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jell-dog
Member.
wlkjr,
Thank you for your kind words!
I am seriously looking at the G42, and the Browning 1911-380 has cought my eye also.
I'll decide when I can hold a Browning in my hand
Handloading 380auto for Accuracy
- Thread starter jell-dog
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wlkjr,
Thank you for your kind words!
I am seriously looking at the G42, and the Browning 1911-380 has cought my eye also.
I'll decide when I can hold a Browning in my hand
Artofgolf
Member
...the G42, and the Browning 1911-380 has cought my eye also.
I'll decide when I can hold a Browning in my hand
Although the G-42 is a fantastic pocket-pistol, I'm leaning in that direction also
(My wife & daughter have) the G42; great size for them
Just a little too small for me.....
Artofgolf
Member
Yes, we do!
Last Thursday, jell-dog asked the following: BTW do you have a Berry's 100gr HBRN to compare to one of your Berry's 100gr HBFP?
Fortunately, I do! View attachment 207149 (click on image to expand)
Berry's HBFP: length 0.451"
Berry's HBRN: length 0.467"
Xtreme RNFP: length 0.431"
Sierra developed a FMJ-FP for 380 Auto long ago. You can view it here if interested: https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/8105/355-dia-9mm--95-gr-FMJ
It has a striking resemblance to the HBFP's we're testing from Berry's, although the Berry's is 5gr heavier
(and has a HB).
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jell-dog
Member.
All you have is HP-38?
Jim,
I'm sure you know HP-38 is the same powder as W 231.
The "LYMAN LOAD DATA Complete Reloading Data for: Auto Pistol Calibers" booklet lists W231 @ Start 2.6gr to Max 2.9 0.960 COL.
W 231/HP-38 is a great performing powder in 380auto!
Quite a few 380 loaders are liking the BERRY'S 100gr HBRN.
How about THR members chiming in with their favorite 380auto bullets?
Jim,
I'm sure you know HP-38 is the same powder as W 231.
The "LYMAN LOAD DATA Complete Reloading Data for: Auto Pistol Calibers" booklet lists W231 @ Start 2.6gr to Max 2.9 0.960 COL.
W 231/HP-38 is a great performing powder in 380auto!
Quite a few 380 loaders are liking the BERRY'S 100gr HBRN.
How about THR members chiming in with their favorite 380auto bullets?
Since when? How old is your powder? Were these powders always the same?
ASSUME nothing.
PS
Well I called Hodgdon, they said "W-231 and HP-38 have been the same for 40 years"
I thought this was a change that occurred when Hodgdon took over Winchester powder.
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jell-dog
Member.
Silhouette same as WAP?
CAUTION: The following threads/posts include posts of published and non-published loading data testing 380auto and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet/other gun related forums and powder manufacturers. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Read through this, posts#2 & #4 & last paragraph post#7 are interesting, there is also good discussion on 9mm & 45ACP:
http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/old-school-winchester-action-pistol.248878/
Then read this, post#9 is interesting:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514342
From Western Powders Load Data Guide Edition 5.0
380auto data
100gr BERRY'S HBRN
Silhouette Start 3.7gr (791 fps) Max 4.4gr (960 fps) COL 0.960"
100gr Raineir RN
Silhouette Start 3.7gr (818 fps) Max 4.4gr (973 fps) COL 0.960"
There ya go, POSSIBLE PUBLISHED load data for WAP/Silhouette.
If they are the same, 380auto reloaders who want to try Silhouette, but don't have it, but happen to have a jug of WAP, will be able to work up loads using PUBLISHED DATA from RAMSHOT Silhouette.
AND we can make a contribution to the POWDER INTERCHANGE NAMES thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771342
I have sent an e-mail to Ramshot requesting information about the similarity of WAP/Silhouette and if you can use Silhouette Load Data for WAP.
JD
CAUTION: The following threads/posts include posts of published and non-published loading data testing 380auto and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet/other gun related forums and powder manufacturers. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
Read through this, posts#2 & #4 & last paragraph post#7 are interesting, there is also good discussion on 9mm & 45ACP:
http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/old-school-winchester-action-pistol.248878/
Then read this, post#9 is interesting:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514342
From Western Powders Load Data Guide Edition 5.0
380auto data
100gr BERRY'S HBRN
Silhouette Start 3.7gr (791 fps) Max 4.4gr (960 fps) COL 0.960"
100gr Raineir RN
Silhouette Start 3.7gr (818 fps) Max 4.4gr (973 fps) COL 0.960"
There ya go, POSSIBLE PUBLISHED load data for WAP/Silhouette.
If they are the same, 380auto reloaders who want to try Silhouette, but don't have it, but happen to have a jug of WAP, will be able to work up loads using PUBLISHED DATA from RAMSHOT Silhouette.
AND we can make a contribution to the POWDER INTERCHANGE NAMES thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771342
I have sent an e-mail to Ramshot requesting information about the similarity of WAP/Silhouette and if you can use Silhouette Load Data for WAP.
JD
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Jell-Dog
I have some MBC coated 95 gr .356s on the way.
380 - Hi-Tek
.356 Diameter
.380
95 Grain RN
Brinell 18
For Secret Agents
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Just thought I would try the light bullets in 9mm just for the heck of it.
Not expecting anything special there just thought it would be interesting.
Anyway if you would like some to test let me know and I will be happy to send you some.
Still have your address.
D
I have some MBC coated 95 gr .356s on the way.
380 - Hi-Tek
.356 Diameter
.380
95 Grain RN
Brinell 18
For Secret Agents
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating
Just thought I would try the light bullets in 9mm just for the heck of it.
Not expecting anything special there just thought it would be interesting.
Anyway if you would like some to test let me know and I will be happy to send you some.
Still have your address.
D
Artofgolf
Member
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jell-dog
Member.
Dudedog,
Thank you for your offer!
You beat me to ordering them!:banghead:
Yes, I will take you up on that, I don't need a whole bunch, send what you can spare, I'll send you a list of what I have on hand to trade.
(Secret agent dogs gotta watch each other's bullet stashs
)Computer acting up again. not sure when next bullet/powder test post will be made
JD
Well I have almost concluded my thoughts regarding WSF for 380acp with 100gr Extreme plated FP in a Bersa 83a.
The pressure window is too small, I can make it work at the high end at 60 deg. F but where will these loads be at 70-80 deg. F ???
The Bersa is a straight blow back, if I had a locked breech semi auto like a G-42 I would be more inclined to give WSF another look.
I will agree with those that recommended against using WSF for the 380acp it is to slow for the 380acp pressure environment.
I just had to try
Those flyers coincide with my chronogragh readings. at 3.9gr it all gets better but whats the pressure? and what will it be 20 degrees from now?
The pressure window is too small, I can make it work at the high end at 60 deg. F but where will these loads be at 70-80 deg. F ???
The Bersa is a straight blow back, if I had a locked breech semi auto like a G-42 I would be more inclined to give WSF another look.
I will agree with those that recommended against using WSF for the 380acp it is to slow for the 380acp pressure environment.
I just had to try
Those flyers coincide with my chronogragh readings. at 3.9gr it all gets better but whats the pressure? and what will it be 20 degrees from now?
I shot some more of the Rem 88s with 7.0 Grs of Silhouette (Into +P territory) and got an avg 1476 from a 5" S&W 1911 with a Bar Sto barrel and 1366 from a stock 4.5" XDm.
I will be trying the Sierra 90 Gr JHP soon.
Are you going to try some of them in .380 first?
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jell-dog
Member.
If you're asking jell-dog, 380auto first then 9mm, not tired of 380auto yet
If you're asking Dudedog, I don't know
JD
Artofgolf
Member
Spicy, indeed
Good to see you chiming in on this thread. Any recent 380 ACP tests of your own?
Artofgolf
Member
I don't have a .380, remember? ....
Senior moment - didn't remember that there were no .380's in your arsenal
I'm encouraged that the W-231 has yielded acceptable results for you in prior testing.
I'm itchin' for some Zip & True Blue to surface in my area.
Tinkering with VV N-330 in the interim.....Do you think N-310 could work ??
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Dudedog
Contributing Member
No .380 to try them in.
In CA the Kahr and the Sig 238 (#?) are the only small .380s on the list.
sigh...
Maybe if I am lucky and the suit against the CA list succedes I will have a better choice and can get a small one.
Nothing against those two just not my cup of tea, and pricey at least IMO for a .380.
For me I don't see any reason to by a larger one, I have a MAK and XD subcompact.
The XD will work with pretty light 9mm if I want it to.
I have an
plan, send jell-dog bullets and let him do the work ups for me in case I buy a .380 sometime in the future.
(and of course I know different guns like different things, 2 of my 9mms each have thier own favorite, so I try to find one that works really well in the one I shoot the most and the other is not unhappy with)
100 on the way as soon as I get them.
In CA the Kahr and the Sig 238 (#?) are the only small .380s on the list.
sigh...
Maybe if I am lucky and the suit against the CA list succedes I will have a better choice and can get a small one.
Nothing against those two just not my cup of tea, and pricey at least IMO for a .380.
For me I don't see any reason to by a larger one, I have a MAK and XD subcompact.
The XD will work with pretty light 9mm if I want it to.
I have an
plan, send jell-dog bullets and let him do the work ups for me in case I buy a .380 sometime in the future.(and of course I know different guns like different things, 2 of my 9mms each have thier own favorite, so I try to find one that works really well in the one I shoot the most and the other is not unhappy with)
100 on the way as soon as I get them.
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mstreddy
Member
Art,
I won't be able to load the 380s for the next round of testing until this weekend and test next week. What I'm planning -- Win231 with the Berrys 100 Gr HBRN, the Xtreme 100 FN and depending on how the Berry's work out, I'll load the Berry's HBFN you sent me. Since I know 2.9 grs of W231 was a little light for the Rat, I'll load some at 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2. Let's see what works.
I won't be able to load the 380s for the next round of testing until this weekend and test next week. What I'm planning -- Win231 with the Berrys 100 Gr HBRN, the Xtreme 100 FN and depending on how the Berry's work out, I'll load the Berry's HBFN you sent me. Since I know 2.9 grs of W231 was a little light for the Rat, I'll load some at 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2. Let's see what works.
My bet is on 3.1 for the Xtreme.
Artofgolf
Member
We're in no hurry, MstrEddy
I'm curious to see the W-231 work-up for the G-42, but no need to rush.My bet is on 3.1 for the Xtreme.
Yup, I'm lookin' @ those also, wlkjr
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jell-dog
Member.
Ramshot e-mailed me an answer:
jell-dog said:
So, direct from Ramshot Powders Technical staff, You can use the starting load data from Silhouette with the WAP.
One more powder to consider for your reloading
JD
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jell-dog
Member.
Silhouette and WAP
Walkalong,
I don't know "if the starting load with Silhouette is the max with WAP".
I copied & pasted his complete answer, only changing my name and e-mail address.
I don't take anything on the Internet as absolute truth, and POST #4 here: http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/old-school-winchester-action-pistol.248878/
is where I started wondering about the similarities between Silhouette and WAP, I then contacted Ramshot with my question.
POST #4 Reads:
I was looking to see if those with WAP could use Silhouette load data, giving reloaders another Powder Interchange Name for reloading.
You or anybody else wanting to use this information, for safety reasons, need to do "due diligence" and contact Ramshot Customer Service at: [[email protected]] Attn Don W., CSR Western Powders Or call Don W., CSR Western Powders (406)-234-0422 with your specific caliber + bullet + WAP combination, that you are working up, also asking for START/MAX data, for clarification.
Again, here is the information I received from Don W., CSR Western Powders:
"Don W., CSR Western Powders Wed 1/28/2015 2:19 PM
You can use the starting load data from Silhouette with the WAP.
(I added the bold to highlight the answer JD)
Western Powders Inc. disclaims all possible liability for damages including, actual, incidental and consequential, resulting from usage of the information or advice contained in this message.
Use the data and advice at your own risk, and with extreme caution.
(the above and the words IMPORTANT NOTE below, were bold on the original e-mail)
IMPORTANT NOTE:Always begin loading from the minimum "START charge and carefully develop loads by increasing in small increments of 2% towards the Maximum load.
I won't make the mistake of suggesting one powder can be used with load data of another powder on this forum again, even if I have contacted the powder manufacturer directly and received an answer.
JD
Walkalong,
I don't know "if the starting load with Silhouette is the max with WAP".
I copied & pasted his complete answer, only changing my name and e-mail address.
I don't take anything on the Internet as absolute truth, and POST #4 here: http://www.xdtalk.com/threads/old-school-winchester-action-pistol.248878/
is where I started wondering about the similarities between Silhouette and WAP, I then contacted Ramshot with my question.
POST #4 Reads:
57K POST #4 Dec 22 said:When Ramshot introduced Silhouette their first ballistician said it was exactly the same as WAP. Ramshot even used the former Winchester WAP data for quite some time until they generated their own data later by Johan Loubser whom Western Powder Co. acquired when they bought Accurate Powder Co.
IMO, there's not a better powder for defense loads in 9mm and probably .40 S&W but I only use 124 gr. JHPs in 9mm. Ramshot lists some nice .38 Sp. +P loads and there are probably better powders for standard pressure .38 Sp. Target loads. In .45 ACP, I use 7.5 grs. of Silhouette with the 230 gr. ZERO JHP that is very accurate at 839 FPS from my 4.5" SR45. I'll be testing 7.6 grs. next time out to see if it gets over 850 FPS without overdriving the bullet which I've done at 7.8 grs. that averaged 917 FPS for 10 shots. The ZERO has a good core, but at 917 FPS it loses its jacket in my water jug tests.
With the 185 gr. Golden Saber, the current Ramshot ballistician disagrees with the former ballistician, Johan Loubser, as well as what I've observed. He claims higher velocity with less powder where that's never been the case, IME. I believe he has gone to testing with minimum dimension barrels for his pressure tests and when I asked about that, I never got a reply. For a 185 gr. XTP, Ramshot lists 9.9 grs. of Silhouette as the Max. Charge for 1152 FPS. Going back to older Accurate data provided to me by Johan Loubser, at the same charges, the 185 and 230 gr. Golden Sabers ran at least 50 FPS slower than the same weight XTP's with pressure lower by as much as 2000 PSI. For my own defense load, I worked up to 9.9 grs. of Silhouette with the 185 gr. Golden Saber. It chronographs 1087 FPS from my SR45 reconfirming Johan Loubsers data for AA#5 and #7 up to +P loads. The 9.9 gr. charge with the 185 gr. XTP @ 1152 FPS was tested to be below the 21,000 PSI limit for standard pressure .45 ACP. My 185 gr. Golden Saber load will penetrate deeper than a conventional 230 gr. JHP while expanding to over .750".
When I shot .40 S&W I made a lot of loads with Silhouette including cast lead. The only powder that I've found to be any more accurate is True Blue. I never really compared muzzle flash and WAP/Silhouette is excellent in that regard as it's treated to give very low flash. True Blue kinda comes by it naturally from being so fine grained and dense, IMO. For that reason I favor Silhouette for defense loads even in .45 ACP and few powders have more performance potential at the same pressure level.
I was looking to see if those with WAP could use Silhouette load data, giving reloaders another Powder Interchange Name for reloading.
You or anybody else wanting to use this information, for safety reasons, need to do "due diligence" and contact Ramshot Customer Service at: [[email protected]] Attn Don W., CSR Western Powders Or call Don W., CSR Western Powders (406)-234-0422 with your specific caliber + bullet + WAP combination, that you are working up, also asking for START/MAX data, for clarification.
Again, here is the information I received from Don W., CSR Western Powders:
"Don W., CSR Western Powders Wed 1/28/2015 2:19 PM
You can use the starting load data from Silhouette with the WAP.
(I added the bold to highlight the answer JD)
Western Powders Inc. disclaims all possible liability for damages including, actual, incidental and consequential, resulting from usage of the information or advice contained in this message.
Use the data and advice at your own risk, and with extreme caution.
(the above and the words IMPORTANT NOTE below, were bold on the original e-mail)
IMPORTANT NOTE:Always begin loading from the minimum "START charge and carefully develop loads by increasing in small increments of 2% towards the Maximum load.
I won't make the mistake of suggesting one powder can be used with load data of another powder on this forum again, even if I have contacted the powder manufacturer directly and received an answer.
JD
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jell-dog
Member.
DELEATED
Brain not engaged, tried to compare WSF to Silhouette.
DON'T DO THAT!!
Brain not engaged, tried to compare WSF to Silhouette.
DON'T DO THAT!!
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