Gun Fit

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Pete409

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I posted the following comments on a thread when someone recommended that the person shopping for a new shotgun should "buy the gun that fits you." I thought these comments might be applicable to other shooters besides just the ones who were reading that thread. So, here are my thoughts on "buying a gun that fits."

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I take a different approach to shotgun fit. Buy the gun you LIKE, then take the necessary steps to make the gun fit you. Why buy something that you don't like, that may not be reliable, may not be suitable for your needs, and may be ugly as heck...... just because it kind of "fits" you?

For a beginning shotgunner, gun "FIT" is only an approximation anyway. Until the beginner has shot many thousands of rounds, he/she won't have a repeatable shooting style anyway. Gun fit depends to a large extent on shooting style, and shooting style is something that often changes as the shooter develops his skills and gains more experience.

In short, buy what you like. If necesssary, get an "approximate" fit, then learn how to shoot. Some proper instruction early on will pay big dividends in time, money, and saved frustration. Then, once you become a pretty good shooter, you'll probably be in the market for another (better?) gun anyway. That's the time to get serious about gun "fit".
 
Pete, that is pretty much how it happened for me. I really didn't even understand gun fit til I had shot thousands of rounds. I think you gave some good advice. Cheers
 
I agree as well, but for one thought...

Had I had some help early to learn what a proper fit means in performance and comfort, I would have been a lot better shooter with fewer bad habits in technique for more years. I think one of the benefits of THR is to help others who may not have had that help to get it earlier than maybe they would have otherwise by simple trial and error.

I am close to fifty years old and will admit to thinking a lot more about my shooting technique etc since I see so much of it discussed here. My shooting affectiveness has improved as a result.
 
It's a bit of a false dichotomy.

Why buy something that you don't like, that may not be reliable, may not be suitable for your needs, and may be ugly as heck......
Click to expand...

I'd say, knock those off your consideration list first. Only compare the shotguns that are worth buying in the first place.

The fact is, though, that, say, a Citori and a 68X have very different basic geometry. Neither gun is junk, nor ugly. But if a Citori's balance and shape tend towards fitting you, then you can have it tweaked and it will be perfect. Ditto for the Beretta.

No amount of fitting, however, will change the fundamental design of the gun. If it doesn't work for you, it's not gonna, even if it's pretty and well-made.

...just to clarify what I meant in the other thread...

The only thing that improved my score, after trying for thousands of rounds with a BT-99, was when I walked into the clubhouse, asked, "Hey, you wanna buy this !@#$ thing?" and took the money and bought something very different.

I think that trying to get somewhere in the ballpark, rather than hoping a stock fitter can completely change a gun into something it's not, can save a lot of time, money and frustration.

By no means, however, does this mean one should buy an ugly or lousy gun just because it "seems to fit.":)
 
There is more advantage to good fit than just improved scores. An ill fitting shotgun can beat you to death.
 
It's a bit of a false dichotomy.

Quote:
Why buy something that you don't like, that may not be reliable, may not be suitable for your needs, and may be ugly as heck......
I'd say, knock those off your consideration list first. Only compare the shotguns that are worth buying in the first place.

The fact is, though, that, say, a Citori and a 68X have very different basic geometry. Neither gun is junk, nor ugly. But if a Citori's balance and shape tend towards fitting you, then you can have it tweaked and it will be perfect. Ditto for the Beretta.

No amount of fitting, however, will change the fundamental design of the gun. If it doesn't work for you, it's not gonna, even if it's pretty and well-made.

...just to clarify what I meant in the other thread...

The only thing that improved my score, after trying for thousands of rounds with a BT-99, was when I walked into the clubhouse, asked, "Hey, you wanna buy this !@#$ thing?" and took the money and bought something very different.

I think that trying to get somewhere in the ballpark, rather than hoping a stock fitter can completely change a gun into something it's not, can save a lot of time, money and frustration.

By no means, however, does this mean one should buy an ugly or lousy gun just because it "seems to fit."
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT points.........any gun, especially a shotgun, has to "fit" to you...you don't fit to the gun, cast off or on, Doh....etc.....

too many plastic-stocked folks in a wood world....
 
fit is important

For a newbe, an ill fitting shotgun can be uncomfortable and painful. My wife hated shooting my shotgun because "it hurt" and swore she'd never shoot another. Took her to get her own. I intentionally didn't show her the crap guns. She picked one out that "fit" her and now she actually shoots skeet with me. It had nothing to do with her shooting style. It had to do with length of pull and how it felt in her hands. Just like too big of a grip on a pistol can increase perceived recoil, to big of a shotgun can too.
 
A couple things....

For optimum fit, a shooter has to have a fairly consistent mount and some grasp of technique.

New shooters have neither, but an approximation can smooth out the road bumps. At the start there's two big ones.

The first bump is kick.

The second is actually hitting moving things.

Good fit really helps with both.

Yesterday I shot a round of wobble with 4 young adults met by chance at Range 7. All had pumpguns with synthetic stocks.

Two were 870 Expresses, one was a Mossie, and one an off brand with a humped receiver.

All of them hit some targets. After, one tall and lanky sort mentioned his face hurt from being wacked. I had him try a shot or two with the B Gun. Its 15" LOP and greater weight did a better job of fitting him and cutting the kick mule down to a pony.

After a quick demo of proper form, they thanked me and left. Tallnlanky was going to build up his LOP with a removeable pad and see if that aided comfort AND effect.
 
here's what i do when looking for a new shotgun. it's not scientific but it's a starting point for anyone. for lop i use the ole butt in the crook of elbow.then to see how the gun fits i pick a spot somewhere in the store(up kinda high)so not pointing at someone if they walk by. close my eyes then slowly mount the gun then open my eyes to see if i'm anywhere close,is the gun canted,etc. i know this isn't a do all but it gives me a starting point. i do this several times with the guns i'm interested in.anyway it helps me,maybe this can help someone else. take care all:)
 
Dave,

I think that your experience with "Tallnlanky" illustrates my point very well. Buy the gun you like and then MAKE THE GUN FIT YOU.

If "Tallnlanky" had considered buying only guns that "already fit him", his choices of guns to buy may have been even slimmer than he was. :D Some shooters may not be able to find ANY gun off the dealers shelf that will fit them.
 
That's certainly true.

When I think of "fitting a gun", I think of a lot of subtle stuff that only someone really skilled and knowledgeable can figure out about a stock. I'm assuming that the really blatantly obvious stuff like a 6' 6" guy trying to shoot a gun with a 14" LOP has already been dealt with. I suppose that is "fitting", but it's not exactly subtle.:)

I know only a few people who have really had a stock fitted to them. It took months, a good amount of money, and some time-consuming testing. It would be pointless for someone without a good deal of experience shooting shotguns to have this done, because it wouldn't come out perfectly enough to justify the cost.

In the end, one guy I can think of has a trap gun that has a custom-shaped Wenig stock that truly fits his body and his face in every way. And he is always on the "high flyer" board now. That's "fitting".
 
your point is well taken pete,but why would i want to spend good money on something i like but i know that it;s not going to fit? not trying to start anything just trying to figure out your logic. in my case i think browning o/u look great,but they don't fit me worth a durn.so i'm not going to get one then spend xxxxx amount more to get it to fit.i would rather get another brand that fit's alot better and go from there. take care and stay safe.
 
I found that fitting a gun to me is a process. I bought the gun that fit me at the time. I had to have a palm swell for my rather large hands. Then I made three adjustments over a 3-3 1/2 year period.

First I added a Beartooth pad to raise the comb about a 1/4". This also forces my fact to the left about 1/8". This helped with two things. Then I added a 3/4" piece of poplar to increased the length of pull to just over 15". Since then I've replaced this extension with one that moves the recoil pad 2/3" and cants it about 15°.

Each was a step in making the gun fit me.

I had a lot of recommendations from fellow shooters over the years. Now they just laugh at me for my funny looking gunstock.... but it works for me.
 
Unfortunately, they don't make any shotguns that fit me any more. My father has an old Winchester Model 12 that fits me, but he modified it to fit him, so that's not surprising (he has about the same build as me).

I need a 15" or so LOP (standard seems to be around 13 1/2 - 14) and about a 1" greater drop in the comb than is standard on shotguns these days. It's kind of annoying, particularly given the costs involved in making the gun fit (usually involves either buying additional accessories which typically start out at $100+, or sending it off to be fitted correctly, which also costs $$$).
 
Amen, Pete. I got fairtomiddlin' with shotguns that didn't fit. I'm shooting better than ever now with two shotguns that have been altered to fit my non standard physiognomy.

One difference between Tallnlanky and Yr Humble Scrivener is my form is well set and consistent. Far from perfect though. Still working on it.

Number Six has been shimmed to add a bit more drop and the LOP extended with spacers and a Decellerator to 15".

The B Gun has a Limbsaver pad installed that gives me 15" also, and I live with a hair less drop and a subsequently higher POI.

I need more drop than standard and a bit more LOP, though that's not as important. 1/4" of castoff helps and I'm still experimenting with pitch.

One of my "When I hit the Lotto for forty acres and a mule" plans include a custom fitting to fine tune the specs and then some custom stocks from Wenig's, Cole, etc.
 
Grasshopper,

WHY doesn't the Browning O/U fit you? If it's a matter of stock length, that's a simple problem to correct. It could be as little as changing the recoil pad. At worse, you might have to add a spacer or two or have the stock shortened slightly. The cost of that could run anywhere from $5 to perhaps $75 maximum. So then the question becomes, "Am I willing to spend up to an additional $75 to get the Browning gun I want to fit me or am I going to buy something I like less just because it's a closer fit right now?"

It's all up to you, but I can almost guarantee you that if you go ahead and buy a gun that is your second choice, you will NEVER be totally happy with it. You'll always be thinking "Man, I wish I had spent a few more dollars and got what I REALLY want instead of settling for second best."
 
I agree with this, I bought my gun because I wanted it and I wasnt going to buy any other. Then I had it modified to fit me (im left handed).
I shot sporting with my gun for the first time today and I got 45/50 which is much better than I used to do with the club guns, my gun fits me perfectly and the difference is overwhelming.

Great topic !!
 
pete

the browning's just don't feel right. lop was ok but drop a heel and comb and width of the comb just doesn't do it for me. now a beretta on the other hand, NICE!!!! i;m just getting back to shooting clays after a long time gone. i went to a local g/m and did what i wrote in my ealier post. and decided on a o/u that felt right and fit my small budget. i'm not going to get into what i picked out, i'm happy with what i picked out and it will serve me well for no more than i'll be able to shoot right now. take care.:)
 
Good luck, Jerry. Enjoy the gun you have. Maybe at some time in the future, if you get the urge to buy a new gun and find the necessary cash to scratch that itch, you might consider buying another gun.

Keep in mind that when we are talking about clay target shooting, the cost of the gun is the LEAST of your expenses over a few years of shooting.

A session of shooting 100 skeet, trap, or sporting clay targets can easily cost $20 to $40 just for the targets. Figure another $20 to $25 for shells and you've spent $45 to $65 for just one shooting session. Do this several times per month and you've spent $150 to $300 per month and this doesn't count the gasoline or any other costs associated with going shooting.

You can see that even a casual shooter will spend several thousand dollars over a 3 or 4 year period. A shooter who REALLY gets into it like I did will easily spend $5,000 per year. Some dedicated shooters may spend $10,000 per year.

When you put all this into perspective, the idea of spending say $2,000 or $3,000 on a gun which holds its value very well is not such an extreme idea after all.

So, if you are going to spend say $20,000 to $40,000 over the next 5 years to enjoy your shooting hobby, it only makes sense to do it with the gun you really want, even if that means spending a few hundred dollars to get the stock fitted just right for you.

OTOH, if all you're going to do is shoot a box or two of shells every 6 months, just buy whatever gun you can afford that doesn't kick the snot out of you and have a good time.
 
Sorta depends for me. Doubles, O/U or side by side, aren't that easy to fit without custom stock work. A repeater can usually be fit by you shimming it, cheap and effective and what I did with my Mossberg to dramatically improve it. My Winchester 1400 fit me right out of the box. Sweet. My Spartan side by side lacked a little drop, but the stock was way short in pull. So, I fitted a recoil pad to it which improved both dimensions, but it's still not quite perfect in drop at comb, though LOP is very good now. But, it's much better and I like shooting it. It ain't the kinda gun I'd spend a lot of money on with custom stock work.

I guess I ain't a good 'nuf shotgunner or something to have much of a feel for cast of the stock. I shoot left handed with right handed guns which I'm told is stupid, but I don't see the problem. LOL
 
The 870 and 11-87 do not have the shim system built into them from the factory. Therefore, the only way of doing it is some shadetree mechanic work which just might result in a split stock if you don't know what you're doing.

My advice is either be satisfied with the cheek pad or trade the guns for a shotgun that comes from the factory with the shim system. Beretta is the first one that comes to mind in that category, but there are others. I believe that the Browning Gold autos can be shimmed for drop adjustment, but not for cast.
 
Thanks, Pete409. I am pretty much a shade tree type of guy. I actually have a couple of extra 870 stocks, so if I crack one (not likely on the laminated stock), it is not a big deal. I also have an 11-87 Premier with near perfect blueing and some nice wood, but on the other hand I have $400.00 in it. I can get a new stock for around $100.00 give or take. So, I risk $100.00, or get a Beretta, Browning Gold, or Winchester SX3 for $450.00 to $750.00 difference? Well, of course, the $5.00 worth of shims that come with them.

Obviously, from the posts, others have done this, I am just looking for a little advice on technique. It occurs to me that one could coat the receiver in question with release agent, and then apply Accra Glass or maybe even Bondo to the stock, position it where you want it, let everything set up, trim and clean, and Presto...elevated cheek piece.

Anyone have better options?
 
Snarlington,

Dave has posted on the use of aluminum foil as shim stock and I think Mcgunner has used the same technique.

I didn't see anything specific in Dave's old Firing Line posts sticky, but if he doesn't chime in here I'd PM him.
 
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