Gun store know it all.....what do you do?

[Kendahl]

In my opinion, the OP handled an awkward situation tactfully. He avoided an argument with the clerk and didn't try to sell the women on his own point of view.

In his shoes, I might have done two more things. The first would be to suggest to the women that, if they hadn't already, they take an introductory handgun class from a disinterested provider, preferably one aimed at women. The second would be to send a letter to the store manager which listed all the clerk's misinformation and suggested that, in the interest of not alienating potential repeat customers, he train or screen his sales staff better.

 

[willypete]

Ethically and otherwise. Are you going to try and protect everyone from mistruths just because you know something about firearms. Who gives you the right to be interfering??

I think that most people with a strong set of ethics would consider correcting "mistruths" to be a proper course of action.

In fact, I think a lot of people here on THR and in the real world would consider it a beneficent act if they could prevent harm from occurring to someone by the simple intervention of correcting an erroneous statement or giving a little guidance.

 

[PBR Streetgang]

I Like this quote
“Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.”

The only time I would speak out is if the person gave out unsafe information where someone could get seriously injured or killed.

 

[newfalguy101]

And yes, the BHP was designed after the 1911 - and not even by John Browning - but what is the real impact?

The OP typed that the clerk said it the other way around, that the 1911 came AFTER the HP, which is nonsence, but in reality more than likely meant nothing to those shoppers anyway. Oh and JMB DID in fact design the HP, and had a working model upon his death in 1926, D Suave (sp?? ) did the double stack mag.

JMB's patent drawing:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=2D...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false


As for the OP's question, I would, and have politely intervened in the conversation, hoping the guy simply misspoke, and asked for clarification, then either the guy corrects himself, explains his reasoning,or shows himself to be the idiot he is. At that point, I say something like, "hmmmm interesting, first time I have heard that one" and walk away.

 

[Dr T]

I am with MYOB. In general, the ladies are generally used to hearing male puffery and are trained to ignore it.

As for the 22: I have been known to carry a North American Arms mini-revolver with Speer Gold Dot 22 magnums in it. But then, I can usually hit a 5 inch circle at 5 yards with it.

 

[valnar]

At a minimum, I would have given a noticeable sigh or "ahem" so that the clerk heard me. It would be his choice to address me or man up and fix his error. If he truly did not know which came first, the 1911 or BHP, then in his response to me about my guttural inflection would prompt a friendly discussion with the customer present.

 

[12gaugeTim]

The one about 1911 vs HP is negligible but the 22 as a SD round is debated heavily, and even the most zealous believers in it still don't classify it as the best there is. I personally don't believe it would be more impolite towards the clerk as it would be helpful to the two women to tell them that this clerk cannot be trusted. It doesn't make you a jerk, it doesn't make you a "commando", it's just filling the vacuum of factual information and/or advising greenhorns that no, that rusty secondhand HP22 will not in fact work every time.
He was providing the women with incorrect information, and probably knew it too; OP did nothing wrong.

 

[moewadle]

Willy Pete I think you are rationalizing

the ethics of this...you have missed my point...if a person starts interfering he/she is setting himself up as the knowing person here...when he/she was not asked, was in someone else's place of business, etc, etc...just because you think someone is wrong does not give you the ethical right to butt in. That is my point. And someone questioned our questioning of this....the reason we are doing it is because the OP asked for our opinion so he is getting our opinion.

 

[willypete]

just because you think someone is wrong does not give you the ethical right to butt in

Man, you've just eliminated about 99% of the threads on THR...

And missed the part where I mentioned preventing harm.

Anyway, yeah, if someone is dead nuts wrong about something that may be a safety issue, I do have an ethical right, and sometimes an obligation to butt in.

 

[pockets]

Gun store know it all.....what do you do?

I continue with my own shopping.

If you set out to correct every wrong thing you heard a salesman tell someone, you'd have no time for anything else.


.

 

[Legionnaire]

I keep thinking about this thread. Guess I mostly follow the counsel from Proverbs 26:17 ...

"Whoever meddles in a quarrel not his own
is like one who takes a passing dog by the ears."

That sounds a lot like "MYOB."

 

[LeonCarr]

Just keep in mind that most of the gun store know it alls spend most of their time at the gun shop working and not at the range shooting.

Everytime I go to the Fort Worth Cabelas I leave with my tongue bleeding from all the complete untruths being told by the staff behind the counter.


Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Gtimothy]

It's his job to sell you things. He only needs to know enough to convince you that you want what he is selling. Same with guns.

I understand what you are saying about the somewhat esoteric nature of guns and I agree it might be hard for newbies to find out information. Hopefully sites like this one help out some, but there will always be some people who turn to the experts who want to sell them something.

As a NOOB to some types of guns, I ask questions on this site often. However, as someone who has been shooting for over 40 years, I have a bit of knowledge to fall back on. The responses I get to some questions range from useful information to "this has been covered MANY times before - try using the search function". BTW, the search function is painfully hard to use especially when you're looking for useful information!

Now imagine a person who has never picked up or fired a gun. They go to the "Big Box Gun store" to find a gun for home/personal defense. Who is the expert? The guy behind the counter!!!! I'm not saying he isn't, just saying that more often than not, he is only barely qualified to even pick up a gun! KEY WORD...SALESMAN!!! I've heard people say they don't want to get involved because it isn't their business, I call BS!!!! It is always our business to promote our hobby in a positive and safe manner! The Anti's love to hear about someone who accidentally shoots them self or someone else! These new shooters need to be taught CORRECTLY right from the beginning! And that includes the right gun for the purpose they are buying it. As a responsible shooter I would have tactfully interjected questions during their conversation/sales pitch and try and and get the customer to ask even more questions. It's very easy to do and unless you're in a big hurry to leave, takes very little time. I personally don't care if the guy behind the counter is only there for the sale. If he doesn't at least care enough to know his job then he could be putting someone in danger. It would make me sick to see a picture of one of those two women on the news because of some gun related incident! (Unless they took out a bad guy of course! )

 

[zeke707]

Did you hear the entire conversation? What gun shop would you feel comfortable in when making a purchase? You are most likely to be correct in your assessment of the information provided. Would your suggest a Heizer .45? How about your favorite .50? I know, somewhere in between. Then the information provided by an expert may very well be "all over the board" i.e., subjective. Actually I want to purchase a gun for my wife. One she can carry in her purse. Based on the initial post, what carry would you recommend? Where to carry on her person? Thanks

 

[ForumSurfer]

I am with MYOB. In general, the ladies are generally used to hearing male puffery and are trained to ignore it.

Not to mention I hear too much puffery and fecal banter to even begin an attempt at correcting it.

 

[moewadle]

Gtimothy

I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.

 

[Gtimothy]

I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.

I love the comments that have been put out on this thread that basically say "It's none of my business so I just bite my tongue and walk away." I guess the whole reason people gain knowledge is to hoard it and dole it out only to those who know the "secret handshake!"

I never said you have to charge right in and make an A$$ Hat out of yourself, I'm just saying there are tactful ways to do it (I have done it) and nobody got upset.

I would expect to get slammed if I walked into my LGS and interrupted a conversation. I adhere to the 60 second rule...I don't make any comments until I've been listening for 60 seconds. That way I feel I have a firm grasp of what the content of the conversation is. I only make comments when I feel they are warranted and I don't cause scenes. I guess if you can't do that it would be considered rude!

 

[303tom]

No. More than likely you would have gotten yourself thrown out.

Then I would have gotten thrown out, but not at our Midway store.............

 

[moewadle]

One of the big problems

with people acting, what I consider rudely, and butting in is that the person who does this tells himself he is justified because he knows this/that rule or fact, or he knows more about guns, or he knows this and that, and he believes he is morally obligated and ethically correct in doing this. In short, a lot of the time there is big-time rationalization going on for acting inappropriately.

 

[Grogan14]

Anyone who seeks "professional opinions" from someone who is looking to sell them something has already made a mistake. Doesn't matter whether it is guns, cars, or laser eye surgery.

My sentiments, exactly.

The chances of someone today actually being thankful to you are very low. Most people aren't worth your time, sadly.

 

[dom1104]

Guns are not a religeon to me, I really dont care what other people think they know.

Never even feel the need to butt in or correct someone.

In the end it doesnt matter.

Other people, dont feel the same way I have noticed, generally the young, ethusiastic ones who play video games a lot.

 

[fdf]

Interesting comments and insight.

Would be interesting to hear from knowlegable counter salesman and the many inaccurate and stupid comments and questions they get from customers who do not have clue, especailly those in full camo. clothes.

I have a feeling it's a two way street.

fdf

 

[moewadle]

I admit I am on a rant

because this is my third post on this...but further thinking in the same direction I have taken....I have seen so many posts on THR about the "Nanny State" sort of government that some antis want. We 2nd amendment people get in an uproar over self-righteous people that want to protect everyone from themselves by taking away guns and gun rights. These nanny-state advocates are self-righteous, think they have the right answers so people will not hurt themselves and others with the evil, dangerous guns. I want to say...."Who are they to set themselves up as protectors." But we all know, I think, that most of those people really believe, or have rationalized at least, that they are morally and ethically correct; that it is their job to do this because, we the people, cannot do if for ourselves as individuals.

So, my conclusion is, going in a gun shop or wherever and setting yourself up as some type of moral guardian and/or protector of those two ignorant, unknowing, adult women is the same thing. Leave those women alone to be the adults they are and to consult with whom they wish. I was always taught, and it is a rule of courteous society, that you do not give advice unless you are asked. So, that enters this also. Again, leave the adult women alone. They did not ask for your advice. As for the salesman.....it is just sales hyperbole and, in my opinion, you can not objectively prove him wrong and he has a right to believe what he wants and pass that opinion along. We see sales hyperbole all the time in our economy (Ford is better than Honda, GE is better than Motorola...). If you think you are justified in interfering it is my opinion that this is equal to those of the Nanny government who think they know better than me how many guns I can have and what kind, etc. End of rant, for now. :banghead:

 

[Flopsweat]

...
... "I adhere to the 60 second rule...I don't make any comments until I've been listening for 60 seconds. That way I feel I have a firm grasp of what the content of the conversation is." ...

I like this technique. I really should use it more than I do.

 

[larryh1108]

moewaddle, you make a compelling argument. Many good points. However, the OP stated he waited for the women to walk away and he suggested they seek another opinion. His reaction was, IMO, correct. However, those who wish to jump in and make a scene should read your post again. Lots of food for thought.