G3 or FAL

[Slimjim]

Which gun Would be better to get, i love the styling of both, and im looking to buy a MBR in this caliber, IT has to be able to shoot the Surplus stuff on the market right now. I found the PTR-91 close to 700 dollars, but cant find a fal around that price. I dont want a century arms gun. But i want something thats good. Without going into the priceing of the DSA's. but i might have to.

What do you guys think of the PTR's. Im really thinking of ordering one from sarco.

What are the benefits/disadvantages of each one?

 

[LiquidTension]

I built my FAL up from a kit, it wasn't tough. I had my gunsmith buddy barrel it and find a locking shoulder out of his bin of the things. You can get a DSA FAL for $800 last I checked. I little more expensive, but worth it IMO. They use the same kits that I built mine up from - Austrian STG-58. I haven't shot the HK much, but I like my FAL better. Of course, I could just be jaded because it's mine

Accessories and stuff are easier to find and cheaper for the FAL. Mags are about $5 each through DSA if you buy 10 of them. Well, used to be that way, haven't checked recently.

 

[hksw]

Have samples of both types. Out of the box, I like the feel of the G3/CETME over the FAL due entirely on the grip angle. This can be fixed (at least for the way I feel about it) by swapping out the rakish grip of the FAL for one that is a little more vertical lke the M249-like grips that you can get at TAPCO and other FAL parts sellers. (This I've done with both of my FALs.)

Other than that, you can't go wrong with either. The FAL is a little easier to field disassemble though and does have some degree of modularity in that the upper can be swapped out easily.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the G3 clone :
1. is more rugged and take more abuse
2. is cooler due to it's polygonal rifling and roller-delayed operating system
3. is self adjusting for different power levels of ammo
4. has the best set of battle sights i've ever used
5. is actually more modular than the FAL (besides the upper, the trigger group, buttstock and all furniture swap out)
6. comes apart by pushing out 2 pins
7. easy scope mounting (factory QR)
but...has:
1. expensive mags
2. expensive parts
3. a horrible trigger (unless you shell out for the target group $$$)
4. harder to reach safety and mag release

the FAL clone has:
1. readily available and affordable mags and parts
2. more user friendly safety, mag release, bolt release and cocking handle
3. better trigger
4. more conventional sights
5. manually adjustable gas system

the FAL is more classic (an older design)
the G3 is more modern (requires less maintence)

 

[Norton]

I've been going through the same dilemna for several months. I was fortunate to get to go to a group shoot at Water and Wings up in PA a while back and one of the guys happened to have just about every MBR platform ever designed. Then there was a guy with an M1A.

Looking at the .308 weapons.....the PTR91, STG58a, and M1a were all outstanding with regards to accuracy, reliability, etc.

The M1A had that nice feel of a heavy wooden stock and the advantage of being a similar manual of arms as my Garand. Plus it bump fired

FAL and PTR91 were 6 of one....half dozen of another. Both were accurate, comfortable. Trigger is crapper on the PTR91 but at least it will be consistent with my USP9

The base PTR91 can be had for around $700 (unless you go to Valley Guns on Harford road where it was $1000)....leaving room for a whole lot of ammo compared to the entry level DSA SA58 (made from all new parts, as opposed to the Austrian parts guns, STG58a)

 

[jacketch]

the G3 clone :
1. is more rugged and take more abuse

I think that statement is highly debatable.

Both systems have strong and weak points in regards to how robust they are.

 

[Nando Aqui]

I had a DSA SA58 (the 'cadillac' of FAL's?) and sold it.
1. Did not care for any of the available scope mounts and how they attached
2. Did not like to clean the rifle with the scope mount attached (if detached requires rezero)
3. Never able to get consistent acceptable accuracy (say 2-MOA) regardless of ammo, scope, scope mount.
4. Did not cycle well with some ammo and had to fiddle with the gas setting.

Have an HK91A2 - my favorite rifle. (Don't know how it compares to clones.)
1. Have removed and reattached the ARMS claw mount with scope at least 50 times and have never had to readjust for zero. Dead-on every time.
2. Accuracy of 2-MOA from its bipod and using Port or Aussie ammo. Once shot 20 rounds, 18 of which were in a 1-1/2" group at 100-yards, firing one shot every 3 seconds - WITH THE CRAPPY TRIGGER! (Getting read to have it worked on...) The other two shots were about 1/2" higher and lower than the rest.
3. Have never had any functioning problems of any kind.
4. Magazines ARE NOT EXPENSIVE! New ones can be found for $9 or less, used ones in excellent condition for $6 or less. A year ago I bought my last four, new in wrapper, for $7 each at a show.
Check this site: http://www.cdnninvestments.com/hk.html
5. Easiest to take apart - until you get to the bolt, which scares some people. BUT, once you learn how to do the bolt, it is really a piece of cake. Honestly.

But as I said, I am talking about an HK91, which run around $2000...

Perhaps someone could compare the HK91 with the clones?

Just my 2¢

 

[kfranz]

G3 related

1. expensive mags

Both the FN and G3 mags run about $3 each. I find the FN rifle to have better balance. Never put many rounds through a G3 clone, but it "feels" too front heavy for my taste.

 

[Kramer Krazy]

I definitely agree with Nando on the G3/HK91 magazine issue. I just bought a pack of six, brand new, H&K mags with 1979 dates on them, still wrapped in the original cheese cloth for $5 each, at a gun show last month. I have a Springfield Armory SAR-8, but haven't spent much time with it to give any real evaluation of it. I prefer my AR-15s, so far, but really like this G3 clone. One day, I'll get an FN-FAL, too, but that will have to wait. I believe that you will like whatever you decide on getting. Both are nice guns, but there definitely seems to be more parts available for the G3 guns, at least from what I've seen at local gun shows and surfing through the Shotgun News.

 

[MrMurphy]

Having shot the M1A, FAL, HK91 and CETME in large amounts except for the CETME (only 120 rounds).

I prefer the FAL for military use and the M1A's a close second for everything else (better trigger and sights).

The G3/HK91 is good, but the ergonomics suck (they're better on the MP5, which is a miniaturized G3).

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Gave myself a JLD PTR 91 for Christmas.

Not having a great deal of experience with the FAL or the MIA I'll limit my comments to the PTR91.

Weather hasn't been the greatest but have managed to sight it in and put about 120 rounds through it. This is a really fun rifle. I'm glad I shelled out the extra vs getting a Century CETME or G3. Fit finish and function excellent right out of the box. Granted 120 rounds isn't a lot but no malfunctions of any kind.

I really like the sights on this rifle. I'm not much of a shot with open sights, (middle-aged, & 4-eyed), but I was shooting honest to goodness 4 inch groups at 100 yards with surplus Portugese ammo. The trigger does need help but I seen and shot much worse. Mine has a lot of creep.

On the down side my PTR 91 trashes the brass and tends to throw it everywhere. Hopefully there's nobody on your right hand side side at the range. Use surplus ammo, the cases are not reloadable coming out of this rifle.

Just ordered 5 new HK mags from CDNN for $8.99 each.

FWIW
Take Care

 

[AZ Jeff]

No one has talked much about the ergonomics of these 2 rifles. When you do that, the FAL-type is head and shoulders above the G3-type. To whit:

1. the safety selector on the G3 requires VERY long thumbs to reach while holding the pistol grip in the normal manner
2. the magazine latch on a HK-91 type rifle CANNOT be reached unless one removes their hand completely from the pistol grip. The original G3 type rifles, with the trigger group held in by 3 pins, has a better mag latch, but that was lost when HK made the trigger group ATF compliant. I don't know if ALL the G3 clones out there sport the G3 style mag latch or the one for the HK91, but be aware of the BIG difference.
3. the sights on a G3 type rifle, while excellent in terms of sight picture, are DIFFICULT to regulate without a special tool for elevation adjustment. A needle nose pliers will substitute, but it's clumsy.

A couple more comments:
I always found the length of pull of the stock on a G3 rifle to be a bit short, and I often found myself getting bumped in the nose on recoil by the rise of the stock by the rear of the receiver.

If one reloads their own ammo for a G3 type rifle, it's ESSENTIAL that the rifle be equipped with an "Ejection Port Buffer", so as to lessen the denting of the cartridge case bodies when they exit the rifle. Without this, the brass is virtually unusable. (The fluting does NOT inhibit reloading, but a folded case sure does!)

 

[Feanaro]

1. the safety selector on the G3 requires VERY long thumbs to reach while holding the pistol grip in the normal manner

I'm not sure how long my thumbs are compared to most people's, they're around 2 and 1/2 inches long. I can easily reach the selector from my normal grip. But my hands might be of the long variety. And the selector on my CETME appears to be a smidge different from the HK91's. A navy style grip can be had here. This gives better access to the selector without requiring a new trigger pack.

2. the magazine latch on a HK-91 type rifle CANNOT be reached unless one removes their hand completely from the pistol grip.

My CETME has a mag latch similar to the HK91, at least it looks be to. I keep my right hand on the PG and use my left hand to reload. I pull back the charging handle as normal, reach my hand around the magazine well(from the underside) and hit the latch.

3. the sights on a G3 type rifle, while excellent in terms of sight picture, are DIFFICULT to regulate without a special tool for elevation adjustment. A needle nose pliers will substitute, but it's clumsy

Yeah, that is one of the biggest weaknesses of the rifle, IMO. Right behind lacking a last shot hold open feature.

The G3 series doesn't sit well with some people as far as ergonomics go, so I would handle before you buy. Both are reliable and accurate. It really comes down to how well they handle. I have heard some people say that disassembly of the G3 is hard. It's pretty easy to me, save for the trigger pack. It's a little hard to line up correctly. But after a few take-downs I can do it easily.

Taking the bolt down the first time might be hard but only if you don't know the secret. The bolt won't go back if it's "in battery". That seems to be where most people get stuck. Put the bolt into the frame backward and hit it.

 

[shoobe01]

The ARMS mount for the FAL is very, very nice. Near perfect re-zero even if slid off the receiver.

Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. This mount is cheaper than that HK claw mount, but that isn't saying a lot. As far as I can tell, all others are junk.

If you have any normal HK mount, scope mounting sucks because its so high. B&T make ultra-low mounts that allow you to (barely) co-witness with an M68 aimpoint. Neat.

I had this decision to make a few years back. I have been insanely happy with my choice:
http://shoobe01.homeunix.net/~shoobe01/gun_photos/578.html

 

[Slimjim]

I like the lack of bolt hold open. The AK is the same way. I mean, when the bolt is closed on the last shot your most likely down to your pistol and engageing targets. Dragging your rifle along with you trying to reload. Atleast thats what they were thinking. Keep dirt out of the action.

 

[SMGLee]

I like the FAL the best. fast mag release, bolt held open, good placement for the safety/selector, ease of take down. cheaper parts and more available parts also.

I have both and love them equally. if i had to take a MBR, i would take the FAL.

 

[Ian]

I'm a lefty. I hate that charging handle on the HK. I do like FALs, though.

 

[iamkris]

Definitely do a search on this. This subject has been covered at least a dozen times on this board. In the end it comes down to personal preference. BY the way, you can EASILY get a high quality FAL for near $700. Check out Ohio Rapid Fire. Also, DSA's STG58A is $795 dealer price...find a transfer dealer.

I have owned a HK G3 (Century C91 that was a perfect build...not typical Century crap) and a DSA STG 58A. I still own the FAL and sold the G3...here's why:

FAL wins on the following
* FAL has overall superior ergonomics for me
* FAL has bolt open (G3 does not)
* Couldn't reach either selector without changing grip...can fix that on FAL with L1A1 selector
* FAL mag release is easier to manipulate (assuming no paddle release on G3, if so then equal)
* FAL charging handle is in appropriate place (what idiot puts the charging handle near the muzzle of a rifle?)
* FAL breaks down/easier to clean and maintain MUCH easier than G3. WAY better than the G3 with the clunky pins, removal of the buttstock, trigger pack sitting on a shelf that as to be JUST so.
* FAL has more simple locking mechanism
* FAL is "prettier" (subjective)
* FAL has adjustable gas system (but I personally don't see that as a big deal)
* Aftermarket Goodies -- FAL hands down. Easy to build (not as easy as an AR) and lots of companies supply aftermarket stuff for them...not so many for the G3


Here's where G3 wins
* Feels slightly more balanced/handy (subjective)
* G3 mags are better designed and snap in with more authority

Ties:
* Weight -- about the same
* Reliabilty -- HK fans say their system is more reliable. FAL was choice for 90+ countries and piston op gas systems are uber reliable. A wash in my opinion.
* Cost -- About the same -- Century builds of either ab out $500, PTR91 to ORF / DSA about $700-900, the real deal about the same.
* Both are accurate for a MBR (2-3 MOA) ... HK fans will sy that their rifle is more accurate but I can find equal number of accurate / inaccurate G3's and FALs from people I know. My DSA will shoot 1-2 MOA with Port surplus
* Both have similar recoil but impulse is different



That's it...usiing those criteria, FAL wins hands down for me. YMMV

That said, I will eventually buy a PTR91 (the only decent HK clone...save maybe Ohio Rapid Fire build). I've actually been in love with the HK91 since I was a kid...warts and all.

 

[444]

Didn't we just have this discussion within the last couple weeks ?

Couple random comments:
I have been buying HK G3 magazines for something like $2 each. I saw an ad the other day for 100 magaines for $150. I don't consider $1.50 very expensive.

If you want to read a very good head to head evaluation of these rifles, buy a copy of Boston's Gun Bible.

I have a couple HKs I put together from kits, an STG58 kit on a DSA receiver, and an M1A. My preference would be: M1A, G3, FAL.

These HKs we put together from kits are VERY accurate. In a turkey shoot I hit a steel plate (approx. 2'x2') at 400 yards 3 times out of 5 offhand. And still lost to a guy shooting an M1A.

The FALs have never done anything for me. Clunky is the word that comes to mind.

 

[jacketch]

Definitely do a search on this. This subject has been covered at least a dozen times on this board. In the end it comes down to personal preference. BY the way, you can EASILY get a high quality FAL for near $700. Check out Ohio Rapid Fire. Also, DSA's STG58A is $795 dealer price...find a transfer dealer.

I have owned a HK G3 (Century C91 that was a perfect build...not typical Century crap) and a DSA STG 58A. I still own the FAL and sold the G3...here's why:

FAL wins on the following
* FAL has overall superior ergonomics for me
* FAL has bolt open (G3 does not)
* Couldn't reach either selector without changing grip...can fix that on FAL with L1A1 selector
* FAL mag release is easier to manipulate (assuming no paddle release on G3, if so then equal)
* FAL charging handle is in appropriate place (what idiot puts the charging handle near the muzzle of a rifle?)
* FAL breaks down/easier to clean and maintain MUCH easier than G3. WAY better than the G3 with the clunky pins, removal of the buttstock, trigger pack sitting on a shelf that as to be JUST so.
* FAL has more simple locking mechanism
* FAL is "prettier" (subjective)
* FAL has adjustable gas system (but I personally don't see that as a big deal)
* Aftermarket Goodies -- FAL hands down. Easy to build (not as easy as an AR) and lots of companies supply aftermarket stuff for them...not so many for the G3


Here's where G3 wins
* Feels slightly more balanced/handy (subjective)
* G3 mags are better designed and snap in with more authority

Ties:
* Weight -- about the same
* Reliabilty -- HK fans say their system is more reliable. FAL was choice for 90+ countries and piston op gas systems are uber reliable. A wash in my opinion.
* Cost -- About the same -- Century builds of either ab out $500, PTR91 to ORF / DSA about $700-900, the real deal about the same.
* Both are accurate for a MBR (2-3 MOA) ... HK fans will sy that their rifle is more accurate but I can find equal number of accurate / inaccurate G3's and FALs from people I know. My DSA will shoot 1-2 MOA with Port surplus
* Both have similar recoil but impulse is different

That's it...usiing those criteria, FAL wins hands down for me. YMMV

I would agree 100% on that info. Well put.

 

[NMshooter]

If I was forced to choose between those two, I would go with the FAL.

My chances of making the FAL into something acceptable are far greater than with any HK variant.