What might any of that have to do with this?
Fun little incident just happened to me
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luzyfuerza
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All's well that ends well! I have no problem with anything you did. And it all worked out.
For me, this is a good example of a DGU that didn't involve a shooting, injuries, or legal concerns.
I do have a couple of minor tweaks that you may want to consider.
I might have stood up when first approached.
My initial verbal response in this kind of situation is normally "I ain't got nuttin' for ya!", looking them straight in the eye. And if the other party keeps advancing, the response is "STOP!" with my non-dominant hand extended, palm open and facing away from me. Both are a little more command-like than the responses you used. And their meaning is crystal clear.
I might also blade my body a bit, and position my dominant hand ready to clear concealment.
Anybody who is going to plow on through that verbal and physical fence is definitely demonstrating mens rea.
For me, this is a good example of a DGU that didn't involve a shooting, injuries, or legal concerns.
I do have a couple of minor tweaks that you may want to consider.
I might have stood up when first approached.
My initial verbal response in this kind of situation is normally "I ain't got nuttin' for ya!", looking them straight in the eye. And if the other party keeps advancing, the response is "STOP!" with my non-dominant hand extended, palm open and facing away from me. Both are a little more command-like than the responses you used. And their meaning is crystal clear.
I might also blade my body a bit, and position my dominant hand ready to clear concealment.
Anybody who is going to plow on through that verbal and physical fence is definitely demonstrating mens rea.
The Night Rider
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I avoid convenience stores as much as possible. As you said most gas stations have a Mini Mart attached. I get gas when the station is not busy. I use the pump the farthest out and closest to the parking lot exit as I can get and I leave immediately when I'm done. I never enter the store unless something goes wrong with my pump.
I've quoted Tom Givens on this before. Almost every one of his students who was involved in a shooting had it happen in a Gas Station/ Mini Mart parking lot. A large percentage of shootings in Colorado Springs seem to occur in Gas Station parking lots and other transitional spaces.
There's a lesson there if you look for it.
I knew a girl who had a Tesla. She had a 220 outlet installed in her garage and that's where she charged the car.
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Eh I probably wouldn't be that excited by a bum asking for money. That happens all the time without incident. The best thing is to avoid eye contact and act like you're busy with something else. but remain aware. Eye contact isn't the deterrent people think it is. It's usually taken as a challenge or as an invitation to approach. If he doesn't go away then I go away.
Keeping a hand in your pocket is the worst idea. What if he keeps his hand in his pocket and keeps coming until he's within arms reach? You're screwed if that happens and his hand is in his pocket with no weapon. You can't just draw on people who's hands are in their pockets but have made no other threat aside from walking towards you. My hands are up in a non threatening defensive posture that I can use to gesture away with or block, strike, or draw. An armed criminal will often conceal their weapon until the last possible moment within arms reach before revealing it.
I like to make sure any witnesses can clearly see that my hands are empty and that I'm making non threatening gestures of avoidance. Hands are never in the pocket.
Keeping a hand in your pocket is the worst idea. What if he keeps his hand in his pocket and keeps coming until he's within arms reach? You're screwed if that happens and his hand is in his pocket with no weapon. You can't just draw on people who's hands are in their pockets but have made no other threat aside from walking towards you. My hands are up in a non threatening defensive posture that I can use to gesture away with or block, strike, or draw. An armed criminal will often conceal their weapon until the last possible moment within arms reach before revealing it.
I like to make sure any witnesses can clearly see that my hands are empty and that I'm making non threatening gestures of avoidance. Hands are never in the pocket.
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Buzznrose
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That the culture trends infer we must retreat or ignore places or behavior that we used to stand up to.
OP recognized a possible threat, reacted well, and maybe made the goblin take pause to think about what could have happened. I don’t think this happens enough these days.
The recent viral video of those two 7-11 workers stopping the thug openly stealing cigarettes makes my point.
Again, you can't "what if" without knowing those factors of state law. It becomes pointless speculation without those details (and that's certainly not useful). Further, this isn't the Legal forum (where the state and state law would be required for a meaningful discussion). So, I will not speculate.
Old Dog
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I invite you to come up to Seattle, Tacoma and anywhere around the greater Puget Sound area. We have some of the most aggressive, loud, mentally ill or tweaked out of the their minds panhandlers I've ever encountered.
Tweaker are tweakers and panhandlers are panhandlers everywhere. Annoying, smelly, and obnoxious but they aren't committing murders on passersby in broad daylight in any significant numbers. When I encounter them I want both hands up in front of my body to make clear gestures and keep my reactionary gap and also to stay on balance in case I need to move suddenly and get away. My drawstroke is trained from this position.
If my hand is in my pocket and I get accused of brandishing and the police come frisk me and find a gun that may not go so well in a liberal city.
Old Dog
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Classic example of minimizing what's going on. If not murders, the assaults are occurring in quite significant numbers.
Here's a real example of what's happening, starting as an encounter with a panhandler:
https://komonews.com/news/local/sea...r-king-county-jail-assault-malicious-mischief
Read the story, check the "related stories" links. I'm on the other side of the sound, but have a couple good friends that work these streets.
epags
Member
That's my point. You can't reply to a simple assault with a firearm and I sure don't want my hand stuffed in my pocket if I'm assaulted.
In some US jurisdictions, the law has mandated retreat before using force, if retreat were safely possible, since colonial days. In others, that requirement has been obviated.
No prudent person will knowingly venture into dangerous places.
I'm not sure what "ignore...behavior that we used to stand up to" means. it has never been the province of the non-sworn officer to impose his behavioral standards on others.
Entirely different situation. that one is contoversial, but it dis involve a crims.
The Night Rider
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Do you drive during rush hour? Do you put gas in your car? Do you walk through parking lots?
Jim Watson
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Yes, but normally in broad daylight. I joke about the late night Walmartians but do not join them.
I know there are daytime street beggars, thieves, and robbers, but fewer than in the dark.
I know there are daytime street beggars, thieves, and robbers, but fewer than in the dark.
Everyone ventures into dangerous places and does dangerous things. The vast majority of Americans are at far higher risk of injury or death due to their diet and sedentary lifestyle than the OP was likely to have been for sitting behind a tire shop eating lunch.
I agree with you, being transitional spaces, the gas pumps themselves, are just as dangerous as the attached convenience stores. I've read lots of stories of robberies and car jackings takings place at the gas pumps. I'm on high alert when filling up my vehicle. However, I get a craving for a cold soda after being on the road for hours at a time.
Out here in the sticks we still have gas stations where you pay in person - meaning the pumps don't have card readers.
I can't imagine owning an EV and needing to wait an hour to charge it in a public area. There's always going to be an ooops moment where an extra charge might be needed.
Side note, I have my vehicles set up so they don't auto un-lock when placed into park. That prevents someone from walking right up to your vehicle and hopping inside, because all the doors are unlocked. That can be annoying if you have back seat passengers as they need to manually unlock their doors. The driver and front seat passenger can unlock their doors just by pulling the handle from the inside.
bubbaturbo
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I think this thread has moved from the specifics of one "interaction" to a general discussion of dangerous people, places, and times. I and several others I think, see a progression in the places, people, and times we are told we should avoid. For example, we shouldn't be out after dark, effectively ceding control of 12 hours of every day to others. Then people begin blocking streets and taking over intersections and we cede control of our freedom of movement, at least temporarily. "Flash mobs" attack stores in broad daylight and strip them bare. These things, and others, are tolerated and some might feel they are confined to smaller and smaller places and times that are "safe".
I'm not arguing that it's each individual's job to be an "armed hero" and do something about it, I'm just saying that there is a cost to society when times, activities, and places are "off limits" due to behaviors that are tolerated but should not be.
I'm not arguing that it's each individual's job to be an "armed hero" and do something about it, I'm just saying that there is a cost to society when times, activities, and places are "off limits" due to behaviors that are tolerated but should not be.
The phenomenon is happening, but let us not confuse prudence in avoiding exposing oneself to unnecessary risks with the forces or factors that a creating those risks.
bubbaturbo
Member
I don't know that I think anybody is confusing anything. Some people think the OP shouldn't have been where he was, even though he hasn't been very clear about where he was. Maybe so.
Separately, others are pointing out that the places and times where we shouldn't be, seem to be constantly expanding. I think some are concerned (and fed up) with always having to make allowances for people who are unable to behave in a civilized manner. There sometimes seems to be a little victim blaming going on too - you deserved what you got for being there and should have known better. The "should have known better" part unfortunately may be true but it's still aggravating. I sure don't know what to do about any of this but I think the pendulum is starting its swing the other way. Hopefully.
Separately, others are pointing out that the places and times where we shouldn't be, seem to be constantly expanding. I think some are concerned (and fed up) with always having to make allowances for people who are unable to behave in a civilized manner. There sometimes seems to be a little victim blaming going on too - you deserved what you got for being there and should have known better. The "should have known better" part unfortunately may be true but it's still aggravating. I sure don't know what to do about any of this but I think the pendulum is starting its swing the other way. Hopefully.
Yeah, but that dos not change what they have to do. It ia irrelevant to the thread.
Old Dog
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I don't think that the places and times we shouldn't be at are expanding, it's simply that bad things can happen to anyone, at any time, any place. Not seeing victim-blaming, but there is almost a note of self-righteousness showing on the part of those who claim they never go to certain places or at certain times.
I can agree with this, but we're all to blame for enabling this as for the most part, people in cities stopped confronting bad behavior in public spaces. Kinda reminds of this one country song people are talking a lot about lately...
FL-NC
Member
You did fine. You controlled the situation you found yourself in, and didn't end up in the back of a cop car or ambulance.
Bcwitt
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Bcwitt
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No tables @ Wawas in PA, to my awareness.
Yeah. I haven't been out of Florida much in the last 7 years or so. Wawa is relatively new in my area and the stores usually have tables.
In any case, I don't usually hang out behind gas stations or in alleyways unless I have to. I would have eaten in the tire store waiting room or out in front of the gas station. But that's just me.
I spent enough years in service areas or wooded areas shooing bums away to install telephone equipment. Nobody's paying me to associate with bums anymore, and most of the time I choose not to.
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