H&R Handi Rifle failure to fire

[Jack Hinson]

Several years ago I bought an H&R Handi Rifle in 30-06. Sometimes it would fire, other times it would not. I stuck it in a closet and looked at it occasionally, tried removing the firing pin. There was no obvious reason it was not working.

Lately, I have gone on the Internet to see if I could diagnose the problem, which seems to be fairly common with rimless versions. Turns out, the problem is that the chamber is cut too deeply and the cartridge goes in too deeply when the firing pin impacts the primer; sometimes it fires, often it does not.

I "fixed" it by wrapping two layers of paper masking tape of the sort used for painting from where the case tapered towards the bullet to just before the bullet. So far, all the rounds fired, the tape adheres to the cartridge case, and the case seems to expand to fill the chamber. I intend to expand this post with pictures but have not now gotten around to taking them.

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

Umm IMO I'd have it looked at and fixed properly by a professional. Putting a foreign object into your chamber in between the chamber and case isn't a good idea.

 

[edwardware]

I "fixed" it by wrapping two layers of paper masking tape of the sort used for painting from where the case tapered towards the bullet to just before the bullet. So far, all the rounds fired, the tape adheres to the cartridge case, and the case seems to expand to fill the chamber.

Oh. . . my.

I'm glad that worked for you, really, but please don't do that again. If there's room for a two layers of masking tape in the excess headspace, it's disastrously excessive. An experienced handloader might make this work by treating it like a wildcat, but you should not be firing factory ammo in it.

 

[JDeere]

Not good and I personally would not be shooting it like that...I bought one once thinking I could get a cheap rifle to shoot decent. Never happened even after trying all of the tricks on the HR forum. You use to be able to get replacement barrels but they cut that program out. It's stashed way back in the safe now. Not even worth trying to sell the thing...

 

[Jack Hinson]

What a bunch of wimps.
I'd have it looked at and fixed properly by a professional.
If there's room for a two layers of masking tape in the excess headspace,
It's stashed way back in the safe now.

I have the cases of the cartridges that actually fired when I first bought the thing, maybe half that I put in it. They all have light firing pin impressions on the primers, just like the ones that did not fire. There was no rupture or obvious damage to any of the fired cartridges, hence I decided there was no danger in trying the masking tape to keep the cartridges against the receiver. As for excessive head space, in the Handi Rifle the cartridge base rests on the receiver, not in a bolt face.

IMHO, there is nothing a "professional" could do to fix the problem (other than replacing the barrel), short of rechambering, and I do not know of another cartridge for which a 30-06 could be realistically rechambered.

 

[Jack Hinson]

Not good and I personally would not be shooting it like that...I bought one once thinking I could get a cheap rifle to shoot decent. Never happened even after trying all of the tricks on the HR forum. You use to be able to get replacement barrels but they cut that program out. It's stashed way back in the safe now. Not even worth trying to sell the thing...

H&R was bought by Remington, which deepsixed the H&R brand and has now declared bankruptcy.

 

[LoonWulf]

A novel idea to correct a headspace issue.

We're it my gun I would rechamber to .30 Gibbs


What I would suggest doing tho is fireforming cases to your chamber. If you don't handload, might be worth starting.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Is the gun in question an original Gardner, MA production or a Remlin Ilion, NY production?

 

[rbernie]

What I would suggest doing tho is fireforming cases to your chamber. If you don't handload, might be worth starting.

This is my first though; firing will form the brass to the chamber, and neck sizing won't perturb that. Et voila!

 

[edwardware]

What a bunch of wimps.

Hey it's your face. Fact remains that if you have that much excess headspace, you will have the occasional head separation.

There was no rupture or obvious damage to any of the fired cartridges, hence I decided. . .

Ok, since you're a handloader you can address this by fireforming with a jammed bullet and partial full length sizing, just like a wildcat with blown-forward shoulders. Since your examination included checking for incipient head separations, measured shoulder position, and primer extension, please tell us what the excess measurement is (including primer extension if any) based on the unfired brass.

As for excessive head space, in the Handi Rifle the cartridge base rests on the receiver, not in a bolt face.

Correct. And headspace is measured to the breech face, be it bolt or receiver. No difference whatsoever.

 

[edwardware]

This is my first though; firing will form the brass to the chamber, and neck sizing won't perturb that. Et voila!

Hinge-breech arms, lacking the primary extraction leverage of a bolt, frequently won't operate on a neck-sized case. If his chamber is smooth enough to, then that's the easiest solution.

 

[Jack Hinson]

A novel idea to correct a headspace issue.

We're it my gun I would rechamber to .30 Gibbs


What I would suggest doing tho is fireforming cases to your chamber. If you don't handload, might be worth starting.

Fireforming the cases to my chamber is precisely what I am doing.

 

[LoonWulf]

Fireforming the cases to my chamber is precisely what I am doing.

Have you tried reloading them, and firing them afterwards? I'm curious if they actually do work better than before firing with tape.

Anyway, as to the function, it appears you have an answer your happy with already. Have fun, and be safe.

 

[entropy]

What a bunch of wimps.
I'd have it looked at and fixed properly by a professional.
If there's room for a two layers of masking tape in the excess headspace,
It's stashed way back in the safe now.

I have the cases of the cartridges that actually fired when I first bought the thing, maybe half that I put in it. They all have light firing pin impressions on the primers, just like the ones that did not fire. There was no rupture or obvious damage to any of the fired cartridges, hence I decided there was no danger in trying the masking tape to keep the cartridges against the receiver. As for excessive head space, in the Handi Rifle the cartridge base rests on the receiver, not in a bolt face.

IMHO, there is nothing a "professional" could do to fix the problem (other than replacing the barrel), short of rechambering, and I do not know of another cartridge for which a 30-06 could be realistically rechambered.

That is exactly what needs to be done to correct the problem. Either a whole new barrel assembly , fitted, or setting the current chamber back, and refitting the barrel to the monoblock. Call me wimp, but I am also one of those 'professionals' who knows how to fix the problem.I also know what can potentially happen if you keep shooting it the way you are.

Just sayin......

We're it my gun I would rechamber to .30 Gibbs

Also a valid solution.

The .30-06 cartridge, in any type of action heaspaces, or 'rests' as you so quaintly put it, on the SHOULDER of the cartridge.

Fireforming the cases to my chamber is precisely what I am doing.

Not if you are putting paper in between the brass and where it headspaces.......

 

[Jack Hinson]

A novel idea to correct a headspace issue.

We're it my gun I would rechamber to .30 Gibbs


What I would suggest doing tho is fireforming cases to your chamber. If you don't handload, might be worth starting.

I have a hundred or so 30-06 cartridges dedicated to this rifle, so I did not want to go to another caliber, especially a wildcat. As I shoot them, the cases will be fireformed to it and I intend to build a set of dies for handloading it without case sizing, just neck sizing to be able to load the bullets.

 

[entropy]

You can lead a horse to water......good luck.

Yeah, that's logical- neck size a wildcat (because once you have dies made to your chamber dimensions, that's exactly what it will be, despite your protestations), in a gun proven to have extraction problems already.........

 

[Jack Hinson]

Have you tried reloading them, and firing them afterwards? I'm curious if they actually do work better than before firing with tape.

Anyway, as to the function, it appears you have an answer your happy with already. Have fun, and be safe.

That's the next step. I just found some large rifle primers yesterday, and am looking for powder. Handloading supplies are in short supply, I think everywhere.

 

[Dr T]

Well, if there is room for 2 layers of masking tape, you could perhaps make some fireformed brass by partially neck sizing some 35 Whelen brass to 30 caliber to chamber with the proper headspace and go from there. That way you could have a 300 Whelen.

Personally, however, I would donate it to a local gunsmith ing school for some one to use in a student project.

 

[.455_Hunter]

It appears the OP is the proud owner of the rare .30-03 Handi-Rifle.

 

[edwardware]

It appears the OP is the proud owner of the rare .30-03 Handi-Rifle.

You just won the thread. Why didn't I think of that?

 

[Jack Hinson]

This is a chambered round that failed to fire when I first bought the rifle several years ago. Sorry about the quality of the picture, I'll try for better ones later.

Well, if there is room for 2 layers of masking tape, you could perhaps make some fireformed brass by partially neck sizing some 35 Whelen brass to 30 caliber to chamber with the proper headspace and go from there. That way you could have a 300 Whelen.

Personally, however, I would donate it to a local gunsmith ing school for some one to use in a student project.

My bag is buying junk ( when I bought it, I did not know it had problems, I just like single shot firearms) and making them work. I do not require my solutions be elegant, just that they work.

 

[Jack Hinson]

Two cartridges from when I originally bought the rifle, one fired, one did not.

 

[Jack Hinson]

These are cartridges from my experiment. The top two fired and the bottom one was prepared but I decided that I did not need to try to fire it. Good enough is good enough.

 

[Jack Hinson]

It appears the OP is the proud owner of the rare .30-03 Handi-Rifle.

From what I read on other forums, unfortunately not so rare. They did not do a great job making rifles for headless cartridges.

 

[entropy]

Yup. .455 Hunter is right. Basically a .30-03.

Reminds me of my son's solution when his brake lines started leaking from being corroded out. He kept clamping them off, until the last one failed......luckily, he was able to effect a stop without crashing the truck. I wish you the same luck.

Did you get your inspiration from this thread?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-wouldnt-try-that.871634/#post-11569565