Guns no longer welcome at Starbucks

[627PCFan]

#1 Theres a big difference between long gun OC, and handgun OC.

#2 Quote:
Originally Posted by bdickens
Thank you, all you Open Carry in-your-face activists. Thank you. Happy now?

The vast majority of OC'ers are not OC'ing for the sake of rubbing it in peoples face. They OC for dress reasons, accessiblity reasons, retention, ect. To lump the group of activitists in with common everyday OC'ers inappropriate at best, and disservice to the movement regardless of whether or not your practice it.

 

[SunnySlopes]

saw this on another forum

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/1940063333/p/1

Interesting comments there as well.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Yup, this foolishness is exactly the reason why Starbucks issued that letter. Some people have no sense of appropriateness. And some of those people happen to also be gun owners.


Were we at a Starbucks in Alaska or Afghanistan I'd expect to see people in the store with a long gun, because it's common for people to walk around with a long gun in such places.

 

[Warp]

I saw this on another forum and have to say it certainly doesn't paint responsible gun owners in a very positive light



Really, you normally carry your shotgun or rifle when walking around...or you pull your guns out, place them on the table and take a selfie?

That's just ridiculous.

Somebody needed/needs to tell those guys they are, well, I can't say what they are on THR.

:banghead:

 

[oldbear]

Removing foot from mouth

 

[NavyLCDR]

They are changing nothing (but threatening to in the future) and are throwing away 4 years of goodwill with a stroke of the pen.

They might have asked for people to refrain from gun-themed meetings and rally which has nothing to do with ordinary customers wearing their guns but they did not which I think is very foolish.

They had the exact right position when they were neutral and deferred to state and local laws.

Mike

I would agree. Especially if you add "They might have asked for both the anti-gun and pro-2A groups to refrain from gun-themed meetings and rally which has nothing to do with ordinary customers wearing their guns but they did not which I think is very foolish." However, Starbucks "request" that people not bring their guns into their stores or sidewalk areas is not anti-politics or anti-political rallies. It is clearly anti-gun. Nowhere in the letter do I see a request for the anti-gun crowd to stop their activities (maybe I missed it). The anti-gun protests are "unsettling and upsetting" for me, but I am not a customer with equal worth, apparently, to Starbucks.

 

[X-Rap]

I'm as pro OC RTKBA as anyone but we do ourselves no service when we turn the right we support into some kind of circus better associated with the Kardashian clan or Ms. Lohan.
Public selfies and in your face videos on you tube and facebook generally represent us in a bad light when done in poor taste or against the backdrop unwilling participants.
I happen to believe that we need the presence of firearms in public life but when it is in your face it becomes counter productive.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
This is a perfect example of how over-zealous open carry activists have managed to screw things up.

I agree.

Really. Why is it I have to check who is outside before I head out to the range with my firearms/ Its because people freak out if they see anything that looks like a gun. Open carry is nothing more than the expression of ones belief and you and others want to quash that. Always blaming the wrong people.

You know I find it offensive when women dress like sluts and men wear their pants below their backside and dress like trash but hey, thats their right but someone who open carry has to go into a closet and curb their right to express themselves. After all its legal. Thing is we are letting the antigun people define us and how we express ourselves. We have become second class citizens.

I would like to tell Starbux's CEO a simple question. Who does he think has the income to purchase his $5-$7 cups of coffee. Cash strapped students or gun owners.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

I just saw those pictures. If one wishes to open carry that means the handgun stays in the holster and the rifle stays on the shoulder. You don't play with it because when you do its no longer Open Carry.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Who does he think has the income to purchase his $5-$7 cups of coffee. Cash strapped students or gun owners.

Well, 40% of their business comes from college students between the ages of 18-24. Not sure about the percentage of gun owners. I'm a student at UALR in Little Rock and we have a Starbucks on campus. It's always full. In any given class, you will see a half dozen Starbucks cups on the desks. I'm not arguing with your logic in your post, I agree with it. But college students are a HUGE part of their business.

 

[Warp]

I was a college student (and college employee) as recently as last year, and have been to three different colleges in two different states.

So let me just say this...college students buy Starbucks.

 

[TarDevil]

i just saw those pictures. If one wishes to open carry that means the handgun stays in the holster and the rifle stays on the shoulder. You don't play with it because when you do its no longer open carry.

nailed it!

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Queen_of_Thunder: Open carry is nothing more than the expression of ones belief and you and others want to quash that. Always blaming the wrong people.

Open carry is a convenient, legitimate way of carrying a firearm; it is sometimes a practical necessity, depending upon the size of the firearm and its intended usage. Open carry has its advantages and its disadvantages which we have discussed here at length. It is lawful in some jurisdictions and unlawful in others.

When open carry becomes "the expression of ones belief", it can be expected to incite the expression of the opposing beliefs of others. People who carry firearms are in a distinct minority. People who oppose the open carry of firearms are in many parts of the country part of a sizable plurality, if not a majority. Some people do not really care very much at all, until they are asked. Walking around in an urban coffee shop with black long arms unlimbered and semiautomatic pistols in hand is guaranteed to bring out those who oppose the practice.

That is what has happened here.

I would like to tell Starbux's CEO a simple question. Who does he think has the income to purchase his $5-$7 cups of coffee. Cash strapped students or gun owners.

The CEO no doubt already has his answer to the real question, and that is, who is more important to his business, urban and suburban coffee drinkers who frequent the stores, or open carry activists.

Some--probably a minority, but that's not important--of the former may be gun owners.

 

[316SS]

Starbucks' previous stance (follow local laws) was about as neutral as possible. By publishing this letter Howard is picking a side, since the request is for only one side of the debate to change their behavior.

As for whose fault this is? It takes two to tango.

 

[Outlaw Man]

They kicked our butts? How? We lost? How?

By taunting "us" (the select few in the pro-gun community that think it's OK to whip out your gun in public for a few snapshots) into escalating the protests to the point Starbucks was forced to take action, and that action is telling the rest of us (responsible, respectful gun owners) to disarm or get our coffee elsewhere. So, one more place with a (implied) ban on carrying. I see that as a loss.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Starbucks' previous stance (follow local laws) was about as neutral as possible. By publishing this letter Howard is picking a side, since the request is for only one side of the debate to change their behavior.

He did mention in the letter that anti gun people were causing him problems too.
And BTW, Starbucks was kind of forced to pick a side when they didn't want to. If a for profit business is forced to pick a side, they will choose the side that makes them the most money.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Starbucks was forced to take action, and that action is telling the rest of us (responsible, respectful gun owners) to disarm or get our coffee elsewhere.

This is absolutely false. You should read what is being discussed before jumping to conclusions. They have told absolutely no one do disarm or get their coffee elsewhere. They have respectfully asked that guns not be brought in the store or their sidewalk area. They have explicitly instructed their employees to not refuse service to anyone or make an issue if someone is carrying.

It makes you sound more credible if you get the facts straight before jumping in with both feet.

 

[Sapper771]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
This is a perfect example of how over-zealous open carry activists have managed to screw things up.







Really. Why is it I have to check who is outside before I head out to the range with my firearms/ Its because people freak out if they see anything that looks like a gun. Open carry is nothing more than the expression of ones belief and you and others want to quash that. Always blaming the wrong people.

You know I find it offensive when women dress like sluts and men wear their pants below their backside and dress like trash but hey, thats their right but someone who open carry has to go into a closet and curb their right to express themselves. After all its legal. Thing is we are letting the antigun people define us and how we express ourselves. We have become second class citizens.

Really.

I dont disagree with you. We have rights and we should exercise them, but as 9mmepiphany's pics show, they do get abused....which in turn gives us a bad name. Nothing we can do about that, but we all get punished for their acts....And you say I am part of the problem????

I dont want to squash anything but the people damaging our culture. They Are to be blamed. If open carry is legal where you are at, by all means OPEN CARRY. Its your right!

But......just because it is our right.....doesn't mean everyone will like it.

How do you express yourself through open carry?

 

[Warp]

This is absolutely false. You should read what is being discussed before jumping to conclusions. They have told absolutely no one do disarm or get their coffee elsewhere. They have respectfully asked that guns not be brought in the store or their sidewalk area. They have explicitly instructed their employees to not refuse service to anyone or make an issue if someone is carrying.

It makes you sound more credible if you get the facts straight before jumping in with both feet.

Whic his respectfully asking people to either:

1) Disarm
2) Use the drive through
3) Get their coffee/etc elsehwere

 

[TarDevil]

If a for profit business is forced to pick a side, they will choose the side that makes them the most money.

He certainly did it for the money, I'll agree... not from revenue but from liability.

Even at my LGS, if I unholster my gun I'll be asked once to reholster, and if I don't I'll be asked to leave. These people handling guns in public are a disaster in making.

 

[rooter]

A lot of people are missing the deviousness of Starbucks statement.

No, they are just being logical and unbiased. Choosing not to make a mountain from a mole hill.

I would rather Starbucks just flat out posted their stores and prohibited guns.

No you wouldn't. If that were the case, you would be bitching about it on here as well.

Starbucks, and other paying customers, became tired of the OC attention seekers rallying there. I've said it before, those OC attention seekers do nothing but make gun owners appear as nut jobs. This reinforces my point.

 

[Njal Thorgeirsson]

I personally think that it is very obvious that he is not picking a side, he's trying to restore neutrality by attempting to return Starbucks to a place where people aren't trying really hard to make loud political statements. He has said specifically that they will continue to serve (and not confront) anyone who is carrying. They're just trying to get people to stop showing up with firearms for political reasons. And I don't blame them.

We should think of this as an opportunity to continue to carry if we do on a regular basis, but otherwise stop using Starbucks as a place to make political statements.

He is trying very hard to keep our rights intact. We are still allowed to OC, but he's just given us a firm request to avoid it (thereby reducing the number of OCers and restoring peace at Starbucks).

Additionally, if we simply OC there infrequently, and act like its no big deal (no rallies, long guns etc.), we will make the paranoid anti-gunners look bad.

 

[Mainsail]

^^^ Maybe you should have written the letter for him.

He wrote what he wrote. Who are we, and why are, to disect it. What you wrote is very clear, what he wrote is not (if that's what he meant).

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Even at my LGS, if I unholster my gun I'll be asked once to reholster, and if ai don't I'll be asked to leave. These people handling guns in public are a disaster in making.

Absolutely.
Unholstering a weapon for no reason, especially in public is insane.

 

[TarDevil]

what he wrote is not (if that's what he meant).

I had no trouble whatsoever understanding his letter.