vis-à-vis
Member
I have a Mosin Nagant that I want to give to my best friend. We're both 24. His residence is in Ohio and mine in Kentucky? Legal?
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Gift Rifle to Out of State Friend
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Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Member
Yes but use an FFL.
You ship to FFL.
Your friend goes to FFL and picks up weapon.
Most FFL charge a fee of $5-$25 for a transfer.
You ship to FFL.
Your friend goes to FFL and picks up weapon.
Most FFL charge a fee of $5-$25 for a transfer.
vis-à-vis
Member
Might as well buy a Mosin where he is at if I have to do all that.
Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Member
Yeah it sucks. In state would depend on your state laws.
For VA you could just hand the weapon over - no paper work.
Once it becomes interstate the big bad fed wants to make it complicated.
For VA you could just hand the weapon over - no paper work.
Once it becomes interstate the big bad fed wants to make it complicated.
NavyLCDR
member
Just to clarify what Happiness said:
It is illegal for you to give it directly to your out-of-state resident friend. It MUST go through an FFL. If the transfer is in person, depending upon both state laws, the transfer may occur in person at an FFL in either state. It would be legal, regardless of state laws, for the transfer to occur at an FFL in the recipient's state either in person, or if you shipped it to the FFL.
It is illegal for you to give it directly to your out-of-state resident friend. It MUST go through an FFL. If the transfer is in person, depending upon both state laws, the transfer may occur in person at an FFL in either state. It would be legal, regardless of state laws, for the transfer to occur at an FFL in the recipient's state either in person, or if you shipped it to the FFL.
vis-à-vis
Member
This is stupid.
I called the ATF yesterday and Shooter's Supply, the local gun shop in Louisville. They had conflicted opinions. ATF says what you guys say, but that in either Ohio or KY, a long gun can be transferred to an out of state resident. The two folks at Shooter's Supply say that an FFL transfer is not necessary: "Just make up a bill of sale & receipt as it is between two individuals."
It seems that all they want me to do is record my crime. I'll call another FFL. Hopefully I can get it done for under $25.
I called the ATF yesterday and Shooter's Supply, the local gun shop in Louisville. They had conflicted opinions. ATF says what you guys say, but that in either Ohio or KY, a long gun can be transferred to an out of state resident. The two folks at Shooter's Supply say that an FFL transfer is not necessary: "Just make up a bill of sale & receipt as it is between two individuals."
It seems that all they want me to do is record my crime. I'll call another FFL. Hopefully I can get it done for under $25.
There is no uncertainty about this one. The dealer must not of understood that you are residents of different states. If you are selling or gifting a firearm to a resident of another state, the firearm must be transfered through a FFL in the receiving person's state of residence. This has been federal law for 40 years.
NavyLCDR
member
the firearm must be transfered through a FFL in the receiving person's state of residence.
This is true of handguns. However, if both the giving person's and receiving person's state laws allow transfer of longguns to out of state residents by FFL's, then the transfer can take place by an FFL in either state, just as the ATF has confirmed.
vis-à-vis
Member
The dealer must not of understood that you are residents of different states.
Nah. It was a repeated point of contention.
Robby
Member
I am a KY resident, but I understand that I can go to Ohio, buy a long gun and take ownership of that gun. There is something to do with the adjacent states and the law. Check it out, thru KY or Ohio laws.
However, if I get a handgun, it must be shipped to an FFL in KY, from the Ohio dealer, or person.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/OHSL.pdf The following is from Ohio law.
Any adult resident of Ohio, not prohibited from
acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun
or ammunition in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan,
Pennsylvania or West Virginia. Any adult resident of
Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West
Virginia, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may
purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Ohio. Any
such purchase must be for such purposes and under
such circumstances as required by federal law.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf
Purchase
N o state permit is required to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
Residents of the Commonwealth of Kentucky who are citizens of
the United States shall have the right to purchase or otherwise acquire
rifles, shotguns, handguns, and any other firearms which they are
permitted to purchase or otherwise acquire under federal law and the
Kentucky Revised Statutes from properly licensed dealers, manufacturers,
importers, or collectors, and unlicensed individual person in
Kentucky or in any other state or nation outside of the Commonwealth
of Kentucky.
However, if I get a handgun, it must be shipped to an FFL in KY, from the Ohio dealer, or person.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/OHSL.pdf The following is from Ohio law.
Any adult resident of Ohio, not prohibited from
acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun
or ammunition in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan,
Pennsylvania or West Virginia. Any adult resident of
Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West
Virginia, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may
purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Ohio. Any
such purchase must be for such purposes and under
such circumstances as required by federal law.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf
Purchase
N o state permit is required to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
Residents of the Commonwealth of Kentucky who are citizens of
the United States shall have the right to purchase or otherwise acquire
rifles, shotguns, handguns, and any other firearms which they are
permitted to purchase or otherwise acquire under federal law and the
Kentucky Revised Statutes from properly licensed dealers, manufacturers,
importers, or collectors, and unlicensed individual person in
Kentucky or in any other state or nation outside of the Commonwealth
of Kentucky.
Chipperman
Member
It's simpler than that. You both get C&R licenses, then you can send it directly to him with no dealer involved. You'll both be better off, too.
From Chapter 237.020 of the Kentucky Revised Statutes:
From the above contention that no FFL is required for transfer of long guns, the above section from KRS, and the similar OH law posted above by Robby, it would seem that you could just hand it to him. Note, though, that I am not a lawyer.
(2) Residents of states other than the Commonwealth of Kentucky who are citizens of the United States shall have the right to purchase or otherwise acquire rifles, shotguns, handguns, and any other firearms which they are permitted to purchase or otherwise acquire under federal law and the Kentucky Revised Statutes from properly licensed dealers, manufacturers, importers, or collectors, and from unlicensed individual persons in the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
From the above contention that no FFL is required for transfer of long guns, the above section from KRS, and the similar OH law posted above by Robby, it would seem that you could just hand it to him. Note, though, that I am not a lawyer.
Chipperman
Member
No, it would violate Federal law.
Match14
Member
As posted by Robby,
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/OHSL.pdf The following is from Ohio law.
Any adult resident of Ohio, not prohibited from
acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun
or ammunition in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan,
Pennsylvania or West Virginia. Any adult resident of
Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West
Virginia, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may
purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Ohio. Any
such purchase must be for such purposes and under
such circumstances as required by federal law.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf
Purchase
N o state permit is required to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
Residents of the Commonwealth of Kentucky who are citizens of
the United States shall have the right to purchase or otherwise acquire
rifles, shotguns, handguns, and any other firearms which they are
permitted to purchase or otherwise acquire under federal law and the
Kentucky Revised Statutes from properly licensed dealers, manufacturers,
importers, or collectors, and unlicensed individual person in
Kentucky or in any other state or nation outside of the Commonwealth
of Kentucky.
The underlined portions lead me to believe that an FFL is indeed needed for a firearms transfer. I am not a lawyer though.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/OHSL.pdf The following is from Ohio law.
Any adult resident of Ohio, not prohibited from
acquiring firearms, may purchase a rifle, shotgun
or ammunition in Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan,
Pennsylvania or West Virginia. Any adult resident of
Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or West
Virginia, not prohibited from acquiring firearms, may
purchase a rifle, shotgun or ammunition in Ohio. Any
such purchase must be for such purposes and under
such circumstances as required by federal law.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/KYSL.pdf
Purchase
N o state permit is required to purchase a rifle, shotgun, or handgun.
Residents of the Commonwealth of Kentucky who are citizens of
the United States shall have the right to purchase or otherwise acquire
rifles, shotguns, handguns, and any other firearms which they are
permitted to purchase or otherwise acquire under federal law and the
Kentucky Revised Statutes from properly licensed dealers, manufacturers,
importers, or collectors, and unlicensed individual person in
Kentucky or in any other state or nation outside of the Commonwealth
of Kentucky.
The underlined portions lead me to believe that an FFL is indeed needed for a firearms transfer. I am not a lawyer though.
Legal, if it goes through an FFL:I have a Mosin Nagant that I want to give to my best friend. We're both 24. His residence is in Ohio and mine in Kentucky? Legal?
To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
Etc.
yeti
Member
(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
Just lend it to him..........forever.
vis-à-vis
Member
Just lend it to him..........forever.
DOH!
Now that term "temporary" is very subjective? 100 years? 10 days?
What do the rest of you think?
Robby
Member
From what I have been able to get from the state laws. It is a long gun, and either an Ohio resident can buy a long gun in KY, from face to face, or receive it as a gift with no FFL involved. A KY resident can go to Ohio and buy a long gun the same way.
If it is a hand gun, the applicable law requireing an FFL on the receiving end applys
If it is a hand gun, the applicable law requireing an FFL on the receiving end applys
NavyLCDR
member
It is against federal law (18 USC 922 to be exact) for a non-licensee to transfer (sell or give) any firearm, longgun or handgun, to a non-licensee who is not a resident of the same state, period.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Also illegal according to 18 USC 922 for a person to receive the firearm, longgun or handgun, into a state from an out of state source:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
The state laws allowing sales to occur in bordering states, etc, are to comply with 18 USC 922:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
The state laws set forth the legal conditions of sale.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Also illegal according to 18 USC 922 for a person to receive the firearm, longgun or handgun, into a state from an out of state source:
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
The state laws allowing sales to occur in bordering states, etc, are to comply with 18 USC 922:
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
The state laws set forth the legal conditions of sale.
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