Gun store know it all.....what do you do?

[Elkins45]

Man, you've just eliminated about 99% of the threads on THR...

People come here actively looking for the opinions of random strangers. That's not so much the case when shopping.

I fail to see how not knowing when the High Power was designed would harm the ladies in any way. And the thing about .22 for self defense will still be debated long after we are all dust.

I'm in the MYOB camp just because the world seems to function better with fewer self-appionted white knights. Just think how much better things would be in Sanford, FL if that guy hadn't taken it upon himself to be the zealous, crusading guardian of his neighborhood.

Besides, as others have commented, how many women do you know that aren't used to men being know-it-all blowhards?

 

[Gtimothy]

The original post was " Gun store know it all.....what do you do?" I answered according to the way the OP was stated...Apparently I answered wrong. Sorry!

However, I still stand by my assertion that it is not ok to just "bite my tongue and walk away". I guess for most its just another thread for the forum..."You'll never guess what I overheard the Mall Ninja saying when I was at the range last weekend!" or better yet "Can you believe some woman thought she could stop a rapist with a .22? Yuk Yuk Yuk....My 2 cents!

 

[larryh1108]

As moewaddle touched on, I'd like to know from those who felt compelled to jump in and say something is where do we draw the line? We bristle when he says the .22 is perfect for SD. We "know better" but there are a lot of people who carry a .22 or .25 or .32.

What if the guy told the ladies that the .380 has been proven to be the "best for self defense" due to the number of successful defensive shootings and you believe that anything that is less than a .40 is useless and you jump in. As moe mentioned, you are now putting your personal views ahead of another person's views. Where do you draw the line when it comes to jumping into the conversation? What makes you more right than another?

 

[B!ngo]

I think this is an excellent model to live by. And as a 'car guy' as well as a 'gun guy', I tried this example on myself:
I am in the Chevy dealer, discussing buying a car (probably a 'Volt', but that's another issue). I spot two young well-off drivers discussing that they just got their license and getting talked in to buying a Corvette ZR1. In the wrong hands, and on a rainy road, not a car any rookie should be driving.
Should I, would I say something? Answer is heck no. Even though I think the probability of wadding up a ZR1 by the uninitiated is liklier than these women having problem with their .22, I would be pained, but would just look the other way.
I think some of us look at guns as some higher power and those with knowledge have a higher calling to inform all others. But ultimately, caveat emptor. It's just not my business.

I Like this quote
“Never seem more learned than the people you are with. Wear your learning like a pocket watch and keep it hidden. Do not pull it out to count the hours, but give the time when you are asked.”

The only time I would speak out is if the person gave out unsafe information where someone could get seriously injured or killed.

 

[M.Weier]

Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

 

[willypete]

I would say if you interjected as you suggested that would be just plain rude and still none of your business. Your thoughts about the antis, notwithstanding. Still none of your affair, none of your business. Not your conversation.

I think it's awfully ironic how vocal some people are about other people shutting their gobs.

Especially when they go on to rationalize it.

I'm not going to let some moron spread bad gouge, especially when it stands a good chance of being harmful to an ignorant person. That's my stand, if you don't like it, tough. If ever I give out unsafe information, I want someone to fix me.

 

[B!ngo]

You pose a good question. And, depending on my answer, there likely will be a follow-up!
But honestly, I'd like to think my answer would be 'no' I would not. Just not my business to patrol and inform on all of the questionable comments and behaviors of salespeople in environments with which I have no controlling interest (i.e. I am just a patron).
I also accept that it's a tough call, but at some point people should be smart enough to know what to do with their money.
B

Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

 

[B!ngo]

You pose a good question. And, depending on my answer, there likely will be a follow-up!
But honestly, I'd like to think my answer would be 'no' I would not. Just not my business to patrol and inform of the comments and behaviors of salespeople in environments with which I have not controlling interest (i.e. I am just a patron).
I also accept that it's a tough call, but at some point people should be smart enough to know what to do with their money.
B

Just to clarify, since it seems to have gotten really twisted since my op, i did not cause a scene, nor did i butt in on a conversation, nor did i force my opinion on anyone.

Bingo, if the salesman told the young driver that the corvette was perfectly safe to drive on ice and snow, would you still not say something ......politly.....away from confrontation with the salesman?
I

 

[holdencm9]

I have never overheard blatant lies or untruths, but a few times a clerk has been puzzled by a question or something, and I chimed in. One time, for instance, a customer asked the difference between the Kahr CM9 and PM9, and other than the adjustable front sight, they couldn't figure it out, or why there was such a huge price difference. Finally I just casually mentioned something about the polygonal rifling and some parts being metal instead of plastic on the PM9. I didn't want to "show up" the clerk but felt it would be to everyone's benefit. And I tried not to do it in a "know-it-all" way (as I clearly don't!)

I think in your exact situation I would have left it alone too, but it is hard to say.

 

[jrdolall]

If I was absolutely certain that said clerk was completely clueless, rather than just stating an opinion that differs from my own, I would inform the manager of the department or of the store. If you had the clerks name it would be better as they could identify the culprit. Most stores do not want their employees misleading customers but also don't want to pay for knowledgeable sales clerks.

I can only hope that a person looking into buying a first handgun will do a little more research than just listening to a clerk at Cabela's but you never know. I have been buying guns for many years and have been told some outright bald faced lies. I have disagreed with many assertions made by clerks at different stores but I usually just move on when they tell me that Cobra makes the finest handgun available below $500 or that I am wasting my money on anything other than a Glock.

 

[aeriedad]

I have seen so many posts on THR about the "Nanny State" sort of government that some antis want. We 2nd amendment people get in an uproar over self-righteous people that want to protect everyone from themselves by taking away guns and gun rights. These nanny-state advocates are self-righteous, think they have the right answers so people will not hurt themselves and others with the evil, dangerous guns. I want to say...."Who are they to set themselves up as protectors." ...

So, my conclusion is, going in a gun shop or wherever and setting yourself up as some type of moral guardian and/or protector of those two ignorant, unknowing, adult women is the same thing. Leave those women alone to be the adults they are and to consult with whom they wish. ...

Really? This is how I see it:

The Nanny State says private businesses such as bars and restaurants may not permit its patrons to smoke. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says motorcyclists must wear helmets. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says motorists may not talk on a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators.

The Nanny State says your firearms must be registered and listed on your license. Prosecution and fines are levied against violators. In some cases jail time and permanent loss of the right to keep and bear arms may also apply.

The Nanny State says...a lot of stupid things that do little to make anyone safer and serve only to make the state more powerful.

As I understand it, the OP took care to avoid a scene and had nothing to gain by offering friendly advice:

I didnt want to start an argument with the guy so i waited patiently for them to walk away from the gun counter and quietly told them they should talk to other gun store clerks and try to get better information.

Yeah, that's real Nanny State material there. Well, unless it's just one private citizen giving a bit of polite, friendly advice to a couple of ladies who may or may not need it. It is possible he's not trying to control anyone, isn't it? The ladies were free to ignore his advice without threat of fines or imprisonment, weren't they?

As for the salesman.....it is just sales hyperbole and, in my opinion, you can not objectively prove him wrong and he has a right to believe what he wants and pass that opinion along.

So, John M. Browning did design the Hi Power before the 1911? I suppose you have objective proof of this?

If you think you are justified in interfering it is my opinion that this is equal to those of the Nanny government who think they know better than me how many guns I can have and what kind, etc. End of rant, for now. :banghead:

In my opinion, this is not a matter of being "justified in interfering." It's just one private citizen sharing his point of view without controversy. How very "High Road" of you to distort his tactful behavior into something it clearly was not.

 

[homatok]

Personelly I think the OP acted in the right way! I hope I would have had the courage to have done the same in similar circumstances. If the only one who could/would get hurt was an idiot that was buying too much car, or not enough gun I might agree the OP had no business speaking up BUT such was not the case here. Helping someone come to an informed decision is comendable. Have a great day.

 

[RevDerb]

I would have found a manager and asked him/her to inject him/herself into the conversation. Bad advice could cost lives.

 

[Twmaster]

Chances are the manager of the department does not know any more than the sales clerk.

Complaining to that manager would have gotten you nothing. So long as his department makes or exceeds it's numbers they do-not-care.

I think the OP did the right thing. He did not cause a scene nor did he sound like a know-it-all.

Me? I'd have just finished getting my reloading supplies and got outta there. (I shop at the Allen, TX Cabela's)

 

[whalerman]

jrdollol says a very smart thing that gets right to the point. Many businesses want knowledgable salespeople, but won't pay to obtain and keep them. They also won't do the WORK involved to train their people appropriately. There was a saying my Dad used to tell me, something about getting more with sugar than something else.. YOu know what I mean. In other words, keep it positive. I would do as some have suggested. I would talk to management and tell them how much I appreciate their knowledgeable staff. I might just add that this guy might need a little work. With all due respect to twmaster, ask the manager if they plan to stay in town very long. Suggest they won't be if they continue to mislead future customers. But I certainly know what you mean, Twmaster. Many just look to today and don't care about tomorrow.

 

[murphys_law]

Personally if I'm in a shop and a clerk is passing out misinformation whether it be about their products or about self defense or guns in general, I will usually get in touch with the manager or owner and explain the situation. More than once I've been the result of a clerk being reprimanded and re-trained, or fired depending on the severity of the lie. I don't do this to get people in trouble or fired, I do it to prevent more misinformation about my beloved hobby from being spread around to new shooters.

Amen, I just recently did this at a lgs and got a prompt and sincere response from the stores owner letting me know he would have a talk with his employee.

 

[Chris-bob]

There was a saying my Dad used to tell me, something about getting more with sugar than something else.. YOu know what I mean.

You catch more flys with honey than vinegar.

I think the OP handled it grandly. He never said the salesman was wrong, but merely informed the shoppers to get a second opinion on the matter with another salesman. I've done that many times. Often, the customer then asks my opinion. I give it and still point them to another salesman. I never complain when another customer injects their opinions and experiences into my ears, and am grateful they want me to be informed(even if I don't like what they say). I do find that I am much kinder in person than online...

 

[evan price]

Unless it is patently dangerous or illegal, MYOGDB. Not enough people nowadays seem to be able to do that.

 

[coalman]

I read two underlying philosophical camps:
1) MYOB always = Right or wrong does not matter... let 'em get shafted if that's the outcome... I'd just be sure to leave quietly so I don't have to actually witness it... better them than me anyway... and it's really their own fault because they should have known better, even if just starting out, and if they don't or couldn't have, well, it doesn't matter anyway because... (repeat mantra)
2) Good Samaritan = (At least) Try and help 'em get good information starting out, even if to just respectfully and humbly suggest they get more information.

It really comes down to those two philosophies IMO: MYOB always or Good Samaritan, and we see this in many other instances, big and smalll, on this forum and in the real world. It's a difference in fundamental belief system in a way. The rest of this thread attempts to validate and justify one or the other with endless what-ifs and yeah-buts.

 

[justice06rr]

This would've been a perfect chance for you to pick up these women and get their phone numbers!

then say, I have a big gun.. wanna see?

Lol j/k. Seriously tho, U did just fine man. many LGS clerks are uninformed and sometimes simply clueless about firearms. Actually this would've been a good opportunity for you to have talked to these women and parted some more accurate information about guns. Maybe even take them shooting with you sometime! There you go, how's that for a pick up line? lol.

 

[P-32]

There are times one should jump in. A friend of mine, not a friend of a friend but a real friend of mine was at a well known gun store in southern CA. A lady came in with a Winchester mdl 42. She had borrowed the shotgun from a relative and it was slightly damaged while she had it. The lady was doing the right thing, wanting to repair the minor damage. The clerk behind the counter talked the lady into a re blue job of the entire shot gun. My friend spoke up and told the lady if she had the 42 re blued it would de value the 42 more than the minor damage did. He suggested she was better off by just leaving it alone. The clerk was none too happy but a 42 was saved.

 

[45_auto]

Why are all you guys so upset because the clerk is a wrong on his history of the 1911 vs the BHP?

At least he was right about the most important part - the .22 is a great self defense round.

 

[aeriedad]

Why are all you guys so upset because the clerk is a wrong on his history of the 1911 vs the BHP?

At least he was right about the most important part - the .22 is a great self defense round.

Ha! I see what you did there...45_auto.

Yeah, the guy was wrong on a historical matter, and he has an unconventional opinion on SD cartridges. Either of those could be overlooked alone, but taken together as examples of other questionable things he was allegedly saying behind the gun counter, he has indicated he may be an unreliable source of advice to new shooters.

Anyway, this whole discussion is little more than the sharing of opinion...hardly material for an epic rant. IMO.

 

[Double Vision]

This sort of thing comes up in motorcycle shops too.
It's a thin line between trying to be helpful, or an annoyance.

 

[jrdolall]

In my former life (prior to making my money and bailing) I was a business owner. I had to interview, hire, train and often fire employees from minimum wage positions to six figure folks. I occasionally had to fill a position with a less than qualified applicant for a variety of reasons and then try to get them as well trained as possible before they began interacting with customers or operating equipment.
Getting quality people is VERY difficult at any price so in this instance I would assume the clerk was relatively new to the job and learning the ropes. As my mother used to say "after 6 months he knows where the bathroom and Coke machine are". That does not make it right for him to give out bad information but it does make it understandable. I don't have a Cabela's near me so I have never bought a gun from them though I have perused several of their stores. I love the one in Kansas City with the mule deer room that sits right next to the Kansas Speedway. They have a great gun selection and I would hope that the manager of that department would like to know if his clerks are giving out bad info. He probably already knows it and hopefully is working to train the guy.

I gave many sales presentation as well as lsitened to many sales presentations in my career. As a young pup about 25 or 26 YO I heard a phone conversation between one of our salesmen and his customer where he gave the customer completely erroneous information about a product. I just laughed after he hung up and told him the real answer. I told him that, IMO, it was usually better to tell a customer that you would get back with them and make sure you gave them correct information rather than giving an answer that was completely wrong.

I once had two appointments back-to-back with sales teams from competing companies. It was like watching Fox News and MSNBC on the same topic. They BOTH had facts and figures to prove that their product was the better seller and most liked by consumers. Neither of the groups was actually being untruthful but I thought it was funny how they could put a spin on their products.