Gun Rights for former felons

[KenW.]

There are no ex or former felons. Once a felon, always one; expungement notwithstanding.

It may be unfortunate, but there are reasons for criminal histories to follow a felon around.

 

[MaterDei]

tgp. This is called the High Road. Calling people insulting names is verboten.

I guess I'll disagree with most other on here. IMO, if a person has served his time, to include probation, then their rights should be restored. Period. Regardless of the crime that was committed. If they want a gun to create more mischief then they can get one whether they're allowed to get one or not.

Prison is not for rehab and it's not to get people off the street. Both of those are potential benefits but the purpose for prison is to PUNISH the person who committed the crime.

 

[mljdeckard]

We don't resent you for asking for opinions. But you should be prepared for the possibility that we will not all agree with you.

I have stated more than once, regarding this subject, that I wouldn't mind seeing the law changed to read; VIOLENT felons. If I were a cop, and I were in the home of a former felon on unrelated business, and I saw that he had a shotgun behind the door, I would probably look the other way. (One of many reasons I'm not a cop.)

The fact that a person is a felon should carry lifelong repercussions. The law should hold enough weight that if you violate it, the consequences are significant. Most felons who are incarcerated are NOT rehabilitated at all. I have no way of knowing whether or not you were rehabilitated, or if you just haven't been caught yet.

I do not know that the process for having a felony expunged is unavailable at this time. This is handled by the court in which the felony was recorded. Such processes are seldom swift or convenient. If this is that important to you, I would suggest you contact a qualified attorney with the matter.

Regarding your points,

1. Everyone might well make mistakes. Everyone does NOT commit felonies. 20% of our prison population are NOT U.S. citizens at all. Whether the system is fair or not, we ALL must take the consequences for our mistakes. I can absolutely guarantee you I have never committed a felony, including juvenile stunts I never got caught for.

2. So what?

3. Recidivism rates are horrendous. I don't know what your idea of 'many' is. The bulk of violent felons will return to prison for post-graduate work.

4. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to make it easier.

5. Congress did not take the funding away from all courts. Call a lawyer.

6. (Or 5 again, depending on how literally one looks at your post,) Wrong. I don't MAKE you do anything. I certainly didn't MAKE you commit the felony in the first place. YOU are responsible for YOUR actions. YOU must take care of YOUR record.

 

[kirklandkie]

i'd like to see more rights for (select) felons. the fact is that many people who committed felonies did nothing violent or anything that would constitute having their 2nd amendment right stripped from them.
i say give the men their god given rights

-kirk

 

[tgp]

Thank you Two Cold Soakers and Trebor. The other rights I also want back, such as voting.

P.S. I don't mind if people disagree, but putting everything you say in quotes and niggling over ever detail is just stupid. The guy is arguing with people that even agreed with him and does nothing for the thread in my opinion.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I agree with you. I think felons should have the right to vote and the right to bear arms just like me.
I know a lot of people with felony records and they're not all like the mean guy in the hoodie that people see in Guns and Ammo magazine and fantasize about on message boards.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

the process in va is actually fairly easy and doesn't require a lawyer and there are groups that help folks get their rights restored. pm me what state you are in and i'll see what i can dig up.

 

[jon_in_wv]

I've carried concealed every day since 2004. I've come to the opinion that EVERYONE should have a gun. A lot of the bad guys already do. If all the good guys had guns then who would care about a few stupid crooks.

I would like to see all gun laws catered toward commission of a CRIME with a gun. If a convicted felon commits a crime with a gun or in possession of a gun then give him an enhanced sentence. I'm tired of punishing people who are committing victimless crimes.

Maybe the best answer would be to simply pass a law making everyone carry swords. There wouldn't be any accident shootings or innocent bystanders shot and getting wacked with a sword is a good motivator to behave yourself. Whether it's a sword or a gun, an armed society is a polite society. I'm really tired of impolite people.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Some of you folks need to keep in mind also that the prohibition on felons possessing firearms is a FEDERAL law. You can do anything you want in the state your in but the Feds will still put your butt in prison under the Federal statutes.

 

[tgp]

I apologize into making this a debate on felonies, but you want the prison population to stop increasing?

1) When some gets out the quit punishing them. When it's over, it's over. The can barely get jobs, how do you expect them to make money legally if they can't get a job.

2) Stop treating them like second class citizens when they get out. Restore there right and if they don't learn their lesson then throw the book at them. Harsher prison terms and enforcement for the death penalty will decrease much as well.

3) Quit making so laws, many stupid and insane. You get into a little fight and now your life is over, that is insane. The guy who starts a fight and gets a black eye, busted lip and 5 stitches gets off scott free and because the government says I don't have a right to defend myself, my life is over??? Wonder why America has by far the biggest prison population in the world?

4) Stop participating in a violent and materialistic culture. Many obesessed with fancy car, clothes, etc are told you are a loser if you don't make big money. The disrespect for the working class in this country has the youth running toward crime. Have you ever listened to a rap song? It is pathetic and all the kids and many adults listen to it.

So I guess what almost everyone is telling me is "You had you one shot so now you're screwed" or get a lawyer.

Thanks for the input anyway. I was hoping there was a state that honored the second amendment. Thanks to anyone that contributed some useful info for others in my situation. I know for a fact that there are many. It is unfortunate that they will get firearms anyway and face prison time. I will seek legal advice, although the only advice that is free for ex-felons are from liberal groups that don't want you to have a firearm anyway

 

[moi_self26]

Well, the only people that I don't think should have the RTKBA (upon having served their sentence) are those who I would prefer to be executed or at least never released from prison

*Murderers
*Rapists
*Child molesters
&
*ANYONE who purposefully harms a child

 

[mljdeckard]

tgp,

You are seriously downplaying the seriousness of the crime. There is a reason 'one little fight' is a big deal. If I were somehow in the middle of that fight, I would probably be justified in using deadly force. When my kids started hitting each other, I stopped by a Sheriff deputy doing traffic watch on the way home from school, and asked him, in front of them, if it was ok for people to hit each other. I asked him if it was different if they were just little kids. They freaked out when he told them it was a bad crime, and they could go to jail for it. There is no such thing as a little bit of insignificant violence.

1. Again, the law must hold the weight of lifetime consequences for it to be meaningful.

2. When recidivism rates drop to less than half for violent felons, I'll reconsider.

3. The law prohibiting felons from possessing firearms is very simple. That shot to the eye justifies deadly force in prevention. It IS A BIG DEAL.

4. How does this apply to anyone in this conversation?

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Dude if we agree on the samething then how are you defending your point of view. I am not the OP incase you got it mixed up???

I'm sorry, I didn't read one of your posts right or thoroughly.

P.S. I don't mind if people disagree, but putting everything you say in quotes and niggling over ever detail is just stupid.

Well, this way people know who I'm responding to.
apologize into making this a debate on felonies, but you want the prison population to stop increasing?

1) When some gets out the quit punishing them. When it's over, it's over. The can barely get jobs, how do you expect them to make money legally if they can't get a job.

That's not really a punishment, so much as people not wanting to hire a felon.

2) Stop treating them like second class citizens when they get out. Restore there right and if they don't learn their lesson then throw the book at them. Harsher prison terms and enforcement for the death penalty will decrease much as well.

I think there are 2 reasons they are treated as such. The first is that most felons didn't go to jail because they acted in self-defense, most got their by mugging people, selling drugs, robbing banks, stuff like that. Second is that people are a bit afraid of them, or afraid they will commit another crime. I disagree about the death penalty though. While it might scare some people out of commiting their crime, I think in general it will result in a further lack of respect for life

3) Quit making so laws, many stupid and insane. You get into a little fight and now your life is over, that is insane. The guy who starts a fight and gets a black eye, busted lip and 5 stitches gets off scott free and because the government says I don't have a right to defend myself, my life is over???

Now if that happened as you describe, that's just plain stupid, and you shouldn't have gotten a felony conviction.

Wonder why America has by far the biggest prison population in the world?

Because we are the largest nation that has the mercy not to kill them? And also because of the culture you mentioned.

4) Stop participating in a violent and materialistic culture. Many obesessed with fancy car, clothes, etc are told you are a loser if you don't make big money. The disrespect for the working class in this country has the youth running toward crime. Have you ever listened to a rap song? It is pathetic and all the kids and many adults listen to it.

Very nice, I think I should save this quote.

 

[RP88]

if they serve their time, then I don't see the problem. The problem there is that a good chunk of felons - even the violent and despicable ones - are never gonna truly serve their time. Double armed robbery with a stolen firearm, sentenced to only three years, then get out after eight months and take on parole for only a year? Is that really 'serving their time'? Gimme a break.

Because of the looming errors in our justice system, I can't say I really disagree with barring felons from certain rights, including gun ownership/possession.

The problem here isn't much gun-related as it is related to the fact that our justice administration currently sucks, in my opinion.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Amen to that.

 

[CoRoMo]

I hope you get your rights back that should never have been taken away to begin with.

 

[little miss]

felons felons FELONS,what about misdemeanors ..its all designed to take your rights away,it starts out with felony's now you can lose your rights over a misdemeanor,WHAT'S next!!!

 

[Cannonball888]

In my opinion if you have truly paid your debt to society then you should have your rights when you get out. The problem is because of our lax penal system most criminals have not paid their debt and most are released far too soon and/or spared the death penalty. Like some before me have said, if you can't be trusted with a gun when you get out then you should never have been let out in the first place.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I apologize into making this a debate on felonies, but you want the prison population to stop increasing?

1) When some gets out the quit punishing them. When it's over, it's over. The can barely get jobs, how do you expect them to make money legally if they can't get a job.

2) Stop treating them like second class citizens when they get out. Restore there right and if they don't learn their lesson then throw the book at them. Harsher prison terms and enforcement for the death penalty will decrease much as well.

3) Quit making so laws, many stupid and insane. You get into a little fight and now your life is over, that is insane. The guy who starts a fight and gets a black eye, busted lip and 5 stitches gets off scott free and because the government says I don't have a right to defend myself, my life is over??? Wonder why America has by far the biggest prison population in the world?

4) Stop participating in a violent and materialistic culture. Many obesessed with fancy car, clothes, etc are told you are a loser if you don't make big money. The disrespect for the working class in this country has the youth running toward crime. Have you ever listened to a rap song? It is pathetic and all the kids and many adults listen to it.

So I guess what almost everyone is telling me is "You had you one shot so now you're screwed" or get a lawyer.

Thanks for the input anyway. I was hoping there was a state that honored the second amendment. Thanks to anyone that contributed some useful info for others in my situation. I know for a fact that there are many. It is unfortunate that they will get firearms anyway and face prison time. I will seek legal advice, although the only advice that is free for ex-felons are from liberal groups that don't want you to have a firearm anyway

So would you like some cheese with that whine? Come on tgp, you committed and were convicted of a felony. You knew, or should have known, the price tag on your actions. And now the best insight you get out of your experience is something on the order of the laws are all wrong and "it's all society's fault." Your rant certainly shows no contrition and is hardly the statement of someone who has learned the error of his way. Indeed, to my mind it well illustrates why felons should not have lawful access to firearms.

 

[gripper]

There but for the grace of God...
To the OP:I agree with you (up to a certain point):If someone is so dangerous outside that they cannot be trusted with RKBA;then perhaps they should not be out.
Additionally,I DO agree with you ;that far too many statutes simply increase the chances of hitting a "legal tripwire",and getting roped into a "gotcha" game.
So, PLEASE;contact an attorney and find out what relief from civil disability may or my not be available to you.You may have to stay in the state where the conviction occurred to get accurate info.

 

[Rodentman]

A former neighbor of mine had his wife move out with their kids. He got wind they were getting ready to move out of state and went to her apartment and shot her. Someone came to her aid and he shot him too, and he died. He was convicted of 2nd degree murder and sentenced to something like 16 years. This was in 1991 and I think he is on work release now. I look up his status every so often.

IMHO I don't think he should be allowed to legally purchase, own, or carry a firearm, whether he has "paid his debt to society" or not.

 

[zozo]

I'm curious what people think about how this applies to the mentally ill. Federal law prohibits felons from obtaining firearms (Title 18 Section 922(g)), but that same section also forbids the same for anyone who has every been committed to a mental institution. In the same way that not all felonies are violent crimes, not every mental health commitment is related to danger to society. Would people be just as comfortable restoring second amendment rights to the mentally ill?

 

[chuckusaret]

Everyone is well aware of our laws and if you violate them you should be punished. Nuff said.

 

[mljdeckard]

It prohibits sales to someone who has been ADJUDICATED to be mentally ill. Not someone who has participated in mental therapy or who takes anti-depressants. A JUDGE must levy an adjudication, which is again, due process of law.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i'm not sure of other states but in va the restoration of rights process is fairly easy if one stays outa trouble. very reasonable