Gang Banger Sign Language Interpreter?

[CZ-75]

Seriously, in your first post I thought you were joking until I read this.

Nope, 'fraid not.

Let's see.

Dressed like a gang-member? Check.

Don't speak the language? Check. (Hard to earn a good living honestly if you don't. Usually means you work low-wage manual labor jobs.)

Expensive piece of property that would excede their probable means? Check.

Familiarity with said piece of property? No. (Usually things like this tip police off that a car has been stolen. Why not a gun?)




In my part of the real world, that's certainly cause for concern or to investigate.

I'm sure it's different in N. Dakota.

A few indians (or rednecks, just to be racially sensitive) off the reservation raising hell is the extent of the problem, huh?

 

[spacemanspiff]

now hold on a minute there cz-75....
although i always come off as a bigot and have my own strong opinions about everything, did i just read you correctly in saying that people who dont speak the language and likely work manual labor are 'suspect' in your eyes??

has every manual laborer you've encountered been untrustworthy? a thug?

thats like saying every hispanic knows where to get the best deals on weed, seeing how tons and tons of it flow into this country from mexico.

there are lots of honest people that dont speak english and work hard for their money at honest jobs. they do landscaping, janitorial, auto detailing, auto mechanics, construction, etc. they dont have to know english, just have a supervisor who can communicate with them what they need to be doing.

i am a bigot, but only towards those individuals that have proven they dont deserve my respect.

 

[CZ-75]

did i just read you correctly in saying that people who dont speak the language and likely work manual labor are 'suspect' in your eyes??

When they have expensive property in their possession that would seem beyond their means? Yes.

Do you think illegals working construction, in the fields or landscaping, in a restaurant, etc. earn enough to buy such an expensive extravagance? Part of the reason these guys are hired is they work cheap and are exploitable. They can't complain or INS hauls them away when the employer tips them off.

Would I question the same situation with some scumy looking white guy owning the gun? Yes, but not to the same extent (he could be a guy who has a skilled blue collar trade, certainly at above minimum wage), so I am biased. Sue me.

Not speaking the language isn't enough, though. The clothing, the behavior, the lack of familiarity, probable socio-economic status all add up.

 

[TheOtherOne]

In other words... if you don't choose to dress whrighte, to act whrighte and talk whrighte you're up for scrutiny as a likely criminal?

 

[spacemanspiff]

alright, i did misread your statements. it is a COLLABORATION of variables that paint the entire picture.

i wasnt saying bias is necessarily a bad thing. if it is fueled by personal experiences then i feel a person has every right to be biased. its when someone sits around saying 'i dislike ******** because my daddy told me they do ***** and *****.'
thats ignorance, not personal experience.

 

[CZ-75]

In other words... if you don't choose to dress whrighte, to act whrighte and talk whrighte you're up for scrutiny as a likely criminal?

Doing all those things doesn't set one up as likely to have good earning power, so having expensive property would seem antithetical to one's likely means.

 

[spacemanspiff]

cz-75, could you explain in a little more detail how it is that you determine if a person has enough earning power to own/possess expensive property?

for example, you're at the firing range, you see someone across the way that has nice hardware. what are you looking for to determine if they are actually legitimate?

 

[CZ-75]

wasnt saying bias is necessarily a bad thing. if it is fueled by personal experiences then i feel a person has every right to be biased. its when someone sits around saying 'i dislike ******** because my daddy told me they do ***** and *****.'

Folks who can't speak the language generally don't earn much.

Hispanic folks who can't speak the language are generally illegal, due to our proximity to Latin America and the ease of which persons from this area can get here. Russians, Chinese, etc. can't swim here, so it is less likely they are illegal, but not impossible, as those being smuggled on freighters and cargo containers attest.

Illegals earn less than even legal immigrants w/ poor English comprehension, for the reasons of high-turnover to avoid deportation, exploitation, ignorance of the law, etc.

Gang-members seem to have an inability to follow the law, as an understatement. Gang-members cultivate a "look" to identify themselves to one another, possibly the community at large. They certainly like to "tag" their territory. They also have money since legal means to earn money are no concern.

Gang membership isn't limited to the US. There are Mexican, Jamaican, Columbian, etc. gangs.

Those who look like they are A) gang-members and B) illegal immigrants possess a dichotomy. Illegals don't earn much (legally) and gang-members break the law, but do have money garnered through illegal means.

I see nothing irrational in my concern and suspicion about the legal acquisition of their firearm and probable intent for its use.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i suppose a persons location also dictates the opinions. up here in Alaska, we see few illegal immigrants compared to the states in the southwest.
we have lots of russians and eastern europeans. a lot of serbians, yugoslavians, and all those countries that dissolved when the USSR broke apart.
i think our largest hispanic community is made up of dominicans.
and we have a huge filipino and korean community as well.

plus up here, the scruffiest looking of all could be a successful businessman who earns a living commercial fishing, oil industry, etc.

 

[CZ-75]

Going on looks isn't fail safe. Actions speak louder, but I won't drop my guard just because it isn't PC to stereotype, until the actions demonstrate intent.

Going back to the original scenario, these gang-looking possible illegals who didn't seem to understand the language could've nodded and said "gracias" rather than making unknown gestures and bantering to each other when Porter showed them what the ejector is for. Would've gone a long way toward easing suspicions, rather than increasing them.

 

[Wilhelm]

You guys are at the very least entertaining. I own a roofing company. I have 3 brothers that are not illegal but you wouldnt know that by looking at them. I pay the oldest $30 an hour and the other 2 $25.00 an hour. I think maybe just maybe they might be able to afford a Python. Maybe.




Wilhelm

 

[Porter Rockwell]

What A Slice!

Well I've read the responses and held off on commenting until now.
It's very sobering to see politically correct gun owners that fail to see their own hypocracy and oximoronic beliefs.
PC is a radical left wing stratagy designed to baffle weak minds.
Clothing makes the man, is that the old saying? When some people choose to dress as gangsters why should'nt we assume they're gangsters until proven otherwise?

If Mike Tyson, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dog and many more icons all engage in stereotypical behaviour is it racist to define it?
In my short online counter culture research I ended up at at a FBI statistical study that includes race tho hispanics are lumped in with whites the numbers are revealing truths not spoken in public.
I live in a relatively small city and try to keep tabs on the several local counter cultures that local police tend to ignore (just like your cities I'll wager!), information is then distributed to the Neighborhood Watch.
FYI, I am a range officer and have handled thousands of folks guns over the years, when I see unsafe gun handling, gun malfunctons or a new gun I've not seen I'll be there.

 

[CZ-75]

I have 3 brothers that are not illegal but you wouldnt know that by looking at them. I pay the oldest $30 an hour and the other 2 $25.00 an hour. I think maybe just maybe they might be able to afford a Python. Maybe.

That's nice. How many illegals make even a third of that? Or legal immigrants, for that matter? Your anecdote.

 

[TheOtherOne]

It's very sobering to see politically correct gun owners that fail to see their own hypocracy and oximoronic beliefs.

Did someone call me PC? I guess I can see how you would get that from my posts but if you knew me, you would be laughing.

Maybe I just like giving people, who's only faux paus is speaking a different language, dressing funny and not knowing the ins and outs of their new gun, the benefit of the doubt.

Did they flash "gang signs" at YOU or were they just playing around with each other? Did they call you names for helping them out? Were they rude and beligerent? A few minorities with a gun at a gun range, speaking spanish aren't going to alarm me. I'll shoot back when they shoot at me, not jump to conclusions before hand.

 

[Sisco]

I believe I understand the point CZ-75 is trying to make.

You can't judge a book by its cover but if you read between the lines you can tell what it's about.
Close enough?

I live in a reliatvely small town with a high percentage of immigrant popuation due to the beef packing industry. I'd say 80% of the Hispanics that come here to work, legally or otherwise, are decent hard working folks. The other 20% give them all a bad name with their meth makin', crack smokin', don't you diss' my lowrider attitude.
The gang bangers are pretty easy to tell from the honest folks. Not a stereotype, it's the image they want to project.

 

[Yuck Mouth]

I find some of this talk amusing. Most young people don't dress like gangbangers. Most gangbangers dress like them. If your from an inner city neighborhood the style of dress is usually baggy pants and some oversized shirt with a sports team on it or something. Thats just the style of dress. Not everyone wants to dress like Poindexter or Biff from the 'burbs.

I don't think I'm being pc, i just try not to pass judgement on people till I know them or get a wiff of their personality.

Also how do you ascertain a persons 'earning power' based on how they may dress or talk on the weekends or outside of work?I f

 

[Tall Man]

A bumpy road since the opening post

You can't judge a book by its cover but if you read between the lines you can tell what it's about. Close enough?

Close, Sisco. Now let's take this all the way home:


You can't judge a book by its cover.

But you can tell how much it costs.


Ladies, the state of readiness is nothing more than a prudent response to circumstances.

Porter made a salient point, one that does not deserve the whipping that it has received in this thread.

Tall Man

The TFL Alumnus formerly known as Tall Man.

 

[ed dixon]

Many suburban white boys perpetrate this same style of dress, talk, and attitude. Many folks period act like giddy idiots when they get their hands on a firearm for the first time with no supervision or guidance. Many "inner-city" kids come by these same "customs" in a more direct way and yet happen to be basically decent, benign guys with no ill will in their hearts. I understand the more skittish members here who are unnerved by this scenario -- sometimes you should be. I'd have to have been there to give a real opinion. But I wonder how many times the good guys (like us) get the dirty stares just because they don't conform to Aunt Esther's version of a nice boy. (Elvis looked like a hoodlum, right?)

 

[CZ-75]

But I wonder how many times the good guys (like us) get the dirty stares just because they don't conform to Aunt Esther's version of a nice boy. (Elvis looked like a hoodlum, right?)

If your actions match your look....

Some of those suburban white boys copping a "gangsta" look actually ARE gang members. In case you haven't heard, Crips and Bloods are franchising and small cities and the 'burbs are untapped markets for "home-made pharmaceuticals." It isn't a race-based judgment. Thinking folks with increasing degrees of pigment represent an increasing level of threat can get you killed by those whom you least expected.

One more point about illegals, which is that these folks often come from places where the rule of law is negligible, the cops commit many of the crimes, and a checkbook assures acquittal. The violent element contained therein is probably less afraid of the consequences than our homegrown criminals and could easily wind up outside our borders once again, effectively out of the reach of US law.

 

[ahadams]

guys, y'all can argue back and forth all you like, but I've been cruised by gang bangas and done the I'm not going to notice you because if I do I'm gonna have to kill your *** back and forth with gang bangas too ( the latter was in ALEXANDRIA VA, not in DC proper at all - anybody tells you they're only in DC is ignorant or lying) and if you can't smell it when you see them then you shouldn't be playing the game. I was not and never will be interested in reading their sign, I just want them to know that if they mess with what's mine they'll pay. why do you worry about all this other stuff anyway?

Man am I glad we moved to Missouri!

 

[hondo68]

Bang0phobia

Is a serious disorder. It's not cool to make fun of the bang0phobically challenged.

 

[CZ-75]

Man am I glad we moved to Missouri!

Where? Unless you're out in the stick a ways, I don't think you're safe.


KC (and 'burbs), St. Louis (and 'burbs), Columbia, St. Joe, Springfield all have their problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff City, Joplin, Cape Girardeau, Kirksville, Sedalia, Warrensburg, etc. have them too.

 

[Tamara]

CZ-75,

I worked for years at a gun shop in Forsyth County, Georgia which has (due to the presence of a Tyson Chicken plant) a fair-to-middlin' hispanic population.

More than one guy who couldn't speak a word came in and dutifully plunked down his money on a layaway gun every payday. These guys had pretty bucks-up taste in guns, too; Colts or S&W's for the most part, especially .38 Super 1911's and any vent-rib barrel Colt wheelgun (Python, Diamondback, Anaconda). Sometimes it took 'em six months to pay off the gun, but we never complained because they were regular as clockwork on their payments. Frequently their wife would have to fill out the Orange (Spanish) 4473 for 'em when they finally paid it off, as they couldn't read, either.

Just an anecdote...

 

[CZ-75]

These guys had pretty bucks-up taste in guns, too; Colts or S&W's for the most part, especially .38 Super 1911's and any vent-rib barrel Colt wheelgun (Python, Diamondback, Anaconda). Sometimes it took 'em six months to pay off the gun, but we never complained because they were regular as clockwork on their payments.

Perhaps that's my problem - I think of these as extravagances for folks with a higher level of income.

At least they seem to have good taste (guns, not clothing, should they dress anything like the first post indicated).

 

[Yohan]

According to some of these people, you'd think black or hispanic people who happen to dress a certain way shouldn't be allowed to carry weapons. How very mature