Gun shop vs Big 5 Shotgun?

[SFTitan]

So last weekend me and my girlfriend went shotgun shopping. She really wanted a shotgun and we went to our local gun shop. I just recently discovered this shop but it's one of the most high recommended shops in the area and I'd also say it has the best selection in our area.

I've already bought two guns from them (Saiga AK and Rem 700 SPS). So you'd think that these guys would value our business and consider us decent customers already.

My gf quickly latched onto the Mossberg 3 in 1 shotgun set. It comes with a long barrel and short, as well as a pistol grip. All for $369. I saw basically the same thing on sale (without the pistol grip) at Big 5 for $279.

I asked the gun shop manager if they would lower the price and I also showed them the deal at Big 5. He did go down to $344 and he said that Mossberg's that get sold at Big 5 are not the same quality as what he sells. He compared it to the Calvin Klein shirts you get from Costco. They aren't as good as the CK you get at Macy's. Basically he was saying they buy a bulk load of shotguns that are made on a separate assembly line with some cheaper parts.

My question is this true? Or are they completely the same gun but one is cheaper because Big 5 can buy 1000s and get a great discount, whereas the gun shop doesn't.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Slamfire]

My question is this true? Or are they completely the same gun but one is cheaper because Big 5 can buy 1000s and get a great discount, whereas the gun shop doesn't.

That is difficult to know. I believe that it is more likely that Mossberg has one production line and that it is uneconomical to make "good" shotguns one day and "cheap" shotguns the next.

Shotguns are made from steel, wood and plastic. The factory workers are the same. To make a "cheap" shotgun you would have to start with inferior materials. Well it takes the same amount of work to order and stock the stuff, and cheap materials would be more likely to break, so I doubt on safety critical components, you will see any difference in the quality in materials.

Clothing is different. Just look a denim jeans, you see cheap ones with thin cloth and more expensive ones with thicker denim. Obviously the more cotton, the higher the material price. Garment workers are paid next to nothing making designer brands or store brands. The price difference is in the materials and royalities.

There is always a price difference between pretty walnut, plain beech stocks and low priced plastic stocks, but functionally they are the same.

You could polish one shotgun less, and we have seen that on less expensive versions of rifles and shotguns. High polishes require a lot of manpower in the polishing room. Even so, if the firearm is made of the same materials, built to the same tolerances, and by the same people, the surface finish is simply cosmetic. But we all like shiny things and many people will pay more for a shiny thing and think it better.

It would be uneconomical and dangerous to use the same production line to produce “good” shotguns to “tight” tolerances and then the next lot of “cheap” shotguns to “loose’ tolerances. If the manufacturing process is not kept within process controls there will be lots of scrap and wastage. So I believe all parts coming off the line are being built to the same tolerances.

The basic problem is that the Gun Shop cannot compete on price against a Big Box Retailer. That is a shame and you will miss them once they are gone, after you bought your shotgun from the Big Box store, and expected the Gun Shop to handle the warranty issues.

 

[rromeo]

I don't know if it's true, but I have heard that same thing as well. The Mossberg 500s that Big 5 and Walmart sell are really Maverick 88s with the Mossberg name.
I do know that one of my friends bought the Big 5 combo and to change the foreend, he had to replace the entire feed tube as well because it was a one piece.

 

[gkdir]

Agree with "slamfire" 100%. Its about "buying power". The little guy just isn't going to get the price break that the "big box" doe's. For the $60.00 difference see if the gun shop might throw in a cheap case--maybe a couple bxs. of shells. When the deal is close, I always go with the local guy. Pats off in the long run. Just my $0.02

 

[SFTitan]

Well, we ended up buying the shotgun from the gunshop. I didn't think the price difference was big enough to warrant taking a chance. But it does make you wonder about the gunshop's mark up when I asked him for a price on the Nikon Monarch 4x16 42mm scope. I've been shopping this scope for my new Rem700. I've found it at Opticsplanet for $420 and on eBay with reputable sellers for $380ish. Guess how much the gunshop wanted for it? .... $899. Yea... $899. When I told him I can get it for less then half that he just looked at me as if I was crazy.

I'm all for supporting local gunshops, but when they ask for $899 for a scope that I can get $400 online, it makes you question any credibility they have and definitely makes me wonder if they're telling the truth about the shotgun.

 

[oneounceload]

Unless you know HIS cost, and what markup he needs to make a profit, versus a non brick and mortar internet "store", you really aren't comparing things equally

 

[natman]

Big 5 can buy in volume, thereby getting discounts, so they can sell cheaper. There's nothing different that I can detect in the Mossberg 500 I bought at Big 5 and any of the other three I own and I've disassembled every one of them down to the last pin.

 

[Robert]

Continually telling someone they have bad prices, even if it is true, is not a good my to do things in my mind. If their prices are that bad then go somewhere else or buy it online. A small, or even large, single location shop simply does not have the ability to buy in the quantity that makes prices lower. That being said $899 is about double the prices I found online...

 

[SFTitan]

Unless you know HIS cost, and what markup he needs to make a profit, versus a non brick and mortar internet "store", you really aren't comparing things equally

I think you're talking about the scope at this point. Because I'm not questioning the price on the shotgun but rather the way he's trying to sell it by telling me the shotgun at Big5 is using inferior parts. It's basically a Mossberg 500, so it's not a wooden shotgun where you can skimp on wood.

As far as what markup he needs to make a profit. I'm not sure how this can justify $899 vs $400.

Just another example... I asked them to recommend a good scope mount for the 700. They recommended to me the Mark 4 at a price of $149. I emailed Opticsplanet and they recommended a the KK-MT-REM700-40000 at the price of $42.

Is this giving good advise or just price gauging his customers? And I've found these type of tactic to be the norm at most gun shops I've gone to.

 

[12guagecody]

wrong wrong, i bought the 500 combo for 279 at big 5 several months back. it is not a maverick. i know this because my best friend has a maverick and i helped him clean it once. quality is way higher on the 500 and the safety is very different. the big 5 shotguns are the same quality as the gun shop shotguns.

 

[rbernie]

Because I'm not questioning the price on the shotgun but rather the way he's trying to sell it by telling me the shotgun at Big5 is using inferior parts.

The long guns sold at the big box stores are not 'special' in any way, and anyone trying to blow smoke up my hooch by telling me otherwise is risking a sale. My favorite gun shops will honestly admit that they don't get the volume discounts from the manufacturer/distributor that the big box stores get, and use other things that they *do* offer to try and make the sale.

Continually telling someone they have bad prices, even if it is true, is not a good my to do things in my mind.

And this is always the other side of things. Act rudely or critical, and the shop will likely lose all interest in dealing with you.

I'm not sure how this can justify $899 vs $400.

He may be buying it at retail and marking it up with his standard accessory margin. That doesn't mean that he's a crook, but it also doesn't mean that anyone has to buy it.

 

[Pokyman]

You keep hearing the firearms sold at Wal Mart, Big 5 or any "discount" store are of different quality than firearms sold at independant dealers is just wrong. I know because I am an independant dealer. These places offer the same firearms that I order from my distributor. The big difference is the price. With few exceptions, these places are selling guns retail at prices cheaper than I can purchase wholesale. If I were to purchase several thousand guns annually, I could compete with the big chain stores.
The only way I can out compete the big stores is to sell higher end firearms not usually offered by the Wal Marts of the world, knowledge of the firearms to aid customers to choose what they want and provide an atmosphere that makes a customer want to come back again.
When you see that an independant dealers price is higher than the big stores it does not necessarily mean he is gouging you, it may mean that his bottom line has is higher than Big 5.

 

[JohnBT]

"The long guns sold at the big box stores are not 'special' in any way"

I think you've forgotten the shotguns with Sam Walton's picture on the receiver.

Tell me that wasn't special.

 

[hometheaterman]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you got lied to. That being said, I don't mind paying a little more to support a local gun shop if they are friendly and honest. I don't feel that I should pay extra to hear more lies. I also am not willing to support a gun shop that feels that they can double the price on stuff. That scope you listed is a great example. There is no way that they need to double the price other than to try to rip people off. I wouldn't find a new gun shop if it was me.

 

[Legionnaire]

I often drop in on a local dealer ... literally a small "Mom & Pop" place. On most new guns, their prices are higher than the big box stores, including the big sporting goods stores. But despite being small, they typically have a wider selection in stock, and can and will order anything I want. But the best thing is they always have a selection of used and/or consignment guns that the box stores don't carry. I've picked up a number of guns that way ... and it's why I keep going back.

And I wouldn't worry if I saw an $800 scopes on their shelves. If I want one and can get it somewhere else for half of that, I'd do it. But the market eventually clears. Either someone with money will come in who wants "that scope right now," or eventually they will have to drop the price to move the inventory. Even if they have to hold it for months (years?) it will eventually sell at a price that's fair to both parties.

All that said, I wouldn't do business with an establishment that I knew lied to me in an attempt to make a sale.

 

[teirst]

I would suggest you just not give him a hard time about it. If his firearm prices are close to the "big box" stores pick it up from him.

A gun store will NEVER be able to match internet prices on accessories, so unless they are thrown in for free with your firearm know that it will always be cheaper to buy them online.

If you would like a way to "make up" the cost difference between the big box and the gun store ask him if he would throw in a free FFL transfer at a later date. I would call that a $30+ value, however it is free to them. That is of course, if you intend to buy a firearm online at a later time.

 

[Boomie]

I've heard that line from dealers at gun shows and a few gun shops. It's bunk. They just can't compete with the bulk buying power of bix box stores. I still generally go to smaller stores as they tend to be much more knowledgable, stock more specialized gear and offer useful on-site services. Good ones have prices that are higher but still competative.

I worry that with the rise in popularity of some big internet bulk dealers (Buds, SOG, CDNN, etc.) that more pressure will be put on smaller stores. This was brought home to me this week when I got my newest Cheaper Than Dirt Master catalog - the first third or so is all firearm sales.

 

[SFTitan]

Thanks all I appreciate all the feedback. To those who said I gave the guys a hard time. I've been to the shop a total of four times. The first time I bought the Saiga. The second time I bought some ammo. The third time I picked up the Saiga and on impulse I bought the Rem 700. The fourth time my GF wanted to shotgun and I mentioned the Big5 price, they dropped the price by $30 and we bought the shotgun. On the way out I asked the guy about the scope. He told me the price, and I said Opticplanet sells it for $400 because i literally thought he perhaps misread the price. After realizing he didn't make a mistake we said thanks and we left. Oh yea, I forgot we also bought a consignment Derringer the same day we bought the Saiga.

I'd say that we were pretty good customers and I'd hardly say I was hard on the guys. But don't you think we deserve some honesty in regard to the shotgun? I most probably would have bought it anyways from them because of the pistol grip and the fact that my gf was able to put down half and then pay the rest in 10 days (which Big5 does not offer).

Thanks again all for your feedback.

 

[CoRoMo]

The whole 'inferior quality guns at Walmart/Big5/YouNameIt-BigBoxStore from a separate assembly line' is a long running myth. Some have even claimed that there are three standards at a gun factory; guns that don't pass QC, guns that pass with flying colors, and guns that will only be shipped to the mass-retailers because they slid in between the two former standards. It's a myth. What you might see though, is special model/configuration of a particular gun, that Walmart, Dick's, etc. have made an arrangement with the manufacturer for the exclusive sell of. You won't be able to find that particularly configured firearm anywhere else.

Continually telling someone they have bad prices, even if it is true, is not a good my to do things in my mind. If their prices are that bad then go somewhere else or buy it online.

The thing is, if the price COULD be the same, I'd much rather keep my money local. I WANT the local shops to take my money, so I show them what they need to do in order to get it. It's not that most of the local shops WON'T do what it takes, it's that they CAN'T do it and still profit. I don't take it personally, and I hope that they don't either. I'm polite and courteous, but they are not always.

 

[VegasAR15]

I am all for supporting my local gunstores for the most part. There are a lot here in Vegas that I will not go to, because they are a joke; there is another one that I use all the time. Great guys there, honest, good prices. If there is a gun store that is bold faced lying to me, such as saying that the same exact gun that they carry is superior in quality to another store's, then they just lost my business for good.

 

[CraigC]

All I can say is that I'm really glad I don't have to make a living selling guns at my own shop. I wouldn't have the patience to deal with all the morons who make their decisions based solely on the bottom line. The world would be a better place if all the big retailers stopped selling guns.

 

[zhyla]

There ought to be a website with a list of stupid things people have been told by gun shop owners. Small chains cannot survive without a range attached, at least in my area. Too bad.

And the correct answer: buy online.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Sadly, I have gone to wally world to buy guns, and while I don't like the manager escort out the door ( It is kinda weird getting walked out by the THE manager (the assistant was busy or something)

I don't think $150 for the same thing is worth it. Now my LGS may not get a volume discount, but they do carry a very wide inventory and can get you almost anything new.

 

[SFTitan]

I do see a market for both Big 5 and gun stores. Big 5 are for common rifles and shotguns. Nothing fancy but your basics. If you want variety and selection you go to a gun store. The problem is that gun stores are overcharging for many items. An FFL transfer fee in my area costs $75. Yup. That's CA prices for you. So unless I'm buying a big ticket item, I might as well buy at the gun stores.

But if I'm looking for a higher priced item or things like ammo, scopes, bipods, etc it's just silly to pay the prices these gun shops are charging. Add to that the unscrupulous methods that a lot of the gun shops employ I'm glad I have the option to go to Big 5 or buy completely online.

 

[Gord]

The long guns sold at the big box stores are not 'special' in any way, and anyone trying to blow smoke up my hooch by telling me otherwise is risking a sale.

Anyone trying to play that card with me has lost a sale, period. I do not deal with gunshop BS well; it gives me the impression that either the salesman - usually also the owner, in small gun shops - is a dullard (in which case I assume they'd probably bungle any of their proffered "services" anyway) or that they think I'm a dullard (in which case I guess I'm too stoopid to manipulate my wallet open) or both. My gunshop sojourns are usually as quick and terse as I can possibly make them. Private party sales have been much easier on my blood pressure - no mouth-breathers thus far - and the prices are better anyway. Preferable...

As for the OP, unless you have some particular reason to spend sixty bucks extra for a pistol grip you should be throwing directly in the trash, go to Big 5 and give your business to someone who isn't a blatant liar next time. The package combos sold at Big 5 are Mossberg 500s. The ones you see at Walmart for $179-189 are Maverick 88s, but that's a pretty elementary inference given the price point.