Future Weapons: Masada (Bushmaster buys Masada from Magpul)

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Coronach hit it spot on. Magpul just hasn't demonstrated that they have the resources to make something this big happen in a reasonable time frame. Bushmaster has the resources to make this happen.

Isn't the whole point of a modular design that you don't ultimately care what it shipped with?
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I like modularity but not so that I can just throw away what it came with to make it what I want. I want versatility, not to forced to take the stock I don't want from the factory. Look at the complaining that sig got over ditching the folding stock on their rifle. Losing that would be a mistake.
 
Coronach, need has nothing to do with it.
All I look for is a rifle that is durable, reliable, reasonably accurate, and doesn't cost a boatload. More and more I see the good stuff being priced higher and higher, to the point of ridiculous. I would like a Msada, looks like it is a very low recoil, fun and interesting design, one that has no combat/reliabilty record whatsoever, yet. S'OK, still looks like fun. I just wish that stuff like this wasn't priced higher than my house payment, that's all.
S'all good.
 
hearsay of hearsay said:
They've moved the charging handle and apparently the collapsible/folding stock is only going to be on the production run of the 12.5" carbines.
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No, the stock is still modular and you can have a collapsible, SPR style etc. The AR15.com thread in the Magpul forum has pictures of the new rifle.

Edited to add: According to the Bushmaster press release, the initial offerings will be just the 12.5" with collapsible/folding, 16" with fixed, and 18" with SPR stock; but the stock assembly can still be swapped out between rifles.

I've heard loose rumors that they are also trying to make a proprietary magazine for the 7.62x39 chambering. I'd rather just keep my AK.
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Haven't heard this, though a lot of people have been asking for AK PMAGs which may be the source of that rumor. When Magpul was still commenting the only thing they said was that they were still trying to decide what AK magazine to use as apparently they don't all interchange well.

Count on Bushmaster to screw it up. I won't give up hope on it, but I have a hunch we'll be able to add it to a growing list of unworthy, poorly engineered Bushmaster proprietary crap.
-Carbon series
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Actually not engineered or designed by Bushmaster; but by Professional Ordnance. Bushmaster actually improved this product significantly after buying out PO.

-Bar10
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Another not designed or engineered by Bushmaster product. This was actually produced by RRA for Bushmaster and would have been a fairly smart move (since one of the big issues for .308 ARs used to be the insane price of magazines). However delaying production until right before the ban died didn't make the higher cost (compared to other .308 ARs) go over well.

-M17 Bullpup
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Actually, I know a lot of people who like the M17, though it definitely has its limitations. However considering it was designed by an entirely different set of people (I'm not even sure if any of them remain at Bushmaster) over 20 years ago, I don't know that you can count that one.

-ACR...?
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Designed and engineered by Magpul, who certainly has a great reputation in that regard. The design is relatively simple and robust and certainly no more complicated than other stuff that Bushmaster has been producing successfully for years.

Realistically, I agree it is a good move for both companies and probably the only way we would see the rifle in quantity before 2009. I was just a little disappointed because although I own two Bushmasters and have dealt with them a fair amount, I don't perceive them as having the same devotion to customer care and QC that Magpul does. So it makes me a little more wary given the usual teething problems that accompany a new rifle.
 
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As much as I like Bushmaster, I will admit I am concerned. Let's not forget about the BAR10 that Bushmaster offered. I own a Bushmaster and it has never given me any issues, BUT I fear that trying to mass produce the Masada will turn out like the BAR10. I for one will be holding off on the purchase until it has been tested for at least a year.

I was really looking forward to purchasing the Masada, but this news changes everything for me.

To the guy trying to compare the Mini14 to any AR15 or Masada...dude you need to try to compare apples to apples.
 
If that's the MSRP, I'll bet it sells under that once the initial orders are filled.

That price outs it in the same range as the SIG. I'd pay that.
 
I understand the fixed stock assembly can technically be switched out, but what happens if Bushy doesn't have folding stocks available to us mere mortals before the next ban? Then we're stuck with a fixed stock just like we were for ten years during the Clinton ban.
 
Will the "Masada" be DOA?

Judging by the response to the host of "Future Weapons" on this and other online forums I'd say that he makes alot of internet "experts" feel inadequate.
Kinda funny.
 
Judging by the response to the host of "Future Weapons" on this and other online forums I'd say that he makes alot of internet "experts" feel inadequate.
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I dunno. I have a friend who does a lot of work with the teams (he was specwar when he was in full time, now he's a reservist, but still working alongside them). He says that if the host was, in fact, a SEAL, it's funny that none of the SEALS claim to have worked with him and that they all think he's a boob.

Mike
 
Can't wait for the Masada. Magpul simply doesn't have the volume manufacturing capabilities to pull this off by themselves. A top of the line CNC HMC with cell/APC systems or a turning center with hydro barfeed and all the high-speed low-drag machining goodies and supporting tooling can exceed a million bucks per piece of equipment.

One good example is Microtech's spinoff--Microtech Small Arms Research. They've had a lot of delays and problems with getting their initial MSAR STG-556 to market with subsequent parts recalls and replacements. It's a great product, but its not easy starting from scratch. They had to settle with cheaper Haas machinery to build up their factory manufacturing ability, and they're nowhere near production volumes of AR vendors (the initial run was only 1500 limited edition rifles). Several times they've had bad batches come back from vendors so they had to scrap a batch of parts and make more. Stuff like that really sets back your time tables.

Never had a problem with Bushmaster. People on ARFcom used to hold them in high regards when the AR game wasn't as widespread and it was commonly "buy the ABC (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt). Then specialty boutique companies like LMT, Noveske, White Oak, and the like came to the market to offer factory upgraded stuff people were wanting.

Suddenly, previously well-received AR brands aren't worth a damn and you need to spend $2000 on a MkIIVXXIILOL MOD89234 AR and all else is crap. Whenever a BM, DPMS, or similar messes up, everyone flips out. People ignore the positive comments and focus on negatives ones. However they seem to ignore problems whenever they arise on Colts and boutique brands. Reminds me of Honda owners. :barf:
 
He says that if the host was, in fact, a SEAL, it's funny that none of the SEALS claim to have worked with him and that they all think he's a boob.
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Being a SEAL is a pretty bold claim to not be true. That one would be outed in no time.


-T.
 
I dunno. I have a friend who does a lot of work with the teams (he was specwar when he was in full time, now he's a reservist, but still working alongside them). He says that if the host was, in fact, a SEAL, it's funny that none of the SEALS claim to have worked with him and that they all think he's a boob.

Mike
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A moderator spouting hearsay?

By the looks of his age he was probably in when I was, I never heard of him either, so what?
I think it funny that when the topic of "Future Weapons" comes up people bash the host. Let's face it, most of us would kill for a paying job like that.

I think that all of the negative things people online have to say about the guy come from jealousy and envy.

One other thing, who cares what other people, Seal team members or not, think, especially of other people that they don't even know?!?
 
That means I must be jealous of the overly dramatic host of Scariest Police Chases too, sheriff John Bunnell.
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I feel dirty just reading that. He's got to be one of the most annoying people on television :)
 
SEALs and Masadas, Oh my!

The dude from Futureweapons (Richard "Mack" Machowicz) is really annoying on-screen. I don't much like his stage persona. However, that's all show business. In person, I bet he's a lot more tolerable. The list of trigger-pullers that can read lines and handle a compressed production schedule is probably not that long.

I'm glad Bushmaster is handling the production of the Masada. They make good equipment. I hope they have the right capacity open for this.

Magpul seems to have designed a compelling product. It doesn't look like they're positioned to execute on it in any quantity. That isn't a huge deal, IMHO...there are endless examples of design houses that produce through well known manufacturers (or anonymous overseas shops). That's not foreign to the firearms market. John Browning didn't crank out all those rifles and pistols from his shop in Ogden!
 
Being a SEAL is a pretty bold claim to not be true. That one would be outed in no time.
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I'm just relating what he said, as he said it. FWIW, I don't think he was doubting he was in the teams, either. He just thought it was funny that no one that he knows in that pretty tight-knit community was willing to say that they worked alongside of him. What I took away from that is that he may not have been in for long or impressed many people when he was there. I dunno.
A moderator spouting hearsay?
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And I plainly stated it was such.
By the looks of his age he was probably in when I was, I never heard of him either, so what?
I think it funny that when the topic of "Future Weapons" comes up people bash the host. Let's face it, most of us would kill for a paying job like that.

I think that all of the negative things people online have to say about the guy come from jealousy and envy.
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No, mostly it's the fact that he has to pick up a fairly mundane item, lean in really close to the camera, and say
THIS is a CELLULAR TELEPHONE. You can use it to make PHONE CALLS. All you need to do is be in an area where you can get a SIGNAL, and then you just PRESS THIS SERIES OF NUMBERS followed by the SEND BUTTON, and you will be connected to someone ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GLOBE. That's what we call COMMUNICATION.
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It just gets really annoying, and makes the show almost unwatchable.
One other thing, who cares what other people, Seal team members or not, think, especially of other people that they don't even know?!?
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...and, why are we having this conversation, exactly? ;)

Mike
 
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Bravo Coronach! You took the words right out of my mouth. I don't like the host because he is a bad host, not because he was a Navy seal. All the props to him for being one of our nation's finest but being one does not make him some kind of god that makes us overlook the fact that he makes the show almost unwatchable for me. Mall ninjas might get all excited when he starts talking in his secret squirrel dramatic language, but it just does not appeal to me. When I was in I worked with Socom types too, I respected them but did not worship them. They are just human beings that are exceptionally talented at a very dangerous and important job. Still that does not mean they are prefect at everything else in life, far from it. The good one know that fact and the bad ones don't. He is just a bad host, Seal or no Seal and from the amount of response, most people agree with me.
 
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