Gun Snobs lighten up!

[triplebike]

I read a post recently when a young man was shooting a " HI-POINT C9 " at the range. He was so ridiculed by other shooters that he got rid of the gun. Just because he could only afford the C9 he should of been put down like that is asinine. Any gun owner that treats a fellow gun owner like that is only biting off their nose to spite their face, is a jerk & is doing much more harm to the sport of shooting & gun ownership in general.

We should be encouraging the younger generation to gun ownership. We should all welcome responsible new gun owners (young or old, male or female) with open arms. The more we have in this country the better it is for all of us. To put down or make fun of someone because they're learning to shoot with a $150 handgun just makes no sense to me.

When I was getting back into gun ownership less than a year ago I posted that I wanted to know where locally I could see & maybe buy a C9. Some of the replies I received were downright nasty.

Our country needs more responsible gun owners not less. The more support we give to them the better off we'll all be. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason for gun snobbery, it just doesn't do anyone any good.

Rant off

 

[pacerdude]

I hope that he will give shooting another try some day, perhaps at a better (friendlier) range.

 

[Snowdog]

I can see where you're coming from. I personally have a fascination with military surplus handguns due to the value they represent. Some folks can stomach them because they have no pizazz to them typical of commercial firearms (usually in terms of fit and finish).

Though I'm not a fan of HiPoint (for no particular reason, perhaps for aesthetics reasons) but I'm not going to criticize someone for having one.

 

[KIX]

Great post, and so true.

I happen to have a gun that a ton of people sneer at whenever I bring it out - an Astra A75.

I have a thick skin though, I like it, it always works and that's all that really matters.

FWIW,

I know a shop that never intended to sell pistols at all. They sell pretty much rifles and such. A guy wanted one, this guys distributor carried 'em and he got it. Turns out a friend of the guy liked the same high point and he ordered another. Long story short, over 2 and a half dozen people have bought one from that initial sale and he continues to carry 'em.

It's all in what you like.

Jonathan

 

[rjrivero]

Gun snobs are awesome.......

Reminds me of a time a good friend of mine and I went for an afternoon of sporting clays. The range we went to was very nice. Automatic traps with a key counter to keep track of the number of birds they charge you. Really nice operation.

When we pulled up to the parking lot, there was a nice truck with an enclosed trailer on the hitch. The tail gate was down on the trailer and you could see that the interior was nicely finished.

My friend and I started our round of clays, and we came up to the middle of the course. (They started shooters going around the course both ways). We came up on the folks who had obviously come in that truck/trailer. They were in a decked out golf cart with four gun cases mounted to the cart where the golf bags usually go. Open on the end so you could slide your guns barrel down into it's own padded and lined case. Inside these cases were a set of Krieghoff Shotguns. The cart was trimmed with burl wood on the dash and the seats were not Vinyl....

There were three generations with that group, Grandfather, Father and Son. The grandfather and father were nice, friendly guys. The grandfather was probably 80 at the time, and it was heartening to see him out with his family shooting a round of sporting clays. The father, probably in his mid 50'sat the time was friendly and obviously well off. His son, well, he wasn't the nicest twenty something I've ever met. It would be a good life lesson if he had to work for a living, I remember thinking to myself.

My friend and I were just 22 at the time, and though we were both in school, we enjoyed shooting enough to buy ourselves a some nice field grade Benelli's. He was working at a gun shop and got us a good deal on occasion. I remember eating Ramen Noodles for a whole semester in order to have enough money to buy that shotgun, but I digress.

While we were waiting for the station to clear from the group in front of us, we were chatting back and forth. I jokingly said to the elder gentlemen, "Wow, you guys don't shop at the same K-Mart we do!" The elder gentlemen got a chuckle from that, and we made the introductions. We decided to share that station and shoot every other shooter on this station before we went on about our round. We were talking about their beautiful shotguns, and how jealous I was of a guy who could afford a shotgun that outpriced my car, much less three of them in the back of a golfcart that was NICER than my car.

Junior was commenting on how our field grade Benelli's were "ok, I guess." Well, Junior proceeds to miss every bird on the station, while my friend and I shoot the station clean. I'd be pretty upset too if I spent that much money to miss birds.

My point is, the Benelli that I could barely afford is no Krieghoff. But I shoot it and enjoy it. To each their own, and remember we all started somewhere.

 

[Bobarino]

amen. price of the gun, nor the brand name determines how well it shoots. i use a $329 Verona semi-auto to shoot clays with and i consistently shoot in the high 80's to low 90's. and i'm not going to be heart broken if i drop it and scratch it.

I'm all for spending as much as your heart desires on any firearm that suits your fancy. i just think it sucks when people look down their noses at people who either can't, or just don't want to, spend a lot on a gun.

your equipment on the range or on the hunt doesn't determine your shooting ability, nor your character.

Bobby

 

[OkieOFT]

I love my Hi Point 995 rifle, and any man or woman that dare heckle me at the range can either put up or shut up.

As far as HP pistols go, my LGS can barely keep them on the shelf, and he's only had a complaint from one person. Same goes for the rifles. The day I bought mine if I had arrived three minutes later it would've been gone, they're very hot ticket items. LGS owner says he sells five Hi Points to every one 1911, Glock or S&W that walks out the door. They must be doing something right!

And here's the thing...I could very easily afford a Beretta CX9 rifle...Thing is, I don't want to! The HP does everything I want for hundreds less.

 

[Gungnir]

What happened was unfortunate, however, lets look at it from another angle.

How many people here would "give up" something they wholeheartedly embraced because someone disparaged them or their equipment (which is the least thing you should worry about)? Lets be serious here for a moment, I've had more than my fair share of people giving me their opinion on my guns and gun ownership, and it hasn't made me go sell my collection and go and take up needlepoint.

While we do want to foster firearms ownership, at the same time, we don't want to coerce those that really are only marginally interested (or even marginally disinterested). It's expensive, takes great courage and conviction, and responsibility to be a gun owner, especially if you carry on a daily basis. If someone's conviction is so easily swayed by a bunch of yahoo's then it may be that it's not the right pursuit for them.

Firearms ownership is not easy, there are laws we need to follow (more than a few of us can cite USC numbers, precedents, and state statutes off the top of our heads), concerns about changes in law that might effect what we currently own, or try to remove them entirely, there are pressures of friends and family who do not share our interest, and some actively oppose it. Then there are the various clans and factions of actual gun owners (1911's, GLOCK's, AR's, AK's, Revolvers, Autos, 9mm's, 40S&W's, 45ACP's, 357 Magnums, Timney, Jewell, and on, and on, and on). So looking rationally at the situation, if this person chose to end his firearm ownership because of these yahoo's, then it would likely have only been a matter of time before they chose to end it for some other reason.

I'm all for people owning guns, but the first thing that I tend to tell people who ask me about it are all the negatives, simply because its better for them to know up front, and make an informed decision than go off half cocked, find it's not for them and at best choose to sell (mostly at a loss) whatever they've obtained a few months or years down the line, and at worst be irresponsible or negligent and cause themselves or someone else injury.

In the same situation I would have given those people my opinion that they should go and attempt something physically impossible, or alternatively get themselves out of a physically impossible contortion. Not go sell my guns. Simply put there may be some point in the future where whatever gun I have with me (it might be a $150 Hi-Point, a $3000 Les Baer custom or anywhere in between) could be the only thing that keeps me breathing, and I'm all about keeping breathing. The yahoo's and haters won't be there when this happens, I'm sure if this happens then the people trying to stop me breathing couldn't care less whether it's a Hi-Point or a Les Baer or whether it's 9mm or 45ACP, just that there's a gun in my hand at it's pointed at them.

So at the end of the day, sure a bunch of people were <...stupid...>, its not surprising, people often are, but they are not responsible for this person quitting owning guns. The only person who is responsible for that is the person that chose to quit.

 

[killchain]

Here's what I say.

You get what you pay for.

 

[youngda9]

Gungnir posted "While we do want to foster firearms ownership, at the same time, we don't want to coerce those that really are only marginally interested (or even marginally disinterested)."

I disagree with this. Marginally interested people can become passionate people with the right exposure. Being discouraged by a bunch of gun snobs can put out the smouldering of a new hobby that could become a wildfire of gun passion or....the guy could have been the next JMB, you never know.

 

[cambeul41]

Here's what I say.

You get what you pay for.

You pay for what you get is a bit closer to the truth

 

[cambeul41]

or....the guy could have been the next JMB, you never know.

or .... the next BHO.

Okay, my turn to shut up.

 

[hemiram]

I love it when a gun snob, and it's almost always a guy with an expensive 1911, has problems with his pride and joy after he looks down his nose at my Witness .45, or my friend's CZ97B which never seem to have any of the same problems they do.

I have a friend who was a major gun snob, but his continued issues with expensive 1911's has turned him to the "junk side", and he has a CZ97B .45, and a 9MM Witness, and has a Jericho fullsized on it's way.

I have an Astra A-75, and an A-100 too, both shoot anything without a problem, and are more than accurate enough for combat use. The price of both of them, with 3 mags each, was less than $600, shipped and transferred! So far, even my most expensive guns have been around $425 or so, including shipping and transfer.

 

[Fleetman]

Back when my son and I used to shoot skeet, we shot at a range frequented by "money people". Once, an older gent asked if we minded if he joined us and, of course, we welcomed him. I had seen him at the range many times but we never spoke other than the occasional greeting. He was using a high-dollar Perazzi and he looked our guns over, mine an American Arms O/U 28 ga and my son's, a Remington 870 Express 20 ga. He told me I should consider getting my son a real shotgun instead of that sh***y gun he was using. I ignored the comment and we began our round....it didn't take long for us to realize this guy wasn't much of a shooter and by Station 4 was trampling on my son's hulls whenever he got the chance, I guess from frustration. At the end, my son (14 years old) smoked him with a score of 23 and I had a 22. Mr. Perazzi scored a 14. I couldn't help say "Hmm, shoots pretty good for a sh***y gun, huh?" He shot another round with us but in complete silence and my son was careful when he shucked hulls to keep them away from this gent and he only lost a couple of hulls, mainly from doubles. Second round scores were 21, 21 and a 11....we never so much as snickered although the temptation was there!

 

[danprkr]

triplebike

Agreed 110%

 

[allin]

Hi
I have a variety of guns, various makes and types. One of them is a HiPoint C9. It is a great gun, fun to shoot and reliable. I really don't get why some people even care enough to post their negative opinions concerning what others shoot? It's pretty simple, buy and shoot what you like and let others do the same. "Get a life." What's better?
A revolver or an automatic?
A 45ACP or a 9mm?
A 4" barrel or a 6"?
A 357 or a 44mag?
A Taurus or a Smith?
A single action or a double action?
A pitbull or a shotgun?
Yadda yadda yadda!
What is the single best gun to own?

 

[22-rimfire]

RJ, nice story.

My point is, the Benelli that I could barely afford is no Krieghoff. But I shoot it and enjoy it. To each their own, and remember we all started somewhere.

I wonder what they'd think when I pull out my field grade Remington M870? or... a Mossberg 500 or Remie 870 Police?

There were three generations with that group, Grandfather, Father and Son. The grandfather and father were nice, friendly guys. The grandfather was probably 80 at the time, and it was heartening to see him out with his family shooting a round of sporting clays. The father, probably in his mid 50'sat the time was friendly and obviously well off. His son, well, he wasn't the nicest twenty something I've ever met. It would be a good life lesson if he had to work for a living, I remember thinking to myself.

The son stands out. The Grandfather was probably quite comfortable, but instilled his values into his son. The son (50's) was successful because of his knowledge, ability, and a key... PERSONALITY. The grandson grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth and has no conception of what it takes to work.

I have worked for people like this. The older generations are great, the younger ones are a PIA and I eventually quit because I just couldn't deal with the young ones who thought they knew it all but didn't come close. Their mistakes didn't matter... my mistakes did in the rare event there was a misjudgement.

I am a firm believer that folks should buy what they can afford. If you are like most, as time goes on, you will likely be able to afford better. I think of the Colt and Smith snobs, and the decked out 10/22 snobs.... Give things some time and you can have it all if you go after it! But don't ignore the sport or try to ruin things for somebody who does not have as nice a firearm as you do.

 

[jcwit]

This concept holds true not only for guns but for scopes, reloading equipment, even powder. Not saying Leupold in not an excellent scope, but not everyone can afford a $1,000 scope, and maybe a Weaver will work, or even a BSA for that matter. The same holds true for Dillion equipment, its an excellent brand with an excellent warrenty but then again Lee equipment will load very accurate rounds, maybe not quite as fast but one doesn't have $1000 invested either. VihtaVuori powders are one of the best, no argument there, but then any of the other brands will also make very accurate loads if one takes the time to work up the loads.

In regards to, "You get what you pay for" this is true to a certain extant, but there are also times one also gets a super value for the money spent. Going to a garage sale and buying a Leupold scope for $25 bucks, only proves the point.

If the logic of this thread held true everyone would be driving a Land Rover or a Rolles Royce, or a Bimmer, instead of the cheap Honda, Chevy or Ford, let alone a crappy Chrysler products.

 

[22-rimfire]

The $1000+ scope is a great example. I may own some pretty nice firearms, but I just can't bring myself to spend a grand or more on a scope for a rifle that I likely won't shoot more than a couple times a year. I wonder what those that care about such things would think about my old 4x Herters scope that cost me $20? I know some pretty weathy folks that drive Honda's and Fords. They choose the lesser priced automobiles because of their value system and feel they don't need something a lot more expensive just to drive from Point A to Point B. Guns are the similar. But, eventually just about every gun owner who really likes guns sees something they consider special and expensive and lust for it. A new Corvette sounds like a lot of fun.

 

[smallbore]

Thanks for your post triplebike. It's a good reminder.

 

[jcwit]

A new Corvette sounds like a lot of fun.

Oh Ya, they are. Owned one for about 10 years, can't remember just exactly how long. Only car that never cost any thing to own, I kept track of all expenses encluding plates and insurance and sold it for a profit in the end.

 

[Readyrod]

Yup, Hi-Point. Ugly as sin and cheap to boot. I don't want one, I want two or three.
PS: Don't like snobs.

 

[armoredman]

You don't always get what you pay for, sometimes you get more. That's the way I feel about my CZ pistols. Some of people look down on them - that's fine, they work for me.
If all I could afford was a Hi-Point, and I had no pistol, I'd buy one. Some don't realize HiPoint has a lifetime guarentee, and if the company is willing to stand behind thier product like that, then maybe they have something there.
Sneers at cheap guns is how Saturday Night Special laws get passed so easily, with the silent sysmpathy of the "good" gun crowd, who really don't want to fight for the "junk" guns.
Then a waitressing single mother of three gets raped and murdered, maybe because the Raven .25 auto that might have saved her life for $50 was replaced on the gun shop shelf with a SiG P230 she couldn't afford.
Just looking from another angle.

 

[EddieNFL]

This concept holds true not only for guns but for scopes, reloading equipment, even powder. Not saying Leupold in not an excellent scope, but not everyone can afford a $1,000 scope, and maybe a Weaver will work, or even a BSA for that matter. The same holds true for Dillion equipment, its an excellent brand with an excellent warrenty but then again Lee equipment will load very accurate rounds, maybe not quite as fast but one doesn't have $1000 invested either. VihtaVuori powders are one of the best, no argument there, but then any of the other brands will also make very accurate loads if one takes the time to work up the loads.

There is truth in your words, however, on occasion it is less expensive to pay a bit more up front and save money by mot having to replace later. I can buy a screwdriver at Walmart that will work fine...for a while. I can step up to a better brand and use it for life. The Walmart version is the cheapest, but the better brand is less expensive.

If the logic of this thread held true everyone would be driving a Land Rover or a Rolles Royce, or a Bimmer, instead of the cheap Honda, Chevy or Ford, let alone a crappy Chrysler products.

If price alone were the deciding factor, but I would go with quality and choose the Honda.

 

[rocinante]

The attitude is the same in any hobby that has equipment. Cars, motorcycles, hockey, etc, etc. I usually don't bother with anything that supposedly best of the best because my skill levels never approach where I push the envelope where it really makes a difference plus my wallet has many many demands dipping into it. First handgun I bought was a used S&W 915. Why? It fit the criteria I wanted for a defensive and range toy and it fit my hand better than the other pistols I picked up. First rifle was a SKS. Sturdy inexpensive reasonably accurate rifle. I like it and bottom line is what counts. I have about 20 guns now and only a couple of them are enviable possessions. The rest are tools or toys that tickle MY fancy. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Sure I lust for bigger better toys but I don't keep mine in a box because some brat touts his as the be all end all. Just outperform them if you can is always highly satisfying. I have a 97 mustang gt convertible that is an absolute sleeper. I have upgraded gears, transmission, heads, cams, exhaust, nos, etc, etc. I had a porsche pull on me at a stop light and guess what? I smoked his euro ego toy. Never mind it has taken me 6 years on my budget and at the end of the day it is still just an old stang albeit one that is clean and mean. I like it and the sweat equity keeps me interested in it. I plan on keeping modding it until it is totally retarded according to my tastes and whims. I don't think I would feel the same just plopping down payments on an out of the box 12 second car.

Screw the guys who think their wallets walk the walk. Always false. A man that has mastered himself and his tools is THE MAN. Always true.