Handgun Carry in the Old West

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> wagon or stagecoach the driver is sitting on the left hand side<

When I went through Wisconsin it looked to me like automobile drivers are still sitting on the left. I would say that favors a cross draw, with the gun on the left. You grab it with the gear shift hand.
 
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The movie, Wild Wild West, with Will Smith, it's never been a favorite of mine, but was on TV the other day. In the 1st 10-15 minutes of the movie, they show Will Smith riding to the train station in a hurry. Left hand holding the reins, right hand holding the western movie style gun and rig against his leg as it was obviously flopping around like a son of a gun while riding. The movie is so full of other hollywood blunders it's , well I'm not going there. BUT.. you can tell by that scene that most real cowboys would have nothing to do with such a rig. (don't side track it on that movie, plenty to pick apart) I'm just commenting on such a poor riding set up.
 
Heck, those tied-down guns in the "Reel West" are often down on the wearer's thigh! They'd be purt near horizontal when in the saddle, wouldn't they? Seems like a good way to lose a valuable handgun.

All my best,
Dirty Bob
 
Which is, of course, why nothing like those rigs actually existed on the frontier.

Those tied down, metal-lined, thigh holsters were invented for the silver screen. Everything about them is optimized for movie or sport fast draw, and they're no more practical for everyday wear than the race gun holsters IPSC shooters use. As you've observed, the thigh mounted position, which works great for fast draw while standing, is pretty lousy when you're sitting or in the saddle. The metal lining, which was meant to reduce your time to clear leather and get the shot off by allowing you to cock the gun while it's still in the holster, is fine while shooting theatrical blanks. With live ammo, it's a great recipe for putting a bullet into your own leg or foot. And what always killed me about those rigs, is that they were only fast draw after you removed the retaining loop from the hammer; they'd actually be pretty slow to draw from as long as that loop was over the hammer to keep the gun from falling out. Which means you can only be really fast if you're expecting trouble and have time to remove the loop -- you can't walk around with it off, because you're gun will fall out sooner or later, especially riding a horse. But in the real West, they didn't call each other out into the street. Then as now, trouble came suddenly and often unexpectedly.

The real frontier era holsters were softer, not metal lined, and often swallowed all of the gun but the last two or three inches of grip. Keeping the gun secure was the main thing for most people. And in town, people often didn't use a holster at all -- Wyatt Earp, at the OK Corral fight, for example, had his gun in his coat pocket before the shooting started.
 
Fast Draw rigs

Billy Shears:> The metal lining, which was meant to reduce your time to clear leather and get the shot off by allowing you to cock the gun while it's still in the holster, is fine while shooting theatrical blanks. With live ammo, it's a great recipe for putting a bullet into your own leg or foot. <

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That was why Andy Anderson came up with that fast draw rig first used by Steve McQueen in the Magnificent Seven and later by Eastwood. The Holster needed no tie down and always pointed forward away from your feet in case it went off. The walk & draw holster allows one to have the correct shooting grip, with wrist locked straight, from contact with the handgun to line up on the target. I love the way everybody else has costumes from the wardrobe department, and Steve stands out with his own Stetson and a 1960s fast draw rig in "The Seven."
 
Tom Threepersons


Tom designed a holster that exposed all of the trigger guard, hammer, and grip frame of a Colt Single Action Army. The design features no excess leather whatsoever. Before Threepersons arrived on the sixgun leather scene, most holsters were of the Mexican style with a wide back flap. Threepersons removed the back flap and replaced it by a piece of trim leather that is folded over and sewn to the back to the holster to provide the belt loop. The front of the trigger guard rides on a heavy leather welt along the back of the holster. The holster rode high and tight on the belt with a rearward muzzle cant and the grip frame, hammer and trigger placed above the belt where nothing could interfere with quick gun handling. He packed a nickel-plated Colt Single Action .45 with pearl grips bearing the Colt factory medallion and a carved steer head. I offer for your consideration these pictures of Threepersons rigs for your comparison to John Wayne's rig in the next post.

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John Wayne Bianchi holster

Shown for your consideration is the actual Bianchi prop Holster owned by Stembridge Gun Rental Inc., worn by John Wayne in Eighteen Movies.

The holster is stamped on the bottom with the Seven Pointed Star, BIANCHI, #1880, "CHEYENNE" TM, RUGER .357/.44 The holster has the Stembridge Ink stamp: STEMBRIDGE Gun Rental Inc. 431 Magnolia Ave. Glendale CA. 91204. A Rifle and 1927 Tommy Gun are crossed and entwined in the stamp. This stamp is very readable and imprinted on the inside of the flap under the holster.

The Belt is Soft leather money belt sewed closed. With leather belt Billets and is stamped EXTRA LARGE 42-44. SGR inscribed in block letters with a pen. The Buckle is the old clipped Bianchi marked buckle in raised letters. The Picture is a copy marked on location "True Grit" in Colorado Dec 4 1968 John has the rig on in this picture.

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John Wayne commemorative holster

Do you see any difference in the authorized John Wayne Commemorative versions?

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John Bianchi​

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Two belts​

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Wayne Enterprises and DeSantis Gunhide® commemorating the 100th anniversary​

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John Bianchi Model 100 Made from 2.75" wide, straight cut, rough-out, mellow tanned cream colored cowhide, folded and saddle stitched with 30 cartridge loops.

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Hondo ~ Jim Lockwood​
 
John Wayne's hallmark holster


John Wayne’s did not use the Hollywood fast draw style of cowboy leather, instead he spent most of his career after the mid-1940s wearing a comfortable soft belt with a high riding holster.

Over the years, a number of top holster makers crafted versions of John Wayne's famous rig for him, including Andy Anderson, Alfonso's of Hollywood, and John Bianchi. The late Bob Brown also claimed to have made a rig for The Duke.

Wayne's hallmark rig seems to have first appeared in the movie Hondo, made in 1953. Do you see any difference in his personal rig compared to the commemorative versions?

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John Wayne​

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John Bianchi​

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John Bianchi​

The well-worn rig furnished with the Duke's Colt came with a number of original 5-in-1 blank cartridges in its 36 cartridge loops. A single .45-70 Gov't cartridge seen in most of Wayne's later Western movies remained in loop number 22. Exactly who made the rig in question is not known. It is a hollow money belt, and the holster is lined. The rig is obviously hand-made, but no maker's mark could be found. After seeing detailed photos, holster maker Jim Lockwood of Legends in Leather believed it could have been made by the late Andy Anderson. Eddy Janis of Peacemaker Specialists agreed. However, Anderson's partner, Victor Perez, reports that the first rig Anderson made for Wayne was in 1969. In addition to this one, John Wayne also wore a number of other similar rigs in various films over the years.
 
Another thing is those rigs worn halfway down the wearers fanny weren't used either. I've worn a gunbelt for a lot of my adult life & they are worn up around your waist.

If a person wears it down low like those seen on the TV & movie screen, it'll bind your hips & make them sore & uncomfortable walking in about 40 steps. You will spend a lot of time tugging them back up around your waist. They should be worn snugly enough that they don't creep down your thigh. Then they will stay in place & your gun won't be where you don't expect it if you need it in a hurry!

Bill Jordan has an exellent treatsie on how to wear a gunbelt in his classic book, No Second Place Winner.

They will also be in the way horseback. Even the way John Wayne wore his it lower than would be comfortable if you were actually doing something all day.
Thanks
Frank
 
He may not be wearing the right belt, and it may not be "Handgun Carry in the Old West" but, it's cool to read/see the stuff on John Wayne's rig.
 
He may not be wearing the right belt, and it may not be "Handgun Carry in the Old West" but, it's cool to read/see the stuff on John Wayne's rig.

Actually, the belt Wayne wore in many of his movies and illustrated above is accurate, and duplicates cartridge belts used during the 1880's, 1890's and early 1900's.

The holster is also close to late western frontier styles, and differs only in that few of the original ones were leather lined.

Close examination of his movies will also show that the belt and holster were hitched up when he was on horseback, and slightly lowered when he was shown standing or walking. His belt, holster and mode of carry came much closer to the real thing then what was usually seen during the 1950's and 60's.
 
Interesting but not surprising is the fact that all of the primers in the cartridges in the belt in the one picture have been fired.
 
Well the belt and cartridges are movie props after all, and we don't want to lose any actors.

But maybe on the other hand... :evil:
 
So....after reading this thread the CAS need to rename themselves TVCAS

There is some truth to that, but they have so much fun it should be illegal.... :D

And they have created one of the fastest shooting games around, while they're spending has (and is) giving the industry a big lift. :cool:
 
I carry an SAA quite a bit, on foot and on horseback. I make my own holster, and make them so the trigger guard is completely covered and only the tip of the hammer projects above the leather. A well-fitted holster like that needs no safety straps or thongs, even if you get pitched off a horse.
 
I carry an SAA quite a bit, on foot and on horseback. I make my own holster, and make them so the trigger guard is completely covered and only the tip of the hammer projects above the leather. A well-fitted holster like that needs no safety straps or thongs, even if you get pitched off a horse.

Which is part of the reason that 19th century holsters were made the way they were. Security, and protecting a revolver from the elements were considered much more important than making a fast draw.

Tom Threepersons on the other hand was concerned about getting his six-shooter out and going in the shortest possible time. This is quite understandable coming from a peace officer in El Paso during the 1930's when shooting incidents (not necessarily movie gunfights) were common. The revolver was retained by a very tight fit, sometimes combined with a thong or safety strap.

Hollywood was (and is) only interested in promoting the illusion of quick-draw shooting that is dependent on belts, holsters and revolver modifications that were never seen or used in the frontier west.
 
I don't believe I said the Wayne rig wasn't practical. I've worn a similar one made by Rick Bachman a lot. The money belt is comfortable, it contours to your body & doesn't twist around once in place. Worn snugly, but not tightly, around your waist it is practical. A lot of real cowboys carried crossdraw to facilitate roping off horseback & not getting your gun tangled up in your rope.;)
Frank
 
Threepersons also was not riding up and down hills, in thick brush and so on -- his design was more suited to a man about town.

He did both. During the Prohibition Era he worked at various times as a El Paso City Police Officer, Revenue Agent, Border Patrolman and Deputy Sheriff. Thus he might be found in both urban and rural settings. His holster design became popular with some Texas Rangers who still carried revolvers, and they could be found in any place in Texas.

He was also reputed to sometimes carry a large-bore double action revolver in a shoulder holster that he would whip out at shoulder-point level while turning the gun from horizontal to vertical and fire as it came up.
 
Straight or curved gunbelts...

Frank V:> The money belt is comfortable, it contours to your body & doesn't twist around once in place. Worn snugly, but not tightly, around your waist it is practical. <

How do the straight belts compare to curved gunfighter belts, are they worth the premium price?

Vern Humphrey:> Threepersons also was not riding up and down hills, in thick brush and so on -- his design was more suited to a man about town.

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Old Fuff:> He did both .. he might be found in both urban and rural settings.

Threepersons design was for driving car a car, not bouncing around on a horse. That is why the FBI adopted his rear leaning muzzel which we also see on the Hondo rig, because of its ease of use in an automobile. The muzzle leaning foreword for reasons already mention as used on the McQueen quick draw rig was primarily for cowboys a foot.
 
Threepersons design was for driving car a car, not bouncing around on a horse. That is why the FBI adopted his rear leaning muzzel which we also see on the Hondo rig, because of its ease of use in an automobile.

Maybe, but I don't think so. Return to post #256 and the upper illustration, which is a page taken from a pre-World War Two, S.D. Myers catalog. The holsters shown are for 5 1/2 Colt Single Actions, and worn in an automobile would not be especially confortable. During that era cross-draw or shoulder holsters were more favored for carrying in an automobile.

The lower picture is also taken from a Myers catalog, but decades later in the 1950's or 60's and the design has been altered a bit to work with Colt or Smith & Wesson double-action revolvers with 4 inch barrels, although they could be ordered for shorter or longer lengths. These would lift a 4" revolver high enough to be practical in a car, and represent what was popular with the FBI and many others during that time.

Returning to the original Threeperson holster as it was conceived in the S.D. Myers shop, the same pattern was duplicated in most respects by the George Lawerence Co. of Portland. OR. and much favored by Elmer Keith, who was without question a "horseback cowboy," who recommended it over all others.
 
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