Had a KB! How do YOU properly check case crimp???

[918v]

Pull the bullets and measure their diameter.

 

[MtnCreek]

I'd imagine it could be done to ANY bullet, but a properly tensioned/retained bullet would buckle/wrinkle the case first???

Unless it's roll crimped or a heavy taper crimp into a canalure, the bullet will setback with enough force.

I'm betting on too much tight-group. Is your press still setup just as it was when you loaded these cartridges? If so, I suggest going through every station. Size & Measure. Bell & Measure. Charge & Measure……

 

[MtnCreek]

I'd say it is a safe bet that the cause was loaded at/near max charge with a fast ,unforgiving powder & setback issues created way-overmax pressures in an unsuported chamber that shouldn't be loaded to max to begin with.

This is one of the main reasons I am not interested in any fast powders, I always use slower powders that fill the case up enough , and won't be as tempermental if the bullet gets pushed in a bit.

It's just one of those life learning lessons. Glad you or your other half didn't get hurt. Now ,time to save up for a replacement.

Looks like a Gen 4; I think they are fully supported now, I think...

 

[GLOOB]

All plated bullets aren't the same. Rainiers shoot more like cast bullets than Berrys. So when you hear other people recommending jacketed data for Berrys, you can't transfer that to all plated bullets. Rainiers specifically recommends using cast lead data for their bullets. Berrys specifically recommends low to mid level jacketed data for their bullets.

My own personal experience with trying to substitute 155 grain Rainer's for 155 gr Berry's without changing load data was I ended up with loads that were too hot for my G27. So hot, they sometimes failed to extract, at all. To be fair, the Rainers were a smidge longer, decreasing internal case volume, but not by much.

Side note: after playing with lots of different loads in a few different 40sw guns, I'm pretty convinced that the G27 is borderline for max loadings. A heavier spring can fix that, but it also increases the propensity for limp-wrist malfunctions. I am currently leaving my 9mm conversion barrel in my G27, by default. I shoot most of my 40 through my FNX, these days.

 

[918v]

I did a QuickLoad check of your combo. Assuming you were using a 180 grain bullet, reducing the OAL from 1.135" to 1.080" raised the pressures by 25000 PSI, theoretically.

 

[243winxb]

wish I had a way to measure and this my point of this thread)

For the 223, i have taken a bath room scale. A piece of wood to form leverage to push the seated bullet into the empty case. Should take 35 to 45 lbs. Seating of the bullet will expand the neck about .002" on seating. I have no idea of what 40 S&W neck tension should be?? Possibly run a test with factory ammo (not sure this is safe??) or a jacketed bullet dummy ?? Great photos.

 

[Neutered10mm]

I was thinking of a similar approach (bathroom scale) ... need to get ahold of some Hornady 165gr. Critical Defense first ... my carry load is 180gr Hyrdrashock. I will definitely keep this thread updated with my findings. I did manage to work up a dummy round on the current press setup and it's outside diameter after seat/crimp was .422" and it took 7-8 blows to remove it ... bullet uncreased ... forgot to pressure check setback, but can do so after work today.

Thanks A LOT guys for all the input ... keep in coming!

 

[Certaindeaf]

Looks like a Gen 4; I think they are fully supported now, I think...

To me, it looks to be about half supported.

 

[rg1]

What's the possibility that the pistol fired out of battery without the case fully chambered. The blown up case in the barrel looks like it was fully chambered but the damaged case looks like it wasn't fully chambered. Any Glock armorer experts with any thoughts on "firing out of battery"?

 

[Certaindeaf]

.My own personal experience with trying to substitute 155 grain Rainer's for 155 gr Berry's without changing load data was I ended up with loads that were too hot for my G27. So hot, they sometimes failed to extract, at all..

Were you ripping rims off? Sounds odd.

 

[dwhite]

Would a slower powder, say Unique, have the same increase in pressure with the same amount of setback as compared to the Titegroup load?

Titegroup in .40 is just scary. Now I've used Clays before but only in bunny fart loads just enough to eject the spent case. No way I'd start pushing max with either of these.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[MtnCreek]

Out of battery...

Look at post 36, photos 2 and 3. The case head has had some serious pressure to mare the casehead like that. Also, post 37, photo 3. The case looks like it was seated in the chamber to proper depth; it just extruded out because of way excess pressure. If I every dbl charge a case, I'll probably question if it was fired out of battery...

 

[gunnysmith]

Reference this thread concerning the difficulties of unsuppoted chambers:
Photos on Page 2

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=645850&p=7992259#post7992259

 

[Certaindeaf]

.If I every dbl charge a case, I'll probably question if it was fired out of battery..

Note depth measurements and post #55.

 

[GLOOB]

Were you ripping rims off? Sounds odd.

No. The extractor jumped the rims and left the brass in the chamber, leading the gun to doublefeed. (Also, the recoil was brutal, and I couldn't keep the rounds on a pie plate at 25 feet!) The brass easily fell out by gravity or a little finger pressure after clearing the gun. FTR, there were no bulges, and the brass and primers looked fine.

It could be my extractor spring is weak. I ordered a couple spares. But there was definitely some higher residual pressure going on while the gun was was trying to extract. Because after changing to a heavier recoil spring, the same rounds extracted and fed fine, and accuracy was much improved. I've put plenty of rounds through it in the interim, and with the proper loads and spring combo, it will run 99.9%. Out of curiosity, the same (presumably overpressure) loads were ace out of my stock FNX (accurate with just an average feeling recoil), but I have since backed off on the charge.

These loads were using AutoComp, which is very slow powder, looking at the burn rate charts. This powder may be testing the limits of the Glock's relatively short action.

 

[gunnysmith]

If you have reviewed the other post I refered you to:

Probability is, the weakened case web of the reloaded round in conjunction with the unsupported part of the chamber, was the cause, not OAL or any other reloading technique.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.Probability is, the weakened case web of the reloaded round in conjunction with the unsupported part of the chamber, was the cause, not OAL or any other reloading technique.

Did you miss the part about the measured oal and post 55 etc?
Let's just say that particular one was 1/4" short.. (who knows but what we do know is that measured setback was noted and conveyed) that'd sure blow something up.. except maybe a hipoint.

 

[Walkalong]

That is some serious over pressure. Sure, you are getting some bullet setback, but is that enough to do that kind of damage? I dunno, I would lean towards a double charge, plus setback, but who knows.

I have posted here before that if a case is bulged to the point my sizer will not size it, I don't want to use it, even if a push through die (bulge buster) can squeeze it down enough to chamber, because to bulge like that, it has to thin when it does.

I also agree with 918v that a little expansion from pressure is completely different than a bulge from over pressure like in the pic he posted.

Glad you are OK. I hope you get your neck tension solved, and perhaps you may want to try a medium speed powder that fills the case more.

 

[antlermafia]

I have the same exact load set up right now. I'm going to check my oal. Feeling nervous about shooting them in my Glock 22 and 23. Shot about 500 so far with no problems. My powder weight doesn't go over 4.8

 

[GLOOB]

I find it telling that with AutoComp, I'm getting crazy signs of overpressure (insane recoil and failures to extract), and I'm still not even getting Glocked brass. No smilies. Not even a lopsided bulge that comes close to what I see on some of my range pickups.

Then with a powder like Titegroup, people are getting kB's out of the blue. (Universal also seems to have a bad rep in this caliber).I wonder if there's any relationship between Glocked brass and kB's, at all. Because it seems like whenever a kB is reported, it just came out of nowhere.

 

[gunnysmith]

brass was once fired from a police range pickup. Brass was then tumbled in a Thumblers Tumbler with SS media, 1 gallon of water, Lemishine & Dawn. After drying, bases were lubed, run through Lee De-bulge kit and then through each station of my setup. Station 1 = deprime/resize, Station 2 = prime/bell, Station 3 = powder, Station 4 = powder cop, Station 5 = seat/crimp. The reloader is a Hornady LNL AP and the dies are Hornady.

I'll let this speak for me as far as reloading buldged cases from unsupported chambers



This is the sectioned resized case, the weakness is still there

 

[Certaindeaf]

Setback is not good. Setback is serious. These days, it's common to coalshovel found/used range brass for general/peersonal use. There's no law against that, of course, except for the laws of physics. Heck, who knows what your paid for "once fired" pin tumbled/hardened brass really is? It sure is shiny though! anyway

 

[Neutered10mm]

Based on the picture of what is considered "bulged", I'd definitely never try and resize that! All my brass is regular expansion bulges with nothing nearly as gnarly as what was pictured in post #44 by 918v. Anything with a pin divot or neck ding is tossed!

Also, my G27 was a Gen 3 and the barrel issues that are notirious are from Gen1 Glocks ... yes they are all unsupported, but only slightly so after Gen1 barrels were retooled by Glock.

 

[gunnysmith]

This is serious over pressure





This is appears to be chamber pressure gas cutting from a weak case wall OP’s Original photo

 

[MtnCreek]

The tool marks from the slide are clearly printed on the case head. This cartridge was way over pressure.