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Guns like Glocks,...129 years in the future.

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Mitlov said:
I don't think it's disputed that Glock is far, far more concerned about the first metric of longevity than the second. And when we're talking about something largely designed as a professional-oriented duty pistol as opposed to a luxury good or an heirloom, I see nothing wrong with that. (And I'm saying this as someone who owns an all-steel revolver and no polymer autoloaders).
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I would bet that NO manufacturer is worried about their guns 100yrs down the road but that's really tangent to the discussion here. While it doesn't matter to some how long their guns last, it does to others. I would wager that the folks who primarily shoot and are interested in guns like Glocks could not care less about the longevity of their guns and think those who do are silly romantics. The folks who dote on older guns and care about things like fit & finish are typically going to think otherwise. Else we'd all be shooting modern guns and there would be no enthusiasts of older guns. Be it 30yr old Rugers and S&W's, 100yr old Colt's or 300yr old flintlocks. Personally, while I no longer own Glocks, I put very little emotional investment into my polymer pistols, as I see them as nothing but soul-less, disposable tools. However, revolvers, leverguns and muzzleloaders are a completely different story. A big part of their appeal is that they are NOT disposable.

The Colt SAA was the primary military sidearm of its day. Just as the Glock and others like it is today.


Sebastian the Ibis said:
If "a modicum of care" were that common we'd all have our ancestors civil war muskets in our safes. "Care" is entirely uncommon over 100+ years. How often do you find 4 generations of gun nuts in a family that all take the time to dote over old guns? Sooner or later someone is going to let the guns rust in attic, or bubba them.
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How is that relevant? A Glock is not going to survive abuse and neglect any better. In fact, it will degrade WITH care and maintenance.
 
Sebastian the Ibis said:
If "a modicum of care" were that common we'd all have our ancestors civil war muskets in our safes. "Care" is entirely uncommon over 100+ years. How often do you find 4 generations of gun nuts in a family that all take the time to dote over old guns? Sooner or later someone is going to let the guns rust in attic, or bubba them.
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I would argue that our ancestors were just as, or more, concerned with caring for their weapons as we are. They relied on that musket for food and predatory animals and humans were a much more immediate problem for them than us. What they lacked was noncorrosive powder, climate controlled storage, and synthetic lubes and coatings. Which thankfully we have. Muddle this- how many WW1 firearms are still widely available today, all of which are at least a century old at this point.....and still counting. ;)
 
I love my polymer guns for the tools that they are. The substantial weight reduction is a blessing to my aging back. Likewise the simplicity and durability of my Glocks and XDs. Will they be around for my great grandchildren? Perhaps. I'd put more money on a cared for wood and steel firearm.

As has been stated, polymer does degrade and become brittle. UV light seems an accelerator for that failure. I have two anecdotes:

#1) I watched a friend of mine (the Glock Armorer at my LGS) take in an old Gen 2 gun for an inspection. He briefly looked it over, cleared it and took the slide off the frame. He then held the frame near his ear and squeezed the grip. I asked him what he was doing and he told me that in his latest re-cert, they were instructed to test for "brittleness" in the oldest Glocks. If he could hear any slight "crackling" noises, the frame was to be tagged for replacement. This friend hasn't found one yet, but apparently it is beginning to happen.

#2) A customer came into the same gun store with a G29 in Glock's FDE color. His story was that he had lost the pistol at his hunting camp about two years before. He found it lying in the woods, exposed to the elements. He claimed to have then fired the (still full) magazine without issue. The side of the slide (dirt side) had two areas of corrosion beginning, but looked fixable. The frame was severely faded on the (sun side) to almost the color of bone. Pretty dramatic difference. The Armorer referred the customer to go to Smyrna across town as he didn't trust the gun. We later found out that Glock HQ said the frame had been compromised by the exposure. They would not pay for replacement under warranty due to customer "misuse".

I don't worry about my polymer guns at all. I also want to keep my more traditional guns well cared for to pass down to my descendants.

FWIW. YMMV.
 
I have a Colt revolver that's 95 years old and it still shoots fine. Out dated cartridge but you can still buy ammo for it. I suspect it will be going strong 50 years from now.
 
One cannot compare a cheap firearm, that was used solely as a tool (not that I have a problem with that!) to a fine specimen, that was cared for and stored appropriately. There are some fine guns, dating back to the beginning of the 18th century for example, that are still looking rather fine after all this years. And I mean "fine" as near pristine looking. Care is everything.
Just for example, this is a picture of a Mitrailleuse (a sort of volley gun) breechface. That gun is more than 100 years old and still looks almost brand new.

IMG_1282.jpg
 
The frame was severely faded on the (sun side) to almost the color of bone. Pretty dramatic difference.
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The black frames are the most UV resistant and should hold up well to very long durations of UV exposure. They are black because of the addition of a black substance (carbon) which provides UV resistance. If you're going to leave a Glock in the sun for years, do it with one that has a black frame.
...he told me that in his latest re-cert, they were instructed to test for "brittleness" in the oldest Glocks. If he could hear any slight "crackling" noises, the frame was to be tagged for replacement.
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Interesting. This wasn't mentioned in either the standard armorer's class I took in 2015 or the Advanced Armorer's class I took in June of 2016.
 
JohnKSa said:
The black frames are the most UV resistant and should hold up well to very long durations of UV exposure. They are black because of the addition of a black substance (carbon) which provides UV resistance. If you're going to leave a Glock in the sun for years, do it with one that has a black frame.Interesting. This wasn't mentioned in either the standard armorer's class I took in 2015 or the Advanced Armorer's class I took in June of 2016.
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In the bit of digging that I have done, I agree about the black polymer. All my polymer guns are exclusively black. I personally saw the faded FDE frame. The slide held up remarkably well for being in the dirt, however.

As to my friend and the brittleness check? I can only attest to what he said. I haven't gone through a Glock armorer's course for probably 20 years. The subject didn't come up this time until I saw him doing the squeeze thing by his ear. I thought it strange.
 
CraigC said:
relevant? A Glock is not going to survive abuse and neglect any better. In fact, it will degrade WITH care and maintenance.
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I disagree, glock plastic ain't going to rust. Even if UV exposure is a thing, I have never seen a gun left in the sun for too long, or stored on a rooftop. I have seen many corrode away in a moist basement, attic, wherever.
 
Sebastian the Ibis said:
I disagree, glock plastic ain't going to rust. Even if UV exposure is a thing, I have never seen a gun left in the sun for too long, or stored on a rooftop. I have seen many corrode away in a moist basement, attic, wherever.
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Polymer will degrade regardless of how/where it's stored and while the Glock's steel is corrosion resistant, it won't last forever.
 
As to my friend and the brittleness check? I can only attest to what he said. I haven't gone through a Glock armorer's course for probably 20 years. The subject didn't come up this time until I saw him doing the squeeze thing by his ear. I thought it strange.
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I'm in the same boat. I can only attest to what was said in the classes I attended. I did do what I could to review the information I have on hand to verify that I'm not forgetting anything.

I went back through the armorer's manual and did not find the check. I looked at the inspection checklist and while there is a line item checking for cracks in the receiver, there is nothing about squeezing the frame to hear if it crackles. Being the kind of person I am, I take notes in the classes (I've had the basic class several times and the advanced class once) and then after the class put them into a document so I can search them easily. I can't find any reference to a check like that in any of the notes I have.

For what it's worth, I'm not going to say that frames can't become embrittled after only 20-30 years. I've heard/read about people cleaning polymer pistol frames in the dishwasher and I'm sure that many people use ultrasonic cleaners for the same purpose. Both would involve the frame being left in hot water for long periods of time and that is a primary factor that speeds the degradation of polyamides. And I do wonder about the long term effect of frequent use of some of the more aggressive solvents.

All that said, from what I can tell if one takes ordinary care (which, IMO includes avoiding putting it in hot water for long periods) the frame should provide much more than a lifetime of service.
 
I am far more concerned that my descendants firearm ownership rights will be degraded to the point of a total ban before any of my present (or future) firearms fail due to structural collapse, be they blue/polymer, blue/walnut or of stainless construction.

Will a Glock, M&P auto, Sig 320 etc. hold the nostalgia of an 1873 Peacemaker, a war-issued Victory model or your grandpa's Python? I'll opine that it depends on the history (if any) being made with the modern guns I guess...
 
Guns are funny things. They have such an aura of history around them that we sort of put them in this category of probable heirlooms.

The fact of the matter is that most firearms are not passed down. Most might make it from father to son, but sooner or later they are forgotten and left to rust, sold, or simply thrown out because an ancestor thinks they are "dangerous".

Heirlooms are great. I love seeing a gun with over a century of use and care so that it still functions.

My point is that there are very few durable goods that are designed to weather the ages. My truck is a very nice piece of steel and plastic. I drive my vehicles into the dirt. I doubt my 2012 makes it to 2025, and I feel that 300,000 miles is a good life. Heck, my TV is a nice $900 4k. 3 years and I'll be ready to replace it with the next latest and greatest.

Wood and steel will last, but I think it's important to realize that the test of time's goal post moves. 200 years ago, we needed a firearm that could be passed down 4 times to feed our families. These day (and with the coming future) we will be able to 3D print any parts we need for our guns that will not only be cheaper but most likely better for the environment (biodegradable frames with steel chassis that promote both reuse and less use of fossil fuels to produce near instantaneously).

Time, she is a changing.

Will my poly pistols be around for my great grandkids? Probably, but they will most likely have gotten an upgrade by then. I can fully see a modular handgun design where a cost effective polymer "cheap" frame is replaced by a high end carbon fiber laminate one/Next gen synthetic that increases the life span of of the frame with nothing more than dropping in the steel chassis.

It's important to hold onto history in order to learn from it, but I think it is equally important to be open to change. Not all change is bad.

But I'd still take that old Colt in a heartbeat:)
 
Fiv3r said:
Guns are funny things. They have such an aura of history around them that we sort of put them in this category of probable heirlooms.

The fact of the matter is that most firearms are not passed down. Most might make it from father to son, but sooner or later they are forgotten and left to rust, sold, or simply thrown out because an ancestor thinks they are "dangerous".

Heirlooms are great. I love seeing a gun with over a century of use and care so that it still functions.

My point is that there are very few durable goods that are designed to weather the ages. My truck is a very nice piece of steel and plastic. I drive my vehicles into the dirt. I doubt my 2012 makes it to 2025, and I feel that 300,000 miles is a good life. Heck, my TV is a nice $900 4k. 3 years and I'll be ready to replace it with the next latest and greatest.

Wood and steel will last, but I think it's important to realize that the test of time's goal post moves. 200 years ago, we needed a firearm that could be passed down 4 times to feed our families. These day (and with the coming future) we will be able to 3D print any parts we need for our guns that will not only be cheaper but most likely better for the environment (biodegradable frames with steel chassis that promote both reuse and less use of fossil fuels to produce near instantaneously).

Time, she is a changing.

Will my poly pistols be around for my great grandkids? Probably, but they will most likely have gotten an upgrade by then. I can fully see a modular handgun design where a cost effective polymer "cheap" frame is replaced by a high end carbon fiber laminate one/Next gen synthetic that increases the life span of of the frame with nothing more than dropping in the steel chassis.

It's important to hold onto history in order to learn from it, but I think it is equally important to be open to change. Not all change is bad.

But I'd still take that old Colt in a heartbeat:)
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You make an interesting point. I'm kinda surprised no one has yet started casting steel/aluminum/zamak grip modules for some of the more popular interchangeable chassis yet......might make this thread come full circle, no?
 
Thanks for all the comments guys. This thread was less about "a Glock lasting 129 years" and more about the fact that they are boring by comparison [same with XD, M&P, Walther, etc]. This is, of course, my on opinion. YMMV
 
Orion8472 said:
Thanks for all the comments guys. This thread was less about "a Glock lasting 129 years" and more about the fact that they are boring by comparison [same with XD, M&P, Walther, etc]. This is, of course, my on opinion. YMMV
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Oh, well then, that's easy- Glocks are like opinions: boring and everybody's got one.:neener:
 
I could see some of the more "iconic" polymer guns still in safes in 130 years. Things like 1st Gen Glocks, HK VP70, USP's, SIG M17 and maybe some others that could be considered collectible. But I doubt many people will even care about the majority of the others, like all the Glock clones. The plastic degradation will ensure that they won't be safe to regularly shoot (if at all) and I'm sure technology will continue to change so there isn't even a benefit to keep them around.

On the flip side, I'd bet that the popular metal framed guns will still be popular: 1911's, CZ75's, any revolver made by S&W, Ruger, or Colt. While those firearms may not have a defense or "tactical" advances like today's polymer framed guns, they are typically very accurate, have great SA triggers and are pleasant to shoot because of their mass.


Now if you do want to make sure your great-grandchildren are still enjoying your M&Ps, Glocks, and XD's, maybe you should lather them up with some of this from time to time:

https://www.goldeagle.com/product/303-automotive-protectant
 
Along another thought path, Glock chose to make the grip frame the serialized firearm so when the polymer does degrade, the gun is lost.

The Sig P320 (& P250 and similar designs, even the Kel Tec handguns) serialized the firing control unit, and those are all metal components. Those polymer grips can be replaced so those designs/guns can easily last 129 years.
 
cc-hangfire said:
Along another thought path, Glock chose to make the grip frame the serialized firearm so when the polymer does degrade, the gun is lost.

The Sig P320 (& P250 and similar designs, even the Kel Tec handguns) serialized the firing control unit, and those are all metal components. Those polymer grips can be replaced so those designs/guns can easily last 129 years.
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Good point. There's plenty of 130-year-old wood-and-steel guns where the wood furniture isn't original and nobody calls the gun disposable. The polymer on the guns you mentioned (and rifles like the AR-15) is analogous to wood furniture on wood-and-steel firearms.
 
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