glass bedding/free floating Remington 700

[ballistic gelatin]

My Father has a Remington 700 (.270) with lightweight barrel and synthetic stock that he had Glass Bedded and Free Floated to increase accuracy. Now the rifle won't hold a group or shoot consistently for anything. He has tried reloads, factory ammo, etc. and nothing works.

He has asked me to help him.
Do I need a kit to bed the action myself?
And if so, where can I get one?

Can you offer some adivce on
bedding the receiver or
bedding the barrel or
free floating the barrel or what?

He was so dissapointed with the workmanship, that he wouldn't take it back to be corrected. Now it has been a couple of years. He also removed the glass bedding that was put in.

thanks

 

[Nero Steptoe]

The flimsly plastic stocks to which you refer are essentially worthless. I think Remington literally pays $10 or so per stock. They're not rigid enough for free-floating and bedding, ergo, your father's lousy experience.

Best bet would be to invest a little money in a better, more rigid stock.

 

[saands]

Nero,

Just curious, but why would a stock need to be stiff to allow you to free float a barrel? I'm not gunsmith and I have no experience with the Rem synthetics, but it seems to me that you could free float a barrel on anything that was stiff enough to keep its own self from touching the barrel when in use. I can see that you might not be able to guarantee the free floating condition with just the typical 0.005" of clearance that you can check with a dollar bill ... but if you increase the clearance a little, how could the barrel tell how stiff the thing was that it was floating above?

I'm going to bed and float a Mauser in a Core-lite synthetic stock this weekend, so if I'm missing something, I'd REALLY like to be enlightened soon!

Thanks!

Saands

 

[Zeke Menuar]

Nero is correct, if you can afford a better stock, buy it.

I have a Remington tupperware M700 in 270 also. I bedded the action and free floated the barrel as a training excercise. I used the minimlist approach and only put the Acraglas where there was contact between the action and the stock. The barrel is free-floated all the way to the reciever. I also bedded the recoil lug. Didn't change accuracy much, but it got rid of an annoying flyer. The rifle shoots great now. Well enough that I am not going to replace the tupperware stock in the foreseeable future.

Check your scope and mounts.

Put a business card in between the barrel and the forearm at the end of the stock. This will put some pressure on the barrel. Some rifles shoot better this way.

If all else fails you could get another tupperware stock or two and try it yourself and see if it helps. Those cheesy stocks are out there and they are very cheap.

Good luck
ZM

 

[4v50 Gary]

Dad removed the bedding and with it the evidence. Try rebedding again. The backside (towards the shooter) of the receiver lug and the bottom of the lug must have complete contact and no motion. Try replacing the screws with hex screws and torque them down to 45 lbs. too. Do the dollar test (dollar bill should slide all the way from the muzzle to the recoil lug.

On the recoil lug, the side towards the muzzle is less critical as it does not bear the stress like the backside does. One Remy engineer told me that the front bears no stress at all.

Also missing from the question is how fast your pop shoot. He still has that lightweight barrel on it, doesn't he? How fast does he shoot it and does he allow it to cool between shots? Thin barrels are accurate, but don't let them heat up lset they whip around like a wet noodle.

 

[ballistic gelatin]

Concering fast shooting: he usually puts three through it, walks the 100 yards, shakes his head in disguist. I believe he lets it cool between groups.

Zeke, what kind of groups do you get?

Where can I get the supplies to re-bed?
Instructions?

Concerning buying a new stock:
We can't seem to find a wood stock to put it in. The rifle doesn't say "mountain", "adl", "bdl" or anything. It just says Remington 700. It has a short action and the barrel is satin stainless and lightweight. He wants to get it ready for hunting season.

He prefers the Remington .270 over the Winchester .06.

 

[saands]

BG ... I guess your post brings up a good question ... can you quantify "won't hold a group or shoot consistently for anything" ... are we talking 8 inch groups? 4 inch groups? 2 inch groups?

As for supplies, Brownells is a good place to start for the bedding compounds ... instructions can be found in a million places on the internet, but I'd just use the search here for a good start ... or search the archives at: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/

I'd say that you should be able to expect almost any bolt action rifle with almost any ammo to get smaller than 3 inch groups at 100 yds ... if you want to get less than one inch, you probably need to do some experimenting with different loads.

Saands

 

[Zeke Menuar]

In my entirely unscientific testing consisting throwing a jacket in the top of my car and using that as a rest. I average about an inch at 100 yards or 125 paces. This is using my standard bumming around load of 60gr of H4831SC and ordinary 130gr Hornady SP bullets. Some of my other loads using boat-tails will shoot clover-leaf groups if the sun and moon are in proper alignment and I didn't drink too much coffee. My groups are 5 shot groups and I do wait a minute or two between shots.

I am not much of a "shoot for group" guy. I tend to be the "make the first shot count" and "how fast can I get off the first shot accuratly?" kind of guy. Most of the time the Tupperware special hits the target on the first shot.

I bought the Acraglas kit at Sportsman Warehouse in Salem. You can order it direct from Brownells if you want. The instructions are pretty straightforward. Any other questions I had were answered from the kind folks on various internet forums like this one.

BDL means it has a floor plate. ADL means it has a blind box. If it is a 270 you have a long action.

Note: If I shoot a 3 inch group offhand that means I am having a good day. If your father is trying to shoot bugholes offhand you might suggest some sort of rest to shoot from.

ZM

 

[Nero Steptoe]

Bearing in mind, of course, when I'm referring to Remmy's cheap (Win. uses 'em too) plastic stocks, I'm not talking about the H-S Precision stocks. On the cheap, flimsy, stocks, I don't believe that there's enough material in the barrel channel such that removing enough to free-float wouldn't adversely affect the structural integrity of the stock. In other words, it'd be extra-flimsy, if you removed material from the barrel channel.

Since you don't have anything to lose by rebedding, you might consider just bedding the recoil lug and tang areas with something like Akraglass or Marine Tex. I personally prefer Marine Tex, but lots of others use different bedding material.

While I don't think the Hogue Overmolded rifle stocks are truly outstanding, I'd think that they'd be a big improvement on that cheap plastic Remington stock. The Hogue stock isn't expensive and is available either with an aluminum bedding block or pillar bedding.

 

[HankL]

B.G., The lightweight barrel may yield better accuracy if it is shimmed near the fore end. After you have re bedded the rifle you can check this by adding enough thickness in the barrel channel to create a pressure point with some heavy paper stock. If this helps you can create a permanent pressure point with some bedding compound.
HTH

 

[ballistic gelatin]

Thanks for the info.

Shooting is from a benchrest at 100yards.
The groups are more like 4 inches.
The rifle doens't appear to be prejudiced, it produces inconsistencies with every shooter.

I'm gonna find some supplies, do some work and get back at ya'.
Thanks again.

 

[Gun Plumber]

Bedding rifle barrels, etc...

OK kiddies, gather round. If you want to take notes, grab the pen and paper.

A rifle barrel vibrates after every shot. There are several ways to control this. Bedding is the most efficient.

First off, you will need the bedding materials. I buy all my stuff from Brownells, but I am registered with them as a gunsmith for years now. You can get it other places. Brownells sells coloring agents to mix into bedding materials to match the color of the stock you are bedding.

First, you need to go to the local plumbers supply place and buy a roll of their 3" wide black plumbers tape. Take your calipers with you, because it is EXACTLY .005 in thickness. USE TWO LAYERS all the way to the front of the stock. I have found that 0.010 is a much better spacing than 0.005. Especially if you will be using this rifle in ALL SORTS of weather (hot and cold). Don't forget to LIBERALLY COAT all areas that ARE NOT to be bedded with either release agent or a car wax like carnuba (the higher quality, the better). Also, once you have poured the bedding material in and remounted the barrel/receiver, make sure to wipe off all excess or you will be sanding or chiseling it off when it hardens (personal experience speaking on this one).

If you are having problems with accuracy and want to bed the receiver, the same goes, but I DO SUGGEST that you properly post the mounting screws. I use a properly drilled bar stock aluminum that I turn in the lathe to cut grooves in so it gives the bedding material something to hang onto. You can use a hand drill to drill the proper size hole and a hacksaw to score the aluminum with. AND DON'T tighten screws down too tight after you have poured the bedding or you will have a mother of a time getting them apart again, even with release agent. Childrens clay works REALLY WELL at helping you 'dam off' areas you DON'T want to bed.

Also, consider using weight in the front (and rear) parts of the stock. I melt down used wheel weight I get for free. I melt it down, pour it into the stock and after it's cooled THEN I bed the stock. But if that's not doable, consider using shotgun pellet or BB'smixed in with the bedding compound. And DON'T forget to balance out the stock by filling in the cavity behind the receiver. Remove the buttpad or plate and fill recess with bedding compound. NOT all the way, cause she will rise a very small amount. ALSO, be prepared for bubbles in your bedding compound after it's dried. IT'S NORMAL. You can fill bubbles by mixing very small amounts of bedding compound and filling the holes, and if you want to speed the process, microwave the mixed compound for about 5 seconds and it will really heat up.

Finally, other than having a gunsmith trueing the receiver, consider a larger recoil lug. Tubbs, Holland and Shilen all make one and sell it through Brownells (pg 32 of catalog #53 - the one I keep on my desk). Yes, you will have to remove and then replace the barrel and if you aren't competent at this already, consider your local smith. Finally, remove that sporter barrel (#2 or #3 contour) and step up to a Varmit barrel (#7 or #8 contour). You will be shocked at how much better that rifle will shoot.

The nice part about all this is that YOU CAN DO all but the final step yourself. Hope this helps

 

[ballistic gelatin]

you guys are awesome!

 

[Nero Steptoe]

I'm sure I'm missing something, but are you saying that you pour molten lead into a plastic stock without causing the stock to melt?

 

[Gun Plumber]

Properties of LEAD

Yeah, but you have to be pretty quick. I've set the ladle down for about three minutes and it skimmed over so bad I had to do a quick reheat with my oxy/actelene torch to get it to flow.

Like anything, it's just practice, practice, practice. Lead cools off fairly quickly. And I only pour in a little, let it cool, poor a little more, let it cool, etc.

If you are feint of heart, I have buddies that just make lead ingots and put them in place of pouring molten lead in. And I will admit, I normally only do this on higher quality stocks. Haven't tried it on a really flimsy (read thin) synthetic stock. I have done it on high quality syn stocks with no ill effects. Just remember that gunsmithing is like making sausage or watching the political process. IT'S REALLY MESSY until the end product shows up.

So Caveat Emptor (buyer beware). If you don't feel comfortable pouring lead into your stock - THEN DON'T, find a small baking tin (about 1" x 3" x 2" - WxLxD) and pour it in there. Let it cool, pop it out of the 'mold' and it should drop right in. OR just use shotgun pellets or BB's mixed with bedding material. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Al Thompson]

FWIW, I've had miserable luck when working with the cheap stocks. I'd actually rather have a wood stock - takes to glass bedding much better.

Before I'd spend any more money, I'd switch stocks. Boyd brothers has some nice laminated stocks.

 

[zahc]

make sure it's not your scope!