Handloading for the Glock 42 - Part IV

[jell-dog]

Sig-P238 VS Glock 42

OK, so I packed up for the range last night, got my bag ready, mags, ammo, guns. One thing to test is the Glock 42 with more of the Promo 2.8 loads. I brought some other guns for the fun shooting portion and for a buddy's daughter to try.
So, a bit of a heavy range bag.
Get to the range, start setting up, pull out G17, Beretta 92, mags, Ruger GP100, ammo, Sig 238, 380 ammo, G42 -- wait, where is the Glock?
Not on this side of the bag, not on the other side, not here, nope, there either...
Guess what Did NOT make it into the bag?
Yep, the test subject.

mstreddy,
I see you shoot both the Sig P238 & Glock 42, so I have a question for you.
After reading all these threads on 380 autos, I have the itch to bring one home.
All testers have mentioned having to use a "snappier" load for the G42.
Is the felt recoil much "snappier" with a load that functions well in the G42 as opposed to a load that functions well in the P238?
My definition of "functions well" would be no FTF, FTE, stovepipes and good accuracy.
Thank you,
jell-dog
(PS wife wants to know)

 

[mstreddy]

Jell-Dog,
Yes, I have the Sig 238, G42, Beretta 84 and an LCP.
The Glock will digest hot loads and will NOT feel snappy at all, in my experience. Some of the hotter loads that are cycling the Glock are not really snappy in the Sig, but feel snappy in the Beretta. Not as bad as factory, but snappier than the fluff I was loading before.
I actually have to do the write-up from Wednesday's shoot. I shot the Sig (for you) with Win 231 and Promo. The G42 with Win 231 and Promo and the Beretta as well.
I'll add that the Glock now has over 300 rounds through it and it's handling the lighter loads better.
I am getting some good groups with all three guns, and at this time either powder/charge is yielding decent accuracy. I'll post the numbers when I upload the pictures later.

 

[jell-dog]

mstreddy,
Thanks for the clear report of the felt recoil from each pistol!
My wife shoots a Bersa Firestorm 380 and didn't like the factory load 100grain cartridges we have locally.
They are accurate but "snappy" to her.
She shot my 9mm Sig M11-A1, and now has all but taken it over!
Says if I could load ammo that felt like the Sig for her Bersa she would be a happy camper!
I ben workin' on it, close but no cigar.
By the way, are the sight pictures of the P238 & G42 combat (poa on poi) or target (poa under poi)?
Bersa needs sights aligned, then the front sight must cover center of target to hit center of target or you hit low.
I will now stop hijacking this thread
jell-dog

 

[mstreddy]

Jell,

It's not a hijack -- It is about G42s and other 380s.
And, now I remember, the Sig 238 was for Potatohead and the Bersa was for you. I forgot to mention that I also had my buddy bring his Bersa and I also put some rounds through it.
My loads were decent, just a little snap to them and were fairly accurate.

Eddy

 

[mstreddy]

OK, here are the pics and data on the loads tested.
As usual the test protocol, 7 yards, 5 shot strings, standing unsupported. The BC targets are 3".

All the Win231 loads are at 2.9gr, under Berry's RN at COAL .977"
All the Promo Loads are at 2.8gr, under Xtreme FN at COAL .955"
Groups are measured edge-to-edge on the farthest 2 points.

First up is the Glock 42
1 - Win231 1.39"



2 - Win231 1.5", if I ignore the flyer - four shots into .86"



3 - W231 - 1.5"


Beretta 84, W231 - 2.3" for 10 rounds (2 5-shot groups). I didn't pay attention to the individual groups.



Sig 238, W231 - 2.2" Not as good as I've done with this combination before.


And here is the crusty rat for the Wharf Rat.
I haven't taken individual pictures of the groups, but I can for detail if someone needs them.

I'll put the details of each group shortly.

 

[Artofgolf]

That Wharf Rat is well ventilated, MstrEddy
(safe to walk on the dock, now)
Good pix, too!

 

[mstreddy]

Art, Thanks, and that's with plain rounds -- imagine those Lehigh bullets!

One thing, it's a cool looking target but not the best for precision.
The groups - using the same rounds/data as stated in post #105, from the top Head - G42 with Promo - 2 5-shot groups at 2.1".
The neck Sig 238 with W231 - 2 5-shot groups at 1.69".
The Upper Back G42 with W231 - 1 5-shot group at 1.7".
The Lower Back G42 with Promo - 2 5-shot groups at 3".
The Hind quarter area G42 with W231 - 2 5-shot groups 1 at 1.8" and the other at 1.45".
The Cheese, Bersa Thunder with W231 - 2 5-shot groups at 2.4"

It was fun to shoot at this target, particularly with the Wharf Rat.

-- Eddy

 

[Artofgolf]

Art, Thanks, and that's with plain rounds -- imagine those Lehigh bullets! ........ particularly with the Wharf Rat. -- Eddy

Evil, wicked, mean & nasty - those bullets from Lehigh. Tried the 9mm Luger version on Friday.
They punched a square hole through the target - first time I've ever seen that
Performed well, but I think we can do a better job loadin' our own with those bullets

 

[Mad Chemist]

Re: Lehigh Bullets

I'm not sure if they are really necessary for 9x19 since that caliber rarely suffers from insufficient penetration with quality JHP. I do think they have a lot of potential for .380 where unde-penetration is always a concern with almost all of the JHP available.

 

[Artofgolf]

I'm not sure if they are really necessary for 9x19 ... have a lot of potential for .380 ....

Agreed Just wanted to try-out the new stuff.
I think this bullet profile has the potential (especially with the Wharf Rat) to make it a formidable SD option.

OK, Mad Chemist, have you cooked-up a recipe yet?

 

[Mad Chemist]

Beretta Pico Load Data

I did run some of those 90gr XTPs through a Beretta Pico with 3.4gr of VVN320.
It was stout enough to cycle the little beast reliably. I had to load them pretty short to feed in the mag. About .960-.965 IIRC. 3.2gr of N320 would not reliably cycle the gun every time. Accuracy with the 3.4gr load was very good at 50'.

The Pico seems to have break in characteristics similar to the G42. It will not cycle weak ammo reliably.

3.2 grains of N320 ran perfectly with the 100gr Xtreme FP. Going lower produced FTE.
3.0 gr of Bullseye runs great with this the 100gr Xtreme bullet too.
Titegroup was the only "light" load that functioned reliably at 2.8gr with the 100gr xtreme bullet.

I am going to standardize the both the Bullseye and Titegroup loads as practice loads for this pistol.

Nitro 100 would not work reliably within the load data range for either MBC 95gr LRN or Xtreme 100gr FP. It consistently produced FTE malfs with both bullet types all the way up to max published charge per Accurate Arms data. I am not comfortable exceeding max data with a powder this fast. I won't be using this powder for any further load development for the Pico.

Ramshot Competion was inconsistent at 2.6gr under the MBC lead boolits. It produced FTE consistently. After removing the inner recoil spring the loads continued to have intermittent FTE. Accuracy was also poor compared to the other loads. I may try bumping the charge up a bit and trying again. Or I may just test Bullseye with the MBC boolits.

I forgot to add. The Nitro100nf load and the Ramshot comp loads all worked fine in my LCP. Accuracy was sub par with the Competition load but function was fine in the LCP with all of these.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Re: Lehigh Defense Penetrators

It looks like they still aren't selling the bullets, loaded ammo only at this time. I don't see any .380 data on their site yet either.

It would be interesting to compare one of these side by side with a Barnes copper bullet. If we knew how closely the bearing surfaces compared we may be able to extrapolate starting data from the the limited published Barnes data that is already available. Once Lehigh publishes some data, it would be easier to broaden the powder selection.

Not that I would recommend or endorse such an acctivity

It could possibly be dangerous to one's health and due to the price of the bullets it would certainly be dangerous to one's wallet.

 

[Artofgolf]

It looks like they still aren't selling the bullets, loaded ammo only at this time.....

The only ones they are selling now is the 75g Controlled Fracturing version in 380 Auto & 9mm: (Courtesy- Lehigh Defense LLC)

.355cal /380 Auto - 9mm 75gr Controlled Fracturing Bullet SKU: 02355075SP Box of 50 $35.00 + $5.00 shipping

 

[Mad Chemist]

I'm not really interested in that one. The penetrator in .380 is the only one that really piques my interest. I think it solves a genuine problem with .380 ballistics.

The 9x19 ammo is out there in the land of diminishing returns, IMO.

 

[jell-dog]

The only ones they are selling now is the 75g Controlled Fracturing version in 380 Auto & 9mm: View attachment 205705 (Courtesy- Lehigh Defense LLC)
.355cal /380 Auto - 9mm 75gr Controlled Fracturing Bullet SKU: 02355075SP Box of 50 $35.00 + $5.00 shipping

^^^^^ a little pricy?
I hear a box of 20 loaded .380auto xtreme penitration ammo is $50 + shipping?
jell-dog

 

[mstreddy]

Art,

That is quite the mini grenade there...Talk about making an impact.

 

[Artofgolf]

Yeah, all their stuff is pricey
When you machine each bullet, I can see why costs skyrocket.

The question is: are they worth it?

 

[Artofgolf]

...The penetrator in .380 is the only one that really piques my interest.

Mad Chemist, I think you're on the right path ~ the XP would improve the overall SD capability of the 380 ACP round.

When available, maybe we could consider a volume bullet group buy to mitigate the total cost? Any interest guys?

 

[Artofgolf]

Some other choices in the copper machined bullet offerings:

The Raptor

They are on Cabela's website; they gave me a $20 coupon & free shipping, so I thought I'd try 'em (yeah, they reeled me in again....)

Manufactured by the Cutting Edge Bullet Co.

Cutting Edge Bullets (Copper) Raptor Handgun Bullets

Manufacture Number​

Caliber Dia. (in.) Wt. (grains) Bullet Type Bullet OAL (in.) Bearing Surface Sectional Density G1-BC Recommended Twist (in.) Quantity per Box

HGHP​

38075 380 .3547 - .3549 75 HG Raptor .458 .194 .085 n/a Standard 50

HGHP​

9MM90 9mm .3547 - .3549 90 HG Raptor .608 .213 .102 n/a Standard 50​

 

[jell-dog]

Add 1 to 2 rounds to your G-42 Warf Rat?

I came across this web site that offers a mag extension for the G-42 which gives your little finger a place on the grip while one option increases mag capacity from 6 to 7 rounds, a second opinion increasing capacity from 6 rounds to 8!
http://www.glockstore.com/glock-42-custom-parts/g42-magazine-extension
Anyone try one of these?
jell-dog

 

[mstreddy]

Updated test data

OK, over the holidays I got to the range with the G42 and some of the previous loads. I'm still working through the Promo 2.8s and the Win231 at 2.9. The Glock is getting better at digesting the moderate loads with fewer and fewer instances of stove pipes and FT-Ejects.
I've been slow about getting the images uploaded, but here goes.

As usual, my protocol is the 7 yards, offhand, 2 handed grip. 5 shot groups at each target. These were all using 2.8 grains of Promo (Red Dot).
These were shot on the first outing using the 3" targets. I was not as dialed in that day and was having trouble staying under 2" groups. I was also getting a flyer on every group.


2.8" and 1.7" excluding flyer


1.6" and 1" excluding flyer; my best group for the night


2.6" and 1.8" excluding flyer


2.8" and 1.6" excluding flyer

I'll add the other images later.

 

[wlkjr]

No offense but the flyer is probably you and not the ammo. I tend to have the same thing happen on almost every one of my targets, even shooting from a rest.

 

[mstreddy]

wlkjr, none taken -- I know the flyers were me. I just wasn't shooting to my usual that day. Maybe I should have not posted the results, but, I'm human, I didn't have a great day with the groups, but overall managed to keep it mostly together and that's OK.

The 1" with 1.6" is more like what that load should shoot as seen in the earlier posts.

 

[wlkjr]

Groups looked good to me.

 

[mstreddy]

The other test day

The second portion of the holiday shooting with the Glock 42 and the Promo 2.8 loads.
Same protocol as above. 7 yards, 2 hand grip, offhand. 5 shot groups.

This day I was in a bit tighter. This is more like it.


1.8"


Another 1.8"


1.64" - better


1.61" - I can do this...


1.74" And this group was shot by one of the range guys. So the little Glock can keep it tight if the shooter does their part.

Altogether, I am very satisfied with the Glock 42 and loading for it. Many thanks to ArtOfGolf for starting this series.

What's next? I will load some Bullseye or Unique next and I will also test some bullets that Jell-Dog sent me. I think the Promo loads are pretty good for the Glock and my other 380s. The Win 231 loads are great in the other pistols but is just shy of perfect in the Glock. I may bump it up a little and retest in the future.