don't do transfers" dealers offensive. You see, I'm not in the market for 1911s, Glocks, or any of the rest of the cheap junk. I'm in the market for high end target pistols...and no, Rugers are not high end. Rugers are plinkers. S&W Model 41s are low end. Feinwerkbaus, Hammerlis, and Pardinis - THOSE are high end guns.

And I've never seen one in a regular gun shop.

 

[hometheaterman]

You guys notice how mostly the ones on here saying how you should be ripped off and pay super high prices from a dealer are the guys who say they own a shop or are somehow connected to it?

I have 0 problem buying local. However, I do have a problem when the guns are $150-200 more, the ammo is double the price, and the service is worst that Wal Mart. That's how most gun shops in this area are. I've found one or two where the guys there are friendly but don't seem to know a lot. 1 that mostly does work not selling guns that is pretty good also.

Even with those I'm not going to pay double the ammo price or over $100 more. If the gun was $50 more I might consider it from one of the gun stores that I do like which is rare. If it was $20 more I'd really buy from them. However, I'm not spending more than $50 more just so I can support a local shop and at $50 I'd really be cautious about buying it at a local store. The ones that have the crappy service and try to rip the customers off which are 90% of the ones I've been to will not get my business unless they start being cheaper than everywhere else.

As for Wal Mart stuff being junk. It's been debated several times before and the conclusion is that most of the time it's the same exact stuff. Only a few times has it not been a Wal Mart exclusive. Anyway, the ammo shoots just as well for me and the guns I've seen that have come from there shoot just as good and work just as well as ones that didn't. So even if they are slightly different who cares when they work just as well? Not me if I'm saving money. I highly doubt they are any different anyway.

Only one person I know has had issues with a gun bought at Wal Mart. I think he got it there but I'm not 100% positive. I know he got a shotgun there and I think he got the rifle at the same time but the other day he said something about it like it might have been from a local shop. Anyway it was a Remington semi auto .243. It's had issues since the start. One issue after another. The problem there seems to be it's a Remington not that it was from Wal Mart or anywhere else.

 

[NMGonzo]

I want to support the local shops; yet I have a hard time trying to get to open the catalog and spending time ordering something.

They don't realize that some of us do "test shopping", in which we buy from them a small item of relatively small value to see how their service works.

When I finally find a shop that just pulls out the catalog and tells me "I can get that for you in 5 business days" they will get several hundreds of dollars of my business.

I work retail, not a business owner, but it is a small town here in Santa Fe.

 

[goldie]

i am just about done with local gun shops. their prices are so insane,its an insult. how about 900.00 for a beat up hi standard citation model ?or 700.00 for a gsg-5 ? that is the tip of the iceberg by me.a friend of mine told me one store is either moving or going out. 10 years ago i would have flipped. i barely flinched. good ! cause no one can afford to walk in there.in the last year or so, these stores really went nuts.well,good luck,ill find it cheaper out of state & have it shipped here,& still save.ive been doing it for years,no reason to stop now....

 

[oneounceload]

i am just about done with local gun shops. their prices are so insane,its an insult. how about 900.00 for a beat up hi standard citation model ?or 700.00 for a gsg-5 ? that is the tip of the iceberg by me.a friend of mine told me one store is either moving or going out. 10 years ago i would have flipped. i barely flinched. good ! cause no one can afford to walk in there.in the last year or so, these stores really went nuts.well,good luck,ill find it cheaper out of state & have it shipped here,& still save.ive been doing it for years,no reason to stop now.

Well, if it so easy to make money on 10% over cost, why aren't you going into the business? (Or anyone else who thinks it is such a money-making opportunity) And no, I am not a dealer or even a FFL.

 

[goldie]

they arent going to move merchandise like a beat up hi standard by pricing it at 900.00.i know they have to make a profit,but thats crazy. maybe obama should bail out the gun stores,too while he's handing out billions....

 

[Gato Montés]

But I find the tone of the "we don't do transfers" dealers offensive.

...or that of charging 25 percent of the guns value to transfer it to you. OK, I get it. By not doing transfers or by making them so expensive that it'd be cheaper to just buy it right there in the store, you block any online competition. Fine, I can dig. What I can't get behind is when this is done because they know damn well HOW EXPENSIVE their guns really are. Again, this is personal experiences from around my area (Milwaukee), and is most likely NOT the average scenario, but what a slap in the face it is to see a used firearm priced over MSRP and have no alternative than the price on the sticker.

I WANT to support local stores, but I expect to be met half way. I'll gladly factor in shipping, the transfer fee, and the fact that I can't handle before I buy to come to a reasonable price, but no, be happy that you are privileged enough to pay their high prices, because if the local shops are gone, WE'RE DOOMED!!! If this is the game they want to play, then they can go to hell.

 

[goon]

The other thing... why not do the transfer for a reasonable price?
People buy guns online and SOMEONE will do the transfer for them. If there is money in it, it will happen whether you price yourself out of the transfer market or not.
So WHY NOT make $25 for ten minutes worth of work and a background check? I wish someone would pay me $25 to fill out a form and make one phone call. Such an easy job... I'd do that all day long!

 

[NetJunkie]

I tried to get info from Hyatts over the phone on three different purchases this Summer and Fall. They couldn't be bothered. Downright rude two of those times. So Colfax Guns and Ammo and The Gun Rack made about $4000 off me in six months.

I take my business where I'm treated like a customer who has a choice. Sometimes I'll even pay a little bit more because they've bent over backwards for me. But I won't buy so much as a scope mount at Gander. How in the #$%^ do they stay in business with rifles and shotguns running roughly 15 - 20% higher than anyone else?

Walk in that store during that time? You'd see why they couldn't get to the phone....

Hyatts has high list prices but will deal. I rarely pay over average online price there. Go talk to Roger in tactical...skip the other guys. Plus, they have a lot more in the back than even on display.

 

[hotshotshoting]

my store is a small store we are usually much higher priced then the other local shops.... however we provide lots of service's with the firearms to make up for the larger price... we have our customers who don't like the pricing and shop elsewhere... and we have our extremely loyal customers who give us their hard earned money every time they get something firearm related...

either way everyone comes back due to the fact we have the best gunsmiths within 100 miles, and the only indoor shooting range (public) within 80 miles....

the only advice i have is if you don't like the prices talk to the people about it, if you feel like your getting hosed don't do business with them... i make it a personal point to be as honest and straight up as i can be... as for pricing im much more likely to make less profit on a customer that spends lots of money at my store then someone that just comes in and starts yelling at me about how our prices are crap and we need to drop them... i typically take offense when someone trys to tell me how to run my business.. constructive criticism is fine and im welcome to it ill be the first to admit i do not know everything.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I wish someone would pay me $25 to fill out a form and make one phone call. Such an easy job... I'd do that all day long!

Try doing 25 or 30 of them, and all the associated paperwork (guess what dude, there is a lot more to it than the 4473!) and just work-work (get the package, unwrap the package, find the ppw, inspect the gun, compare to paperwork with the gun, record in bound book, repack, put in safe ....) keeping in mind that 1/2 of what you "make" will go to state & local taxes. The the other half has to cover ALL your expenses of becoming and staying an FFL.

I do transfers for $25, and gladly do them. However, no way on gods green earth could I do enough of them fast enough to make a living at it. If it only took "10 minutes" for the entire process ... I'd be frackin thrilled.

And we won't even mention the "screwed up" ones, and all the time they take. (no paperwork, gun doesn't match paperwork, gun isn't what was ordered, gun is damaged, yadda yadda yadda)

Oh, and the kicker ... if you screw up any of that paperwork just _ much, you are out of business, fined, and possibly on your way to being a guest of the state/feds at the greybar hotel.

 

[oneounceload]

Try doing 25 or 30 of them, and all the associated paperwork (guess what dude, there is a lot more to it than the 4473!) and just work-work (get the package, unwrap the package, find the ppw, inspect the gun, compare to paperwork with the gun, record in bound book, repack, put in safe ....) keeping in mind that 1/2 of what you "make" will go to state & local taxes. The the other half has to cover ALL your expenses of becoming and staying an FFL.

I do transfers for $25, and gladly do them. However, no way on gods green earth could I do enough of them fast enough to make a living at it. If it only took "10 minutes" for the entire process ... I'd be frackin thrilled.

And we won't even mention the "screwed up" ones, and all the time they take. (no paperwork, gun doesn't match paperwork, gun isn't what was ordered, gun is damaged, yadda yadda yadda)

Oh, and the kicker ... if you screw up any of that paperwork just _ much, you are out of business, fined, and possibly on your way to being a guest of the state/feds at the greybar hotel.

Now HERE'S a big thumbs up to reality!

 

[m2steven]

If you'll check out the prices of Cheaper than Dirt, they have gone absolutely insane on their pricing. They are the hightest shop on the internet. If they are making any sales, it's to people who never look anywhere else. I'm not bashing Cheaper than dirt. They simply are attempting to cash in on the "shortages" in the gun business. But it's so bad i've actually been brought to laughter at some of their deals.

 

[Pyzon]

You know, it seems that one of several familiar things that seem to keep coming up in these gun pricing threads is, not so much that my local dealer so and so charges way too much more than the online boys, but rather that:

1.) Not much seems to be in stock, even the most popular models and calibers, and/or nobody has time to answer the phone (without an attitude or a 45 minute wait on hold to see if in stock) before we spend a two hour drive for nothing. Hire somebody to answer the phone with knowledge of what's on the shelf, and maybe even computerize your stock inventory. Duhhhhhhh....they are calling to see if they can be a customer !

2.) Can't find somebody cheeful, friendly and patient and interested in now talking face to face with a customer about something actually in stock, assuming first of course that they have sufficient product knowledge to discuss a particular item to begin with. I sound sarcastic I know, but jeez, come on guys, some real customer service would go a long ways towards getting me to exchage my cash for some of your merchandise.......True, maybe I don't know squat about what I'm asking about, but far too often neither do you.
No, the customer is not always right, but you trying to come across as superior, arrogant or just an ass will insure failure. This is the age of the internet, and the online merchants are eating your lunch. Time to wake up or fold your tent.

3.) Maybe we have luckily and happily moved past stage one and two, and it is now time to writer 'er up to take home......But oops, wait just a minute, this one, the only one, has a bluing flaw, or a chip in the wood, or parts missing, or maybe the dealer didn't think it was important to also stock some obscure accessories..... like extra mags, maybe some quality scope bases, or what have you....I mean, who buys a single mag, or a rifle without bases, for Pete's sake ? And some ammo in a couple of choices ? Got a decent holster or belt to go with that $1000 pistol ? Uhhhhh........ maybe I'll do some one stop shopping online.

What I'm getting at is, customers are wanting to spend significant amounts of hard earned cash someplace, how's about spending some effort as salesmen, saleswomen and proprietors ? The price is often, far too often, a lower priority than you might think. And LOTS of you actually have them standing in lines, TAKING NUMBERS TO WAIT TO BE WAITED ON !!!!!!!

Sure, some of them are idiots and cheapskates wanting something for nothing. You're wasting too much time on them you could spend on the rest of us that appreciate customer service and are willing to pay for it.

And as merchants and dealers you are actually mad at US for shopping elsewhere.......How about giving us a reason or two not to ?

And yes, my friends, I have stood on your side of the counter too.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Try doing 25 or 30 of them, and all the associated paperwork (guess what dude, there is a lot more to it than the 4473!) and just work-work (get the package, unwrap the package, find the ppw, inspect the gun, compare to paperwork with the gun, record in bound book, repack, put in safe ....) keeping in mind that 1/2 of what you "make" will go to state & local taxes. The the other half has to cover ALL your expenses of becoming and staying an FFL.

I do transfers for $25, and gladly do them. However, no way on gods green earth could I do enough of them fast enough to make a living at it. If it only took "10 minutes" for the entire process ... I'd be frackin thrilled.

And we won't even mention the "screwed up" ones, and all the time they take. (no paperwork, gun doesn't match paperwork, gun isn't what was ordered, gun is damaged, yadda yadda yadda)

Oh, and the kicker ... if you screw up any of that paperwork just _ much, you are out of business, fined, and possibly on your way to being a guest of the state/feds at the greybar hotel.

Pay attention...you guys cryin'
Everybody wants something, no, scratch that, they want it ALL....for nothing!

Doing transfers is a bigger pain than they are worth, did you guys ever think to ask the local shop if they could get the firearm you want, or if they would meet or beat the internet price....wow, now that's an idea!

The internet guys doesn't stock anything, you order it, he orders it...no warehouse to pay for, no inventory to keep straight, that's why 10% works for him .

Do what you want, but as jobs are scarce because of everyone thinking they could save a dollar buying import, so too will be gun shops, then, what?

 

[NoirFan]

Pay attention...you guys cryin'
Everybody wants something, no, scratch that, they want it ALL....for nothing!

Doing transfers is a bigger pain than they are worth, did you guys ever think to ask the local shop if they could get the firearm you want, or if they would meet or beat the internet price....wow, now that's an idea!

Ok now this is just kind of annoying. I've done a few transfers and run into this attitude, and it makes no sense. If doing a transfer is really not worth the time and hassle to a gun shop, they can either:

Raise the price until it IS worth it

Stop offering the service

Instead, it seems like many gun shops keep offering the service at the same price, and instead of doing something about it they just get surly with the customers. What is the point?

 

[NoirFan]

I do transfers for $25, and gladly do them. However, no way on gods green earth could I do enough of them fast enough to make a living at it. If it only took "10 minutes" for the entire process ... I'd be frackin thrilled.

Mgkdrgn, thanks for your good attitude. It is a pleasure when I run across firearms business people in real life with an attitude of helping the customer. I'm curious though, why do you keep the price so low if it's not so profitable? Is there something to stop you from raising it?

 

[Howaido]

Not liking Wal-Mart just for the sake of it is insane.

Agreed. There are so many other legit reasons to not like walmart that not liking it for the sake of it is insane.

 

[hometheaterman]

You know I will say that I usually don't order online. Have gotten ammo online a time or two but that's it. Normally I call around locally until I find the cheapest price. If online was the cheapest I'd get it there but normally I find it cheaper locally. Either that or I find it used somewhere.

99.5% of the time Wal Mart is quite a bit cheaper on both guns and ammo than both online and the internet. That's also where I get most of my ammo from. I've never bought a gun there as I don't have many. However, if I needed another one and they had what I wanted that's where I'd more than likely get it.

 

[gym]

Most of what's been said here pertains to service in general. Its indeed lacking in most business's these days. Poor customer service is just a fact of life. I called two weeks to get a proper mechanic to do a simple oil change, and half way home the smoke started pouring out of the vehicle. I went back to Goodyear, they gave me a free oil change to make up for it. That won't get me to ever go back there. I know it's apples and oranges, but it's really not. We are being forced to underpay for help that is unskilled, and has no work ethic. Whether it's guns or grapefruits. If anyone feels like they don't want to offer a service, for whatever reason, they should stop offering it. I am sure some guy from a third world country will take your business and figure out a way to profit from it.
I am being cynical for a reason. We have two camps here, the Gun shop owners who feel unappreciated, and the consumer who feels the same way.
This is what happened to GM and all the rest of the American companies who refused to adapt. I am not saying it's right, but that's just the way it is. It isn't going back to the way it was. If you think it may, just remember the Dinosaurs. As Nancy Pelosi fly’s around with 22 aides using two 747’s the rest of us worry about how much a gallon of gas is. This stuff all comes from the top down, enough politics, but I think you see where I’m going.
Transfers are just a part of the business that some have chosen to be in. There are many parts, some you will enjoy, others suck. That's the way all business is. But when you threaten to stop offering a service, because you feel you are going to punish the customer,because they are ungratefull, well that's the first step in going out of business.

 

[robhof]

Most shops do the transfer to get the customer in the door, maybe they'll buy something while there. Support your local gunshops, unless they offer lousy service and if they do they won't be in business long. Unfortunately the good business will fail due to neglet and the internet also.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Mgkdrgn, thanks for your good attitude. It is a pleasure when I run across firearms business people in real life with an attitude of helping the customer. I'm curious though, why do you keep the price so low if it's not so profitable? Is there something to stop you from raising it?

Thats' what I charge because that is at, or a little under, the going rate around here. I also offer a $5 discount to LEO's, active military, teachers and SC Grassroots members.

I'm very new at this (3 months), and doing transfers is my way to break into the business and build a customer base. THAT is working. I have multiple repeat transfer customers in that time, and a couple have ordered new guns through me. (can't really make any money on them either ... but that is a different story.) I also do shipping/packing services, as well as consignment sales ... and the transfer thing has brought customers in the door that have later taken advantage of those services.

I'm looking at building this business over the next 10 years into something that will provide supplemental income in my retirement. I can't match the 'big box' guys on inventory, and I can't touch 'em on price (they often -sell- for less than I can -buy- for), but I'll put my "service" up against the minimum wage part time WallyWorld clerk any day of the week and twice on Sunday.