Getting a LAWFUL gun back from police in MASS?

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First, you need to chill out big time, QMan. One gun isn't the end of the world, and it can be replaced.
As a general proposition, that is a HORRENDOUS attitude.

Assuming that he has a LEGAL right to the gun, why on earth should he allow somebody to STEAL it? If he has a LEGAL right to the gun, someone attempting to EXTRALEGALLY retain possession of it is THEFT.

When is it EVER a good idea to countenance theft, and especially theft by public servants?

He needs to bring this matter to a lawyer well versed in the relevant law. If he has no LEGAL right to the gun under the circumstances, a lawyer will tell him so. If he has a LEGAL right to the gun and somebody interferes with that right, that is a civil tort. Relief could include return of the property, compensation for the "conversion" of the property, compensation for negligent or intentional damage to the property, and reasonable legal fees incurred in recovering the property.

Encouraging theft has no conceivable upside.
 
Relief could include return of the property, compensation for the "conversion" of the property, compensation for negligent or intentional damage to the property, and reasonable legal fees incurred in recovering the property.

With a very large amount of emphasis on the "could".
Easy enough to say when someone else is footing the bills.:mad:
 
Easy enough to say when someone else is footing the bills.
When you let somebody steal from you, you've ALREADY "footed the bill".

And that's not to mention the fact that you've given them an incentive to steal in the future.

When is encouraging theft a GOOD thing?
 
As a general proposition, that is a HORRENDOUS attitude.

Assuming that he has a LEGAL right to the gun, why on earth should he allow somebody to STEAL it? If he has a LEGAL right to the gun, someone attempting to EXTRALEGALLY retain possession of it is THEFT.

When is it EVER a good idea to countenance theft, and especially theft by public servants?

He needs to bring this matter to a lawyer well versed in the relevant law. If he has no LEGAL right to the gun under the circumstances, a lawyer will tell him so. If he has a LEGAL right to the gun and somebody interferes with that right, that is a civil tort. Relief could include return of the property, compensation for the "conversion" of the property, compensation for negligent or intentional damage to the property, and reasonable legal fees incurred in recovering the property.

Encouraging theft has no conceivable upside.

Did you even read my post? Do so again, more carefully. And stop getting him wound up, he doesn't need to deal with the police/judges all ticked off.
 
Go to the cop house and ask for it.
1. Consult a lawyer first to see if you have a LEGAL right to the gun.

2. Bring a lawyer with you to pick up the gun.

Some people think it's fun to mess with somebody, off the record, who doesn't know the law.

It's rarely fun to mess with a lawyer, on the record, about a matter in which he's both well versed and well prepared.

Going to the cops and asking for the gun is a voluntary official interaction with the police. You should NEVER have voluntary official interactions with the police without legal counsel present.
 
Did you even read my post? Do so again, more carefully. And stop getting him wound up, he doesn't need to deal with the police/judges all ticked off.
I wouldn't have seen the catastrophically bad advice without reading it.

HE shouldn't "deal with" the police/judges AT ALL. That's why there are lawyers.

Competent legal counsel will tell him whether he's LEGALLY entitled to get the gun back.

If he's LEGALLY entitled to get the gun back, letting somebody STEAL it is ALWAYS a bad idea, every bit as bad as Cabela's allowing people to steal guns out of their display cases.

When is encouraging THEFT a GOOD thing?
 
When you let somebody steal from you, you've ALREADY "footed the bill".

And that's not to mention the fact that you've given them an incentive to steal in the future.

When is encouraging theft a GOOD thing?

I believe the bottom line of his point is something like:

If the "solution" to a $500 problem costs $1,000, then no solution is the preferable course of action (ie, logical, least costly, etc, etc).

IF the OP has to get a lawyer involved in this, he's more than likely going to spend more on legal fees than the value of the gun, with -no- assurance that he will get the gun back, or get it back in usable condition.

Does that bite? Yes it does. Welcome to reality. (unless, of course, you are willing to pony up the $'s for the OP's legal fees)
 
I believe the bottom line of his point is something like:

If the "solution" to a $500 problem costs $1,000, then no solution is the preferable course of action (ie, logical, least costly, etc, etc).

IF the OP has to get a lawyer involved in this, he's more than likely going to spend more on legal fees than the value of the gun, with -no- assurance that he will get the gun back, or get it back in usable condition.

Does that bite? Yes it does. Welcome to reality. (unless, of course, you are willing to pony up the $'s for the OP's legal fees)
Legal fees are often recoverable, sometimes by statute.

Again, encouraging theft is a general harm to society. Encouraging theft by public employees is a much worse detriment to society.

I can see no upside to encouraging theft.

Consulting competent legal counsel will tell you IF it's theft.
 
Maybe you could try the ACLU? It's just crazy enough to work.

I mean, if they can get a Jewish guy to defend neo-Nazis...
 
A friend got his glock confiscated by police in California. He is a Texas resident. When he picked up his gun, the lady said she's never seen a civilian get his/her gun back.

Good luck,
 
A friend got his glock confiscated by police in California. He is a Texas resident. When he picked up his gun, the lady said she's never seen a civilian get his/her gun back.
Perhaps nobody bothered to take the appropriate steps to get their gun back. What does that teach somebody who illegally tries to keep it? It certainly doesn't teach them to respect property rights under the law. Nobody seems to be able to tell me when breeding disrespect for the law is a GOOD thing.

A person who does not protect his rights under the law effectively has no rights.

You can be 100% in the right, but if you just roll over every time your rights are violated, anybody can do anything to you. And you can only expect the frequency and magnitude of that "anything" to increase over time. That's not the kind of society in which I choose to live.

1. Know the law.
2. Obey the law.
3. Know your legal rights.
4. Don't EVER let somebody violate your legal rights without a fight.
 
Thank you all, so very, very much for your support in the matter. I know you folks disagree in the best plan of action, and that's ok, that's why I threw the question out to a public forum, and I thank you all and appreciate sincerely all of the advice. You all want to see a lawfully purchased gun returned to its rightful owner, and therefore you are all on my side. Thanks again.

I promised a report yesterday after I spoke with officer Mogan, and I apologize for not replying until today. This is a short outline of what she and I discussed yesterday afternoon.

Officer Mogan is the official state police evidence officer where my gun is being held. She was courteous, and kind enough to return my call after I left a message stating my attempt to reach her, and my inquiry as to how to get my gun back. This is a major step over and above any and all other police I've dealt with up there so far. In other words, this officer felt like she wanted to be helpful, and was not unkind or pushy about the situation.

She instructed me to wait out the six months while the cwof is pending. No surprise there, and I was actually not upset about that instruction, because I sort of expected it. But her second instruction was that I would need to get a concealed carry card in Mass before I could pick the gun up, since they can not lawfully hand it back to me without my having one. I said, "Yes Maim you can, there is an exemption for out of state target shooters going competition shooting in Mass, for out of state residents, and that is why I wasn't found guilty in court in the first place. You surely can legally hand it back to me, without contributing to a crime," and she respectfully, and carefully retorted that there was no way the police would hand a gun to any person, in or out of state resident, without a Mass issued carry card.

I then commented that I won't be able to get a card during the six months because one of the questions on their app will prevent it, since I am apparently "under information for a crime that has a potential max jail sent that exceeds one year" and her comeback to that was that I may have to wait out the six months, then apply after the cwof drops, then wait until the permit clears, (if it EVER does since I technically got arrested up there, and being found not guilty or dismissed does not guarantee approval since they are not a shall issue state) so her answer was that I could get it back in about nine months, or potentially never.

My next request was that she ship the gun to the MD state police. I am perfectly able and legal to own the gun here in MD, even with the cwof. I just can't "purchase" right now. She said no. I then asked her if she would ship the gun to the MD state police, who would release it to me through their office, after the six months was up and therefore negate the need for their concealed carry card. She said no to that too, and claimed that it was illegal for her to ship the gun outside of MAss, which is obviously not true.

Clearly, they have no intention of ever returning it, so I told her that I am aware about the shenanigans seven miles away in Holland Mass where officer Gleason, was busted for selling guns stolen from evidence, and she assured me that my gun was safe in her hands, locked behind three doors was the term she used, and that as soon as I was in a "legal" position to take possession of it there in person, she'd "see about getting it back to me."

Her last instruction was to call an office of firearm records in Chelsey Mass, and run the scenario by them, for a second opinion and further instruction.

My lawyer at the moment, is looking into the matter, and hasn't stated anything about it yet.

The judge at pre-tril was already asked to rule about the firearm, right then and there by my counsel. His reply to my counsel was, "The state police have Mr. Mise's gun, and I'm not getting between you and them. You work it out with them to get the gun back."

I am prepared to spend up to another $1500 to get my $500 gun back just to clear a path for fellow gun owners to have a set of procedures for lawful return set in place. But if its going to cost more than that, I'll drop the lawyer expenses, and next time I drive through just file a civil suit against the police dept for a few hundred bucks and let them spend their time and money defending it. This last step of course won't occur until after the six months are up and they run me around again.

Thanks again for your support, and concern, and I'll keep you posted as the case unfolds.

-Quentin Mise
Romans 10:13
 
I would be frustrated also. IIRC both the 5th and 14th Amendments guarantee a person may not be deprived of LIFE, LIBERTY or PROPERTY without due process of law. Why the Judge did not make a judicial decison concerning the firearm is beyond me...unless he is an anti-gun advocate and just wanted to make it difficult for you to obtain it back. If there was a legal reason not to return the firearm then the judge should have said so. If there was no legal authority to forfeit the firearm then the judge should have ordered it returned. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned contacting the NRA about the matter. At the very least they should be able to give you some advice and a attorney to contact with experience in such matters.
 
The judge didn't seem to be anti-gun to me honestly. He answered all of my questions, and helped steer me in a direction of making informed choices, and if I had to say so, my hunch was that he was protecting me from the DA up there. The DA wanted my blood, (just because I"m an out of state gun owner, my criminal record was spotless until these folks got ahold of me so it wasn't like she was trying to protect society from a gun slinging killer or something.......) but the judge seemed like he was on my side a bit. He had to put me on cwof for something just to protect the police from looking like they made a bad arrest, or else the DA would have pushed for a trial, just like I could have pushed for one, so I think the judge got me out of there as unscathed as he possible and legally could.

As for why he wouldn't rule on the gun issue? Well, my guess is that there is controversy in the police dept right now over this Mr. Gleason in Holland MAss who was selling the evidence guns. And my guess is that there are safety concerns with handing confiscated guns back out to just anyone, and my guess is that the judge was afraid to make a ruling. I think he was legitimately scared to say one way or the other on the gun itself. He did say that the police had the authority to give it back, and they won't, so we can honestly say that the MAss state police just likes to confiscate guns, and keep them, or withold them. There is evidence to support that.

I'll be calling the NRA back again to update them on my case, but not until after I speak with the "Chelsey" gun records office. They are the next stop for now, as I was instructed by officer Mogan.

Thanks again to all,
-Quentin Mise
Romans 10:13
 
You do realize, of course, that no matter what, when the 6 months are over they either:

1) won't be able to "find" your gun.

2) it will have been involved in an unfortunate forklift/acid bath/dropped into a wood chipper accident.

That said, I AGREE that you should get your gun back. I AGREE that the MA State Police have no right to your gun. I support your effort to get them to do the right thing.

However, to get this "done right", so that NO ONE ELSE has to put up with this bovine-scat, you are going to have to get some financial and logistical support from somewhere (NRA, ACLU, etc, etc) as this is likely going to take years and 10's, if not 100's of thousands of $ in legal fees. (Remember Heller? $4.3 MILLION at last tally)

Oh, and don't worry to much about the MA State police having to spend too much of "their" money.... NONE OF IT IS THEIR MONEY. It's the taxpayers of the state of MA's money. The MA State police will be more than happy to spend unlimited funds on this, and to drag it out for years.
 
Lawyer up.

Unfortunately, it will cost you a lot more than buying a new gun.

I'm wondering if you can pick up the gun, disassemble it, ship part of it back and carry the frame with you out of state?
 
Remind me to NEVER go to Massachusetts. I hate the Red Sox anyway.

I do recommend that you do report the gun stolen or missing. If this police department is corrupt and your gun does get "sold", you don't wnat your name then associated with it.
 
goal.orggo there ,establlish contact and try to get them involved-they ARE the statewide organization that is SUPPOSED to stay on top of this stuff.
 
But her second instruction was that I would need to get a concealed carry card in Mass before I could pick the gun up, since they can not lawfully hand it back to me without my having one.

Can she hand it to a person who is acting as your agent and who has the right to carry? For example, you could hire an off-duty cop to be "in possession" while you pack the gun and take it to the PO or UPS for shipment to your residence.
 
now that's an idea. once you get beyond the fact that they have your gun and they are never never never gonna give it back, you could amuse yourself with the following scenario.

"Ok, Ms. Jones, I understand that you cannot give the gun to me. That's fine. I've given up any hope of ever seeing this gun again. But I have sold the gun to Mr. Smith, a registered Mass handgun permit/carry/holder/whatever. Here's a notorized bill of sale. Could you please advise of the steps required for Mr. Smith to take possession of his new gun?"

Her response to this will tell you that you'll never ever get the gun back.
 
I do recommend that you do report the gun stolen or missing. If this police department is corrupt and your gun does get "sold", you don't wnat your name then associated with it.
Right now, the gun is evidence. Until the six month good behavior period is up, and the case is closed, the state needs to have the gun in case for some reason this mess goes to trial.

Chances are, the OP will not be able to obtain a non-res LTC. IIRC, one of the requirements is that you have an LTC or CCW in your home state. The OP is from Maryland, so I doubt he has or could obtain one.

The best thing for the OP to do is get a good lawyer to see if he can work something out with the police (or go to court if he thinks there is a chance).
 
You should contact GOAL in Ma and get the number of either Darius Arrabi or Keith Langer,they are highly versed in the firearms law of Mass. If you can get this mess cleared up as an out of state applicant you stand a better chance of getting a LTC than those of us who live here. If you go to Norteastshooters.com Darius is under the screen name of Cross X. FYI to get a Ma non resident LTC you do not need a permit from another state.
 
I know that in matters of the Constitution, principle is a very important thing. One then needs to weigh that with some rather sobering scenarios or factors...whatever.

What is the likelihood of getting one's gun back from a state like Mass? I wonder if anyone has in recent history? If not, you've got some thinking to do.

Can you or will you place a dollar value on fighting for your principles? In other words, is it worth spending $6,000 in lawer's fee over what is surely to be a time frame measured in years to get back a $600 gun? For that money you could buy 10 of them and you be making quite a statement about your rights just by doing that!

Tough situation. Lawsuits of any sort go on forever, and ever, and ever. Not the least bit inconceivable that a suit could drag on for 10 years...I know of two with extended family members that did. Gotta weigh that in too.
 
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