H&R Club

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Sorry, have been away and not following this thread. I've been collecting pre-WWII H&R revolvers since the Dead Sea was just sick! It's so nice to see some interest in them here.
LC'92 - nice to make your acquaintance. I'm an H&R collector, also, although probably not as long as you - only the last 16 years. During that time, I worked with the late William 'Bill' Goforth who was interested in writing a book detailing the history of H&R firearms. Bill performed the tedious task of compililing literature research, while I collected the hardware. As my collection developed and expanded, I was able to provide "hard" evidence to flesh out his "soft" data. The culmination of this collaboration will be published sometime later this year. I am surprised to not have had contact with you previous to this time, as I post on about 10 different forum sites, sharing and seeking information about H&Rs
Regarding the first Double Action H&R made, the one with the sideplate. I believe this is called the 1880 Double Action. Interesting to see one here as they are seldom recognized these days and never appreciated for what they are.
I have 3 of them. Very well made, much in the order of the Colts of the day. Two variations of them I have known in two calibers and two barrel lengths. The newest or second model has the trigger guard slot milled all the was through the front of the frame, just as Jim has shown in the picture of the American Double Action. The first model has the slot rounded and stopping before it exits the frame. Both held in by screws. A quicky pic taken with a cell phone, sorry, hope this feature can be seen.

Attachment 146659
I have two of the "Model 1880s" - both of mine are pictured in a previous posting and both have the "milled through end of frame" trigger guard attachment. I have not seen nor heard of the other type/variation that has a "fitted, blind end" milled slot, of which you provided a picture. This is the type of information that is slowly coming into the public domain, chiefly from sites and forums such as this. Would you share the serial numbers of the pieces you have, so that I can add it to my research files? My two are s/n 3644 and 4059. Unfortunately, it is too late to include this info in the Goforth book.
I was, similarly, not familiar with the two barrel lengths.

I'm of the opinion that the first couple of hundred American Double Action used left over parts from the 1880's, hence the round barrels and screw attached trigger guard. Jim you have the latest round barreled I have seen, all to date are under 200 though.
You may be correct about the barrels, but if you compare the trigger guards - you can see that the configuration is a bit different. I've attached a pic for reference.
IMG_0740_2.jpg
As to the early ADAs - we've identified two variations of the 1st (round barrel, screw attached trigger guard) Model, with help from another collector on another site. The first variation - the single action sear lever is internally attached to the trigger lug - thus the rear pin holding the trigger guard in place is further back on the frame (towards the grip) than on the second variation - here the SA sear and trigger guard are held in place with one pin which is moved forward. My 1st Modl 1st Var. are s/n 171, 173 and 200 (previously owned 176 - sold to another collector) - all are as described with "rear" pin. My 1st Mod 2nd Var. piece is s/n 14, which has the pin moved forward.
IMG_0780_2.jpg
IMG_0767_3.jpg

I look forward to hearing more from you about the early H&Rs - there is lots that I need to learn. Thanks for sharing.
 
Ray,
Never got your pm.
I pm'd you with the answer also, did you ever get that one?

32 magnum, This thread is turning into the Energizer bunny!
Just keeps going, and going,.........


PS,
Good news! I think.
Barring anymore unforseen problems, I have a tentative release date of this Tuesday.
Really concerned if I am going to be able to care for myself, and not end up in a long term facility.
Been having 3 intense physical therapy sessions a day, and other than being sick for a 3 day stretch, they are going well.
Very tired by the time the last session is over, but, I've been in the hospital for almost 2 months now, and it's time to man up and get my ass home!!
Maybe be able to finally see my new model 976!
Wish me luck!
 
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jamesjo,
Good news, I think so too.
Enjoy your 976 - send me some pics.
I wish you more than luck, my friend - I wish you all the Blessings.
e-mail me with which name you are going to be using.
Jim
 
Jim, bummer about the pm or lack of one. In it you indicated my 900 is a 1964. I was very happy, I am going tomorrow to look at a 22 snub nose H&R. It is great you have a release date and I am very happy to hear of it. Just take it every so easy and I am sure you realize the point of taking the break when you get close. The heat here has gave me no break either. I even put my insurance card in my wallet today just in case. Have a great weekend and dont let the stress of getting out overcome you. I know it can be tough on someone to be getting out of the hospital and it takes some getting used to. I have been there. With the surgery on my stomach alone I should not have been here to write this. Please feel free to write anytime and I will for sure answer..Thanks again and the best of wishes for you Jim..Ray
 
gyvel,
Originally, they were designed to handle .22 SHORTS. I "think" .22 longs will also fit in the cylinder. .22lr should prove to be too long.
As to whether your individual piece is safe to shoot other than the very low powered cb caps - depends upon the condition of that gun. If it is in safe condition to handle modern factory loaded ammo - then it should be able to fire .22 SHORTS or anything less powerful. You need to make a safety evaluation on you gun, or have a gunsmith do so.
Good luck and enjoy shooting that oldie.
 
Just picked up a ".22 SPECIAL," serial number 60233X. Any info our resident experts can provide would be appreciated! Sorry for the cell phone pictures, the hard drive on my laptop is fried, so I'm running linux off my SD card...
 

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.45Guy,
From the serial number and the easily seen externals - your "22 SPECIAL" is a 5th Variation made between 1939 and 1942. You can confirm this 5th Var. if the cylinder is NOT free wheeling (i.e. it will not turn with the hammer down.)
An automatic cylinder stop system was incorporated into the "22 SPECIAL" series around late 1938, early 1939. Previously, the cylinder would spin freely with the hammer down, but be locked up tightly with the hammer cocked or would lock in DA just before sear disengagement and hold until the trigger was release. If it spins freely, it is a VERY late 4th Var. that I would like to confirm for my research records.
A little background info: the "22 SPECIAL" model derived from the H&R AUTO EJECTING model series, circa 1925 and was/is serial numbered in the same series/sequence as the parent model. In 1932, the frame was changed from a square but design taking two piece grip panels, to the "RICE type" frame (bird's head shaped) which required a one-piece 'monogrip'. This Rice frame was used on all the H&R handguns of that time up to a major frame change in 1953. The SPECIAL proved to be fairly popular during this time and a spin off model was the H&R SPORTSMAN in circa 1932, which originally had a fixed front sight and a windage adjustable rear sight built into the barrel latch.
"22 SPECIAL" pieces in V.Good to EXC. condition sell at a fairly good RETAIL price ranging up around and slightly over $300 for 100% examples. Can't really tell the condition of your piece from the photos, but if in "average 80% to 90% condition and all works, it should value in the $175 to $200 range, currently.

IMG_0349.jpg

IMG_0381.jpg
 
.45 Guy,
Thanks for getting back so quickly - your piece is a very early 5th Variation - in fact it is the lowest s/n in that variation that I currently have a record for (now.)
Thanks, again.
Jim
 
Thank you for all the information! Did all the specials have the double patent dates on the cylinder? I've been looking for another online, and they don't appear to have it... Also, was it H&R practice to cut ungodly deep rifling? My 922, and prehistoric Premier .32 are nowhere in the ballpark of this thing.
 
.45Guy,
The "22 SPECIAL" story is a lot less complicated than the SPORTSMAN sagas.
The FIRST variations of the SPECIAL were a direct take-off from the AUTO EJECTING revolver that first appeared back in the mid 1880s. These early ones will have a 7 shot .22 rimfire (.22 s, l, or lr) cylinder with a smooth rear face. Around 1928, H&R began chambering the SPECIAL for .22 Winchester Rim Fire (the father of the 1950's .22 Win. Magnum) in 7 shot and made the .22 lr into a 9 shooter - the cylinder was still smooth. When the major manufacturer's began producing the "HIGH SPEED" .22 lr loads in/about 1930 - '31, H&R and others adapted their designs to protect the shooter from the risk of case head splitting, which apparantly was a fairly common occurence. H&R designed and applied for a patent for a raised rim around the breech face of the cylinder - at that point the cylinders will be stamped with "PATENT APPLIED FOR." Around Spring of 1933, the patent was granted and the cylinders will have the one patent stamping "PAT. NO. 1904730". Later around April of '36 the second patent number was added to the cylinder. So now you had the first Patent # and the second: "PAT. NO. 2034632". Both of these stamping can be read while looking at the left side of the gun. A couple years later, H&R began stamping the same numbers on the cylinder, in a smaller font and readable from the right side. So that's the story on the SPECIALS.

IMG_0196_3.jpg

IMG_0178.jpg

IMG_0176.jpg

IMG_0184_2.jpg

Almost forgot your question about the deep cut rifling - YEP, H&R developed, with the help of Walter Roper a "special" rifling technique to be used on their "USRA MODEL SINGLE SHOT TARGET PISTOL". All the other .22s made at that time were beneficiaries of that deep cut rifling and the subsequent excellent accuracy. As far as I know, that type of rifling was not extended to other calibers - so the 22 SPECIALS, SPORTSMAN DA and SA (pre WW2), Model 922s and the USRA target pistols would all have had this type of rifling.
 
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doc2rn,
How's about some info on that 199? Need data for my research on the SPORTSMAN series.
s/n?
adjustable front sight?
cylinder with safety rim?
Any patent dates on the cylinder?
cylinder release on right side (1" bar latch) or left side (small push button)?
manufacturer's name and address on top of barrel rib or right side of barrel?
 
does anyone know how to read the serial number to tell what year a gun was made. I have an h&r 922 serial number starting with N followed by 5 numbers. Any ideas
 
Interesting thread. I have this blue "The American Double Action" currently for sale on Gunbroker. I don't know if you can post auction links here or not so I will refrain. If anyone here is interested you can find it in a search. Here's a pic:

IMG_2043.gif
 
mustang 7 said:
does anyone know how to read the serial number to tell what year a gun was made. I have an h&r 922 serial number starting with N followed by 5 numbers. Any ideas
Click to expand...
My 732 has a V prefix, which indicates 1959 as the date of manufacture. An N prefix is nine letters earlier, so that would be 1950. After H&R reached Z in 1963, they went to two letter prefixes, Starting AA 1964, AB 1965, etc.
 
N = 1953. H&R skipped 'O' and 'Q' for obvious reasons. M (1952) was the year the last year for the "RICE" bird's head grip frames. 1953 was the first year of the square butt grip frames.
 
Ah, I forgot about O and Q being left out. You're right, N - 1953, P - 1954, R - 1955, S -1956, T- 1957, U - 1958, V - 1959, W - 1960, X - 1961, Y - 1962, Z - 1963. Then begin again with AA, AB, AC . . .
 
G.C. Burner You got it, buddy.

tightgroup - care to share the s/n on the 22 SPECIAL it is a very early 1st Variation from the looks of it - maybe 1926 or so. I'll bet the serial number is in the 490K range?

IMG_0326.jpg
 
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