Had a KB! How do YOU properly check case crimp???

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TiteGroup is a very fast powder (14), especially when compared with AutoComp (43). TiteGroup's pressure development is NOT linear, it spikes badly when pushed.

I'm not surprised that the results from the TiteGroup's pressure spike was much more severe than the AutoComp...
 
The tool marks from the slide are clearly printed on the case head. This cartridge was way over pressure.
The OP's next picture down doesn't support that.
no tool marks what you see is streaking in the carbon in the first picture.
 
Maybe so. What about the major extrusion of the brass? To me, that says major pressure issue. Would that kind of extrusion be consistent with your theory?
 
Melting Point of Brass
Between 900 and 940 degrees C.
melting point of 4130 steel melts at about 1300 °C
A set back of the bullet does increase pressure to that there is no doubt.
The combination of weakened case wall and the unsupported chamber in the Glock appears more likely.
I am only suggesting, if the chamber were fully supported, this may not have happened.
There was a reason Glock specifically voids the warrantee when reloaded brass is used and the firearm fails.
They were built for a military contract originally, reloading was not in the equation for the original design.
Glock is more fully supporting the cartridge as they introduce their revisions.
Some After market barrels do fully support the case.
 
FastCougar
What headstamp are the rounds left in the magizine that were set back (Federal or Winchester)? I will add my expierences to loading the 40s&w for Glocks it is a long story but be patient. I started out with the berrys 180gn rsds bullets and when I ran low I got some of the Rainers because they were on sale at midway and I was already making an order. When they arrived I found them to be slightly smaller in diameter than the Berrys and they miced at almost .400. At the time I had a good supply of winchester cases that I loaded them in with no problems, but once they were gone I reordered Berrys and used them for the next few years. Since then my department switched to the Federal American ammo for training so now my supply of brass is Federal. Recently Cabelas had the Hornady xtp bullets on sale so I stocked up. When I went to load them in some nice nickel plated remington cases I was unable to get a good neck tension. I even tried not belling the case. I then tried the federal cases and still the same problem. I could easly push the bullet in the case. I only had a few winchester cases left, but my neck tension was good with them. My dies are lee carbide dies and they have loaded around 8000 rounds. With this in mind I began to think that maybe my resizing die was worn and needed replacing. I called Lee and was told to send the die in. I started to but the set up is perfect for my cast bullets as it doesnt lead. A smaller resizing die will size the case smaller which may swage the cast bullet down and will cause leading. I put the xtps on the back burner until I could come up with some more winchester cases (I still havent). Another call to lee revealed that they do offer an undersized resizing die. I was told that they run about .003 smaller than their normal die. I ordered it and am wating for its arrival.
To sum all of this up The resizing die sizes the outside of all cases to the same diameter. The inside diameter will depend on the thickness of the brass. Thinner brass has a larger inside diameter, while thicker brass has a smaller diameter. MY collection of federal brass is thinner than what little winchester brass I have left, therefore it produces less neck tension. It is common knowledge that remington brass is thinner.
Now lets look at your problem. You most likely had and problem with too much pressure. Too much pressure can be caused from too much powder, wrong bullet weight for powder charge, and COL/bullet setback to name a few. You said that you were sure of the powder charge and the powder cop would show if the case had trash in it when loading. Ididnt check the load data and I would assume that you worked the load up or are at the starting load. You are using once fired brass from a police range so it was most likely fired from a glock. But keep in mind that it still could have been reloaded once before (I shoot my reloads at a Police firing range, but I always mark my brass). I would say that you are on track with the theory of bullet setback based on my expierence which is Federal brass is thinner which provides less neck tension. Rainer bullets are sized closly to jacketed diameter of .400. Using federal brass with jacketed bullets I was unable to get enough neck tension. What head stamp were the rounds left that setback?
 
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There are a ton of questions in there, so let me pick through this and answer them in order to the best of my ability. I have a full 5-gallon bucket full of range pickup from my buddy who was the range master at a police range locally for years and years. Anyway, point is, it's police issue (most likely single fire). I have about half the bucket in various stages of clean. I begin with my SS media separator where I tumble the crap out of the dirty stuff to knock out dirt/grime/rocks/grass/etc. I then give it a second rinse and sort it into caliber by hand. Once sorted and I have a full 6qt tub, I set that aside and begin tumbling ... at this point, I haven't done any QC. Now, after tumbling, I load all the rounds neck up in 50 count Federal Champion Wall-Mart special trays (I bought 1,000 rounds from Cheaper Than Dirt about 3 months ago). These trays are great for orienting the shells for inspection. I then give them a good once over mouth up looking for any dings or nick on the case mouth and any creases on overly squared mouths. Once I toss those in the recycle bin, I flip them all head up on a paper towel lined cookie sheet. At this point, I can discern head stamping and overall head condition. Based on this procedure, I'd care to say I have about 90+% federal brass with the remaining being Winchester or PMC ... every now and then the odd duckling shows up. At this point, I knock them all down and roll them around to check the case body for any dings or gouges that look suspect and weed them out into the recycle bin. Finally, I lube it all and place it in a bin marked "ready to de-bulge". That is then de-bulged one by one so I get a 2nd set of eyes on the brass ... anything that's super hard to pass is thoroughly inspected and tossed if it looks suspect. Once that's done, it goes in a bin marked "ready to load" and sits next to the reloader. I then pick them out one by one and feed the cases into the AP, making this the 3rd time I've see it ... at this point, I feel pretty damn confident that nothing suspect has gotten through the inspection process.

Now, that being said ... I have modified this process as I have been reloading and I didn't always de-bulge and in fact, loaded a few rounds that I later pulled apart since the resizing exhibited signs of the "folding over" of the bulge being pressed. I loaded up 100-150 rounds this way prior to adding the de-bulge process into the mix. I have yet to see a single case with a crease since and anything I saw before was removed.

As for how many rounds have I shot reloaded? I can tell you exactly ... I reloaded 550 rounds ... this was the very last box (on the bottom of the stack, making some of my first loads I think), I had one box of spent rounds with 3 rounds in it as well as this full box of 50 left. So I have approximately 500 rounds fired since I began reloading about a month ago.

All 50 of these rounds had Federal head stamps. Like I have said in a prior post, I have adjusted the die once since and everything I have produced lately (dummy round today for example) passed the push in test. I got around to testing the pressure required and while not exactly scientific, I was able to test the pressure required to setback the bullet of the remaining 35 that were not fired or in the mag that exploded. The bullet starts to slip between 35-50lbs. of pressure applied on a bathroom scale that is accurate to .1 lbs.

This is all I have been thinking about all day and the more and more I mull it over, the more I keep coming back to the crimp, setback and charge. I remember just how finicky the scale was measuring and getting TiteGroup to meter consistently ... leading me to believe that my 4.8-4.9 charges could have easily been overcharged to 5.0-5.2 range with the cop die showing much signs. I'll do some more measuring test and get video/pictures of my findings. BTW, my dummy round I was pressing on so long and heavily that the scale turned itself off after ramping past 75lbs. and no give in the bullet. I'm going to test on a 165gr personal defense round to compare, but I think my current setup is golden and these rounds were from an early run and possibly could have been one with a creased bulge on resizing.

One thing is for certain ... It has taught me a new found respect for just how "on the line" these things can be and it's a dangerous game to play if you do so lackadaisically. I had no idea Tite Group was such a hot powder as I went to a shop and asked for the shop reloader's recommendation. He knew I was new and I took his suggestion without prior research ... that WILL NEVER happen again. My lack of knowledge on the subject of this powder's characteristics nearly cost me my hands ... considering I'm a programmer by trade, that would make things even worse!!!
 
biogenic ... leading and leading ... don't you just love the English language :D

In context, I was led to believe ... leading me to believe. Also, if you have any press experience or work in the graphic design field, leading is also the space between lines of text because movable type from the 16th century up until digital presses were invented used lines of lead to gap the font "slugs" ;)

You are hilarious...
 
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I had no idea Tite Group was such a hot powder as I went to a shop and asked for the shop reloader's recommendation.
That reminds me of the day I bought my first reloading supplies. I had done some research on different powders and thought I might like to start off with Universal Clays. When I asked the guy helping me, he looks confused and tells me that's a shotgun powder. He was very knowledgeable about the reloading dies and presses, so I second guessed myself and ended up going with something else.

Fast powders like Titegroup are very popular with reloaders, even in 40SW. It's partly cuz lots of reloaders like light plinking ammo that's very accurate with very little recoil and with very little powder. If you tried to load a slower powder that light, you wouldn't get the same accuracy, cuz slower powders don't build enough peak pressure to burn consistently at that low of a charge. At least, in general. I made up some HP38 loads in 40SW for fun (another fast powder), and I didn't see the point. It felt like shooting 9mm. I might as well actually shoot 9mm and save some money.
 
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Before giving away my last .40, I used 700X for light loads. It worked well and is much bulkier than Titegroup.

We do not know if this was a double charge or not.
 
I was able to test the pressure required to setback the bullet of the remaining 35 that were not fired or in the mag that exploded. The bullet starts to slip between 35-50lbs. of pressure applied on a bathroom scale that is accurate to .1 lbs.
This would seem to rule out set back or neck tension as being the cause. SAAMI list COL at 1.135" max to 1.085" minimum. http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Pistol/40%20SandW.pdf
 
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This would seem to rule out set back or neck tension as being the cause.
Except for the fact that five of these were in the magazine after the kb. They seem to be setback and are overpressure because of it.

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If you formed a crease in the brass on sizing, that would be very bad. I've had some Speer LE ammo that was police range once fired; they looked to be very hot factory ammo. They could have been reloads, but that's not how they were sold to be and did not appear to be reloads. Some of them had a pretty bad belly in them. If I had to guess; they were hot factory ammo shot through a Gen 1 Glock or some LEO had monkeyed with his feedramp. I sized them with regular dies and checked them with a case gauge; any failures were discarded.

I still think your KB was caused from a massive overpressure, whether over-charged or from setback.

IMVHO, this is what I'd do: Revisit my entire loading procedure (you’ll have to do this to get yourself comfortable with loading again). Use a slower powder (HS6 would be a good one). Sell all this 'unknown' brass and use that money to purchase new brass. Keep the new brass in lots and record how many times they were fired and whether they were fired as low-end plinkers or HV loads.
 
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I would say in conjunction with all except the bitter guys, one long shell will give you that wrong kind of boom. I have caught a few. 3 to be exact. Now when belling i look for the ones with a bigger bell or the bullet just flows like a marble in a bucket. This can also happen with thin er brass in the batch. Good luck and stay vigilante. Good luck in the future and glad you did not get injured.
 
Just a couple of "reality check" questions:

Are you able to take a measurement of the length of the KB case? Not too long, right?

The barrel of the gun is clear of obstructions, right?

Glad you're OK.
 
Just a couple of "reality check" questions:

Are you able to take a measurement of the length of the KB case? Not too long, right?

The barrel of the gun is clear of obstructions, right?

Glad you're OK.
A little reality check for you.
He posted a pic of the kb case, right? Of course he could take measurements of it because he posted a picture of it and of a caliper.. it must be long because of the crack and flow, right? Check it out.
 
It flowed all right! It flowed the case body down into the web and then they both nearly made the extractor grove disappear. The overall outside diameter formed itself to the exact size of the Glock chamber, which we all should know by now has MUCH looser tolerances than most other manufacturer's barrels. I had to extract it from the barrel with a flat head screwdriver after getting the barrel separated from the slide with some massive blows with a screwdriver (brass & nylon punches weren't working) and a 2lbs. dead blow hammer. Took about 6-8 hard strikes. So yeah, I don't really see the point in measuring it :D


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HOLY SH*T!!!!

I never crimp any of my loads not so much for fear of a KB but more so because I never noticed any real benefits to crimping. I'm not saying there are no benies, I just never noticed any. glad you're ok and that sucks about your gun
 
Hey FastCougar, thanks for coming forward and posting about your KB. They happen, and it is a good wake up call for guys like me(I'm pretty new) to pay close attention to what we are doing.

Glad no one was seriously hurt. :)
 
^
True. This is an excellent and well put forth learning lesson for us all. Thank you, FastCouger. We all learn from each other.
 
Did he ever pull the loose bullets to see what their diameter was? That's the source of the setback problem.
 
I pulled 3 of the 5 apart and they came apart with 2-3 blows of the hammer ... the dummy I produced wouldn't slip the bullet and took 8-9 blows ... same bullets (Ranier 165gr hp double struct plated) ... I'll head down now and measure.
 
Certaindeaf- thanks for taking the high road.

I just wanted to make sure the KB did not occur due to an obstructed barrel. I've been following this thread and may have missed that post, I am only trying to help.

If the case was too long or the crimp too severe, he may have caused the brass to get trapped between the barrel and the bullet causing severe overpressure.

Then again, he may have been distracted when showing his son the reloading procedure and accidentally double charged or over charged a case. Whenever I have an interruption in my loading, I start all over again as if I just started a loading session. I check everything and run several cases one station at a time and measure/weigh everything.

I also hear of many many kabooms due to Tightgroup because a double charge does not spill powder all over the bench. I understand the risks because I use Bullseye which also uses fairly small charges in some deep cases such as .357.

My guess it that a serious overpressure caused this because a simple blown belly would blast the bottom of the case out, blow out the magazine and not split the barrel.

I've read of people shooting normal charges out of split cases and in the case of a fully supported chamber, nothing happens. Firing out of battery and case head separation (not this particular situation) tends to blow the unsupported part of the case and not split the barrel.
 
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