Got to handle a Kel-Tec SU-16 yesterday.....

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W Turner

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I am along time fan of the Kel-Tec product line that has had nothing but good experiences with the KT's that I have owned. That being I said, I was a little skeptical about their new .223 chambered rifle, the SU-16.

Yesterday I was at a local gun shop and just as I was about to leave, I spotted one hanging on the wall behind the counter. The salesman got it down for me to look it over. My first overall impression was very good.

The plastic furniture did not feel as cheap as it looked in all of the advertisements and the maching was of very good quality. I expected it to feel kind of like the HI-Point 9mm carbine, but it felt and hefted like a quality rifle. The trigger was decent, but with Kel-tec's reputation for being tinker-friendly, I am sure some people will be developing some improvements. The factory sights are a ghost-ring setup with an integral picatinny rail on the top of the receiver for mounting optics and are user friendly except that I did not see a way to adjust for elevation.

I did not field strip it, but the bolt looked as though it was hard chromed and cycled at least as smoothly as an AR. The 5rd. factory supplied mag is made of plastic and has a last shot bolt stop feature. The store had an AR 20 rd. mag stowed in the buttstock for display purposes and once I figured out how it came in and out, it was very easy to manipulate and still held the mag securely.

My only gripe was that the factory sights are plastic, not steel and the heavily advertised break down feature is not as convenient as that of the pistol caliber carbines. You have to have a punch or similar tool to knock out a steel pin. I did not try this in the store for obvious reasons, but it seemed more involved than that of the others.

Overall I was very impressed with the overall quality and features of this rifle and plan to buy one. Reports from the few owners of these at KTOG.org is that accuarcy is hovering at or around the 2" mark at 100 yds. If these rifles are consistently that much more accurate than Ruger's minis are, then I think that Ruger has some very stiff competition, especially with the added feature of being able to use AR magazines in the KT.

The only reason I did not buy the one that I looked at was price. I do not know what the MSRP is (~$700ish I think), but the people at KTOG have been reporting prices at the $475-$525 range and this one was priced at $638, so I had to pass.

Mino
 
If they could get the price of these down to the $350 range I think they would sell TONS of them ... but at the same price as an Oly "Plinker" AR, I don't expect them to fly off the shelves.

The only way I think they'll sell a lot of them is if they are California legal.
 
I've handled one, too, and the thing that impressed me was that it was so light. I had to hold on to it so it wouldn't float away.
 
Personally I'd have liked to see the SU-16 more in the pattern of the previous Kel-Tec Sub9 and Sub200.

Granted, the Sub carbines are inertia blow-back only with a massive bolt riding inside the stock tube, and a locking gas-operated centerfire rifle is a bit more complicated, but it could be done.

I would have made it break just like the Sub9, and to get around the limitations a gas-piston or an AR-style gas tube, or an AK style attached piston would create when desgining a "breech folding rifle", I'd have used a disconnected piston like the FAL, or a secondary captive short piston like the SKS has in it's rear sight block. If you had to have optics on a top folding rifle that badly, they could be forward "scout mounted" so when folded they tucked into a recess in the comb of the stock, perhaps covered with a spring-loaded "trapdoor" that provides a comfortable cheek-weld when opened and firing.

I think that the SU-16 is nice in many respects, but it's main feature, the folding action, dosen't fold tightly enough or quickly enough to be worthwhile.

In it's current form, they should have left the folding out of it, and put the cost savings twoards pricing the SU-16 as a "Mini-14 killer" that uses AR mags, considering Ruger's unwillingness to produce even 10 round factory mags for them. Since the SU-16 has a monte-carlo sporter-style stock retail outlets might be willing to stock it, and if they could price it at around $450 retail, they could possibly wipe the Mini-14 off the map.
 
I agree with Rupestris. For $630+, you could have a .223 Saiga, .308 Saiga, and a good scope to use on them. Two good rifles plus a good scope! Hard to pass that up.
 
Saiga's don't take AR magazines and they aren't American made. These two factors alone make many people steer away. There's also the takedown feature, easier scope mounting, lighter weight, stowable magazine, etc.
 
Valid points Badger, Only one of the firearms I own is an import. It’s an old Brazilian single shot 12ga. I do like US production but for me it comes down to price and intended use. I have no use for a folding/take down rifle (yet) and the price is, as mentioned, too close to an entry level AR.
I’ve never been a fan of AK’s or AR’s. The Saiga has only grabbed my attention because of the price, and its availability in .223. Even the local sporting goods chain has ‘em for $229. At that price I almost feel guilty for NOT having one yet.:D
If the SU-16 is what someone is looking for, by all means, get one. I should have put a little more into my post earlier. As mentioned, I’m glad there are more .223 semi’s coming out. The Mini14 and the AR seemed to have the market cornered. With the KelTec’s, Saiga, Saiga 100, and Saiga Pioneer, it looks like shooters on a shoestring budget (like myself) might have something that’s inexpensive and dependable. Accuracy will probably be sacrificed but you get what you pay for, right?
Right now my collection has quite a few holes in it. Maybe when they're full I'll have a different opinion of the stuff doesn't appeal to me today.

Mino,
Thanks for the post. (even tho it bumped the Polish Mosin Nagant out of my head and put the semi-auto .223 back in.:p )
 
I examined one at 'another major gun joint' in Anchoarge a few months ago. Price was good, but I'm sure it's gone by now. I echo what was said in previous posts. The gun seems much more solid than pictures might suggest. Still has the look of a plastic gun, just that the feel is more like that of a proper rifle. That disassembly pin SCREAMS for a Remington-style divit and a dedicated punch supplied with the gun for takedown. I'd imagine most of the SU-16's out there will end up with marred pins and surrounding plastic from butcher-takedown jobs. If it were me, I'd never fold it down with the current system.
 
Actually, I'm pretty confident my Saiga .223 will shoot better than most Mini14's. It costs a lot less, and is a more reliable design. Is it as accurate as an AR15? I'm not sure. Maybe not, but I doubt the difference would be much.
 
Well it showed up..I was impressed..folded up real nice, action seemed smooth, sights visible, pins went in and out easy, nice bipod, all in all a decent enough breakdown 223 for a mere $499..

And it was sold the minute I opened it up. Made someone else do the paperwork so I could play till it walked out the door.

Less than 2 minutes from receipt to sale, cant beleive it.

WildplasticgunAlaska
 
I handled one at a gunshow a few weeks ago.

Overall impression was good. The gun is LIGHT. There was a Beretta Storm 9mm carbine next to it and the SU-16 is VERY noticeably lighter.

I didn't like the built-in bipods as much as I thought I would. However, when folded they are very tight and don't wiggle or flop. So you could never use them if you didn't like them and you've lost nothing.

The pin which is removed to fold the buttstock is pretty tight and is not captive.

I'd bet that before too long, someone comes up with a pin that has a ring built into one end that allows you to yank it out easily to fold it quickly.

If this thing is ANYTHING like reliable and is as accurate (or more accurate) as the Mini-14, it's going to be VERY popular. It's way lighter and smaller (when folded) than the Mini and the AR-15 mag compatibility was a tremendously smart thing to do. Plus, everthing exposed but the magazine and barrel are plastic. That's very little to rust, dent or experience finish wear. This thing is the perfect truck/boat gun.

The front sights are plastic which seems a bit cheesy, but on the other hand, you could get rid of them with a dremel, put a compact red-dot scope on the integral rail and the gun would be still be just about compact. That front sight assembly is pretty large.
 
Does anyone make aftermarket sights for them and anyone that owns one care to comment on the number of rounds put thru it and the reliability and durablilty of it. Also is there a way to lock the stock so it will not turn into a bipod if the user doesnt want it to?
 
The forend locks in place...
I would add ...very securely.

Also, the locking/unlocking buttons are quite discreet. They're not hidden, but they don't look like buttons. They look like an inset in the stock.
 
If it is less than $500, heck, I'll buy at least two.

I bet my wife will love it too.
 
...is or may the SU-16 legal in CA?

The SU-16 is CA-legal. I've seen them for sale at a San Diego gun store, California Police Equipment Company, and that place is as straight-laced as they come. The rifle is amazingly lightweight. I've also seen one in action at a shooting range.

My guess is that folks who question its legality get hung up on the "folding stock" bit of California's AW ban. My understanding is that the SU-16 is not considered to have a folding stock, since it cannot fire folded: the firing mechanism actually folds away with the lower piece. The rifle is then not fully assembled, much as if you'd opened the receiver on a FAL.

My two cents,

PH

P.S. Kel-Tec should be ashamed of the sights. They're awful!
 
Pen's right. As the gun won't function with the stock folded, just like an over/under or M6 won't, the gun's CA legal. This was confirmed by my FFL by the CADOJ: he has one on order for me (and a few other members here). Now comes the lengthy wait for production to meet demand.
 
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