OP
OP
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
I have few corrections/clarifications to make because of the "fog of match" issues on my part.
First, the Glock that had the mag catch break apparently did not break. That was what was initially stated. Inspection of the gun revealed that the wrap-around grip cover (whatever you Glockers call it) had apparently slipped over or otherwise interfered with the mag release, thereby not letting mags seat and remain seated properly. So that was a failure due to an aftermarket addition.
Secondly, the Colt Commander (because I "knew" the shooter to always use commanders in the past matches) was actually a Colt Gov. Model, full sized. My bad.
Other insights, the match was geared for 1000 rounds or thereabouts with a course of fire that was below that amount and that would allow for some misses and still reach 1000. I understand that of the last 4 guns (3 Glocks and the 1911), all passed 1000 rounds, but two of the Glocks failed before completing the match COF. As they failed to complete the COF, they were DQ'd.
Based on what I have seen in this match and the four previous ones in which I have participated, I have noticed a few trends.
Generally speaking, Glocks tend to be in the first group to crap out and in the last group remaining. That was the case today. 3 Glocks in the match didn't go into double digit rounds, but 3 also went beyond 1000.
Glocks other than G17s tend to malfunction before G17s, especially if they are the baby Glocks or in .45 acp.
1911 problems tend to be geared mostly toward feed-related issues or slide stop related, but of course, most of the 1911s I see in these matches are .45 acp.
From previous matches, it has been my experience that far too many of both platforms fail much earlier than many of their owners believe will happen with their guns. Owners are always surprised if their guns actually have a part break.
Based on what I have seen, Glocks do tend to run better with dry rails than 1911s. Of course, 1911s tend to have much more rail contact surface area than do Glocks. As a result, lube is going to be more critical on the rails for 1911s than Glocks.
I have not seen where any particular type of ammo has proven superior to other types or brands, but have noticed that reloads have proven to be inferior and are a sure way to end up DQ'd.
While the matches do yield some interesting insights, there is no way for the matches to be very scientific given that the participants all come to the matches with guns of various ages/conditions/maintenance, brands/models of ammo, and shooter skills.
Sorry, I missed this query. Shooters bring whatever ammo they want to bring.
In all of the matches, there are always a goodly proportion of shooters and guns DQ'd because of operator errors such as failing to properly seat a mag, starting a stage without a mag in the gun (causing the gun to cycle after the first shot, but not lock back on empty as the mag isn't present), bumping or riding the mag catch/release, or otherwise interfering with the slide's travel.
It may be operator error (or may not), but the end result is that the gun fails to function properly. A mag may fail to seat because of damage to it, damage to the mag catch, weak mag catch spring, worn mag catch slot on a magazine, etc.
What I should have stated in posted number 1 was the explicit rules of the match. I apologize for not being clear, but it is tough to type very much very quickly with a little Blackberry while still participating in a match Here you go...
Rules...
1. If you pull the trigger and your gun does not go bang, you are out of the match.
2. There is no maintenance on any gun after the match starts. You can't lube the gun and if your sights fall off, either you quit or you shoot without sights, but you don't get to put them back on. You don't get to tighten screws or tap back in pins that have "walked" during the match.
3. A gun may not be hand cycled after chambering the first round of the day. You can sling shot or mag release to send the gun into battery after a reload, but you cannot cycle a gun already in battery in order to feed a new round into battery.
This is partially true. Depending on your perspective, you might say that the matches are a test of gun, operator, ammo, and magazines.
However, if you can figure out a better way to get a bunch of shooters together from several states (with associated travel costs) and spend $150-300 each on ammo in a match competition environment, please send us your plan or host the match yourself and invite us.
I guess all of the guns could have been fired from Ransom rests, but then we would just be testing how well the guns work from Ransom rests, huh?
There are a lot of Glockers who claim their guns are better. There are 1911 fogies who say theirs are better. The match is a sort of "put up or shut up" kind of event. Nobody really cares what happens in a sterile lab. None of us ever shoot there.
John, your idea sounds reasonable from a logical perspective. The problem is in getting folks to commit to attending this sort of match. Few folks have ever attempted to shoot 1000 rounds in a day. Many can't afford it and 1000 rounds may be all they ever shoot over a period of weeks or months, not hours. On top of that, of those who do commit, there are always several that fail to show.
Actually, this is the 5th I have participated in and the sixth I know about. Two others were held at TDSA in Texas. I participated in the second one there. We had 30 something shooters for that even and the results were posted on TDSA's website for about 3 years, but I believe are no longer there (not the last time I looked).
As for the previous 3 matches held at where we shot today, I don't know that the results still exist or not. Based on memory, two were won by Glocks, one by a 1911. The TDSA match I participated in was won by a 1911 (a STI double stack 9mm race gun, as I recall).
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The shooters of the match today were told the results were being posted here during the match. Maybe addition participants will post their observations or insights like 455SD.
First, the Glock that had the mag catch break apparently did not break. That was what was initially stated. Inspection of the gun revealed that the wrap-around grip cover (whatever you Glockers call it) had apparently slipped over or otherwise interfered with the mag release, thereby not letting mags seat and remain seated properly. So that was a failure due to an aftermarket addition.
Secondly, the Colt Commander (because I "knew" the shooter to always use commanders in the past matches) was actually a Colt Gov. Model, full sized. My bad.
Other insights, the match was geared for 1000 rounds or thereabouts with a course of fire that was below that amount and that would allow for some misses and still reach 1000. I understand that of the last 4 guns (3 Glocks and the 1911), all passed 1000 rounds, but two of the Glocks failed before completing the match COF. As they failed to complete the COF, they were DQ'd.
Based on what I have seen in this match and the four previous ones in which I have participated, I have noticed a few trends.
Generally speaking, Glocks tend to be in the first group to crap out and in the last group remaining. That was the case today. 3 Glocks in the match didn't go into double digit rounds, but 3 also went beyond 1000.
Glocks other than G17s tend to malfunction before G17s, especially if they are the baby Glocks or in .45 acp.
1911 problems tend to be geared mostly toward feed-related issues or slide stop related, but of course, most of the 1911s I see in these matches are .45 acp.
From previous matches, it has been my experience that far too many of both platforms fail much earlier than many of their owners believe will happen with their guns. Owners are always surprised if their guns actually have a part break.
Based on what I have seen, Glocks do tend to run better with dry rails than 1911s. Of course, 1911s tend to have much more rail contact surface area than do Glocks. As a result, lube is going to be more critical on the rails for 1911s than Glocks.
I have not seen where any particular type of ammo has proven superior to other types or brands, but have noticed that reloads have proven to be inferior and are a sure way to end up DQ'd.
While the matches do yield some interesting insights, there is no way for the matches to be very scientific given that the participants all come to the matches with guns of various ages/conditions/maintenance, brands/models of ammo, and shooter skills.
Sorry, I missed this query. Shooters bring whatever ammo they want to bring.
In all of the matches, there are always a goodly proportion of shooters and guns DQ'd because of operator errors such as failing to properly seat a mag, starting a stage without a mag in the gun (causing the gun to cycle after the first shot, but not lock back on empty as the mag isn't present), bumping or riding the mag catch/release, or otherwise interfering with the slide's travel.
It may be operator error (or may not), but the end result is that the gun fails to function properly. A mag may fail to seat because of damage to it, damage to the mag catch, weak mag catch spring, worn mag catch slot on a magazine, etc.
What I should have stated in posted number 1 was the explicit rules of the match. I apologize for not being clear, but it is tough to type very much very quickly with a little Blackberry while still participating in a match Here you go...
Rules...
1. If you pull the trigger and your gun does not go bang, you are out of the match.
2. There is no maintenance on any gun after the match starts. You can't lube the gun and if your sights fall off, either you quit or you shoot without sights, but you don't get to put them back on. You don't get to tighten screws or tap back in pins that have "walked" during the match.
3. A gun may not be hand cycled after chambering the first round of the day. You can sling shot or mag release to send the gun into battery after a reload, but you cannot cycle a gun already in battery in order to feed a new round into battery.
This is partially true. Depending on your perspective, you might say that the matches are a test of gun, operator, ammo, and magazines.
However, if you can figure out a better way to get a bunch of shooters together from several states (with associated travel costs) and spend $150-300 each on ammo in a match competition environment, please send us your plan or host the match yourself and invite us.
I guess all of the guns could have been fired from Ransom rests, but then we would just be testing how well the guns work from Ransom rests, huh?
There are a lot of Glockers who claim their guns are better. There are 1911 fogies who say theirs are better. The match is a sort of "put up or shut up" kind of event. Nobody really cares what happens in a sterile lab. None of us ever shoot there.
John, your idea sounds reasonable from a logical perspective. The problem is in getting folks to commit to attending this sort of match. Few folks have ever attempted to shoot 1000 rounds in a day. Many can't afford it and 1000 rounds may be all they ever shoot over a period of weeks or months, not hours. On top of that, of those who do commit, there are always several that fail to show.
Actually, this is the 5th I have participated in and the sixth I know about. Two others were held at TDSA in Texas. I participated in the second one there. We had 30 something shooters for that even and the results were posted on TDSA's website for about 3 years, but I believe are no longer there (not the last time I looked).
As for the previous 3 matches held at where we shot today, I don't know that the results still exist or not. Based on memory, two were won by Glocks, one by a 1911. The TDSA match I participated in was won by a 1911 (a STI double stack 9mm race gun, as I recall).
-----
The shooters of the match today were told the results were being posted here during the match. Maybe addition participants will post their observations or insights like 455SD.
