Had to draw my weapon for the first time.

[Kleanbore]

From conwict:

I want you to know that this isn't really so much about me putting you in your place, or anything like that, as it is about keeping the dialog here fact-based and real so that no one is harmed by any misinformation. And that's a big part of the second amendment agenda for me, so I am being rather vehement about this but it's nothing personal.

PRECISELY!

When I took the state-required CCW class last summer, I learned a great deal about what a citizen can do and what one cannot do under the law. Several hours of the eight hour class were devoted to the legal aspects of firearm usage. Beforehand, I had had no idea that I could not draw from concealment or point a gun unless and until a deadly force situation was upon me; I didn't know anything about when deadly force is permitted (imminent danger to life or serious injury only, A, O, J, P, castle law situations); about duty to retreat; prohibition of warning shots here; restrictions on detaining a suspect (citizen's arrest).

Without that knowledge I could have gotten into a great deal of trouble.

My posts on this and similar subjects are not put forth to be critical of anyone or to win an argument. That doesn't do anything for me. Rather, they are intended to inform on a very important subject, as conwict says, so that no one is harmed by any misinformation (or misconception). I have two objectives: (1) keeping our friends from inadvertently getting into very serious trouble from drawing at the wrong time or pointing or shooting inappropriately; and (2) trying to protect our Second Amendment rights by helping to promote responsible use of firearms.

 

[Old Guy]

Some good thoughts on this site!

First, leaving the door open absolutely flabbergasts me! Which every one has told you about, nuff said.

The instant he came out of your kitchen with shoes in hand, if in my house! my pucker factor would have gone +10.

Something I have seen work... SCREAM GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! Loud-Louder!
Jump up and down, spit dripping! People leave. The person I saw do this was a woman, shifting her Daughters Party elsewhere! It worked a treat.

 

[stevereno1]

Wow! another " I had to draw my weapon last night" thread. Post a link to a police report. I'd like to see that.

 

[SwearNoAllegiance]

Wow! another " I had to draw my weapon last night" thread. Post a link to a police report. I'd like to see that.

Go away.

 

[Armed N. Free]

I glad things turned out OK!

People are NOT basically good - their behavior is usually determined by what gets them what they want - either in the immediate or distant future. When they determine their previous "wants" have been superceeded by a desire to not be arrested or shot, budabing, we have good social behavior

My "social behavior adjusters" are; in the house - a Mossberg 500 "Rolling Thunder" 12GA (dowel removed - 6 shot - 00 buck) with a Sig Sauer STL- 900L LED spot/strobe/laser on the front rail and a Blackwater 15 round bandalero sling and a Beretta PX4 .40 (14 rounds of Federal 180 grain Hydra Shock) with iluminated sights and another Sig Sauer STL-900 under the nose on a rail.

Outside, my CCW is a Kimber .45 Ultra Carry II with the rosewood Crimson Trace grips. Only 7 shots, but I carry extra clips

Various electronics catalogs / sites sell these awesome little gizmoes for us musically distracted / heavy sleepers who don't hear "normal" noises. They are proximity alarms (most work on infra-red) and can be very loud to alert you of unwanted movement in your "zone". You can also set up battery backed-up closed circuit 24 hour monitoring cameras on all entrances with audio alert and hard-drive archival / on screen monitoring of all activity in the wide angle camera's range (even in low light).

If a perp still enters after the proximity alarm goes off, they get to hear the pump racking forward on the Mossberg (universally translated to "Oh S**t!) and if they get in view, they get a distracting storbe in the face and a red dot on the chest.

Finally, a "Borg" in the ear cell phone with voice activated 911 calling is the bomb for getting you in touch with the back-ups while keeping the guy with the wet pants in your sights.

 

[sturmgewehr667]

glad everyone is ok, i think they removed there shoes to be quieter as the snuck into your home. who knows what they had been smoking or what there intentions were, you handled it well

 

[arizonaguide]

Okay, I think this is what I have learned:

1.) The door may or may not have been unlocked. All I know (officer) was that "I'm pretty sure it should have been locked" (vaguely insinuating that it WAS). I don't know how they got that door open.

2.) Yes officer, when he came out of the kitchen I feared for my and my girlfriends lives, and told them to "get on the floor" to attempt to stop/control them...and called you.

3.) Honey, the officer's here, you can put down the weapon, and come out of the safe room now.

4.) They are your's to deal with now, officer, and thanks for the rapid response. I'm glad the dispatcher was able to relay the fact that I had a weapon, and give you a discription of me, so we didn't shoot each other by mistake. Glad I had a cellphone on me at all times, and in the bedroom. I did take their picture on my cellphone, after they were cuffed.

5.) I gave dispatch (verbally) the name/number of the "right appartment" they said, for you to verify. Oh yeah, can I get my handcuffs back from you at the station tomorrow (I'll need a business card)? They were very cooperative when I asked them to cuff each other. Probably is a wrong appartment, but you can never be too sure, can you officer?

Wow! another " I had to draw my weapon last night" thread. Post a link to a police report. I'd like to see that.

Hey Steverino, here's one of my favorites from the Phoenix area:
http://www.kfyi.com/cc-common/mlib/622/06/622_1214436034.pdf

 

[MP3Mogul]

Remember, people take their shoes off so they don't make tracks that are traceable when killing!

 

[Jbabbler]

After reading your story I kind of played it over in my head to see how that would have gone down in my home. One thing I came up with is that these two are probably extremely fortunate that you saw the girl first. I imagine that had you looked up and seen a guy standing there you may have fired on reflex. I know that a girl can shoot and kill you as quick as a man but statistically speaking, that's not usually the case nor the expectation.

 

[Kleanbore]

Wow! another " I had to draw my weapon last night" thread. Post a link to a police report. I'd like to see that.

OP did not call the police, realizes that he should have.

I have "drawn" handguns three times in forty years and prevented forced entry once, convinced a person who entered forcibly to leave once, and convinced another who had entered through an unlocked door and expressed his intention to kill me to leave--once.

In the first incident I did not call the police at the time, but I reported the incident after discovering property damage the next day.

In the second, I was in a Rocky Mountain cabin with no phone, far from "civilization", and was leaving the state the next day. Did not call.

In the third, I was dissuaded from calling the police by a family member.

I'm wiser now, I think, as is the OP.

The point is, not all incidents are reported. I believe that firearms are used in deterring crime much more often than is reported.

 

[yocan]

Hi yall, just hopped over from xdtalk same so hello.

When I wake up in the morning I click my neck each way once to make sure I'm awake, then I rack the slide on my ruger (bed gun, not bedside, but far corner from me, bed gun) I feel uncomfortable sleeping beside a loaded gun, rest of the day its locked with the hammer down.

They were just trying to pick up some quick money to buy drugs or beer, not a terrible threat, but if they had already stolen stuff and you were between them and the door, could be a problem.

You know what you need to know, now .40 with nasty pre-cut jacket hollowpoints or more dangerous for home defense. I like my AK personally. With soft lead tips won't go through my double brick walls.

 

[ny32182]

The story about entering the wrong apt could very easily be the truth; I've had it happen to me, to many friends of mine, and come within a hair of doing it myself... especially if its a college apt. Apartment buildings in the same complex often all look the same. People move frequently in apartment settings, and don't tell all their friends. People transpose numbers when looking for a place for the first time... it happens.

It could also easily have been made up. But either way, these folks don't sound like they were interested in killing someone.

Sounds to me like you handled it fine as could be expected, and probably in an adrenaline dump situation on top of that. Call the cops? If you want to, but what for? If they aren't around by the time the cops get there... well, I guess I don't really see what the report would be about. "Yes, sir, a guy 6', girl 5'4", walked in my apt. I asked what they were doing... said they had the wrong place, apologized profusely, and left".

I think the *KEY* lesson here is to keep the door locked. Having the door locked solves every unknown in this type of situation. If they are really at the wrong place, trying to get into mom's, and the door is locked, they will knock. They won't break in. If they break in, their intentions are clear.

I think you did well.

 

[regal]

Maybe its just me or maybe people are afraid to post publicly but if this had happened in my home they would have left in 2 body bags. You have to send a message or you become known as an easy target. Word on the street will now be "he has a gun but won't use it."

This sort of thing is going to become more common as the economy continues to fall. Anyone notice the increase in "had to draw" posts over the last month ?

 

[Arcticfox]

The wrong apt idea is plausible. I hate to say it, but on a few occasions, I was in deep thought while ascending the stairs to my aptment, and didn't go up enough flights. I couldnt figure out why my key didn't work, so I rattled the door knob hard. When I figured out I was on the wrong floor, I ran quickly up the next flight, as I expected lead to come thru the door!

 

[Kleanbore]

if this had happened in my home they would have left in 2 body bags.

I cannot understand why anyone would consider himself morally justified in gunning down two unarmed people who had entered through an unlocked door.

Morals aside, there would be in many states a reasonable probability of the shooter's being successfully prosecuted for murder.

You have to send a message or you become known as an easy target. Word on the street will now be "he has a gun but won't use it."

I don't buy that.

I think the more likely outcome would be that at least during the time required to examine and process evidence, "he doesn't have a gun."

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

or feeling justified would be inclined to tell folks, but then again the anonymity makes folk brave/stupid

 

[ColoradoBlackMoon]

I won't wear headphones or earphones over or in both ears while hiking, walking, running, driving, riding a bicycle, or guarding the castle because I want to have the benefit of all the hearing I have. I want to know what's coming before it gets here so I have more time to prepare. The only time I cover both ears is when I'm shooting.

Lately it has occurred to me that all of my household members should be trained and useful for home defense. If you get temporarily or permanently taken out, the rest of the family should be able to back you up. What would have happened to the sleeping gf if you had lost instead of defused this encounter? Good job, BTW, on not shooting them both. But you may still get the opportunity.

 

[dogngun]

Astrolite: I had to draw a weapon several years ago, and there were a lot of similarities - little time to think, just to react, and making a judgement call not to use it when it was apparent the BG was backing off.

I never notified the police either, and still am wondering if I should have. ( I was on the street, near my car.)
Since they were in your home, I think it's a good idea.

You will think about this incident for a long time to come, but be glad about 3 things- You had a weapon when you needed it, didn't have to use it, and you were there and aware of the threat.

The man could have removed his shoes to be less noisey while searching your place, and they could have found your girlfriend home alone.

Good luck in any future confrontations.
ADDED: Just read most of the thread. I live in PA where an occupant is legally justified in using force to repel home invaders.
Make a nightly "patrol" to check doors and any accessable windows around dusk, or when everyone is home, just to make sure they are all locked.
You might want a larger gun as well (I'm another Mossberg 500 fan).
FWIW, in many states entering a dwelling at night is a more serious crime than it is if it occurred in daylight, the presumption being that it's more likely someone is home and the BG's don't care or are looking for someone to do evil on.
I see nothing wrong opn your part, and hope sincerely you don't have to do this again.

Oh, yeah - I have been around guns since I was young, too - and I'm 61 now.
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