Handloading 380auto for Accuracy

[mstreddy]

Jell-Dog, you are right -- THR is a wonderful exchange of information and knowledge. I've learned a lot from the many posters here.

 

[joneb]

Some SPEER brass has a ring or band to stop bullet setback

I was referring to the case thickness at the case mouth. With two bullets that measure .355 inserted with no crimp the R-P case at the mouth measures .370", the Speer case with a seated bullet measures .3722" at the case mouth.
These variations between head stamps effect case capacity and bullet retention which effects pressure which effects velocity which effects accuracy.
If you are loading to find the most accurate load i would sort the cases by head stamp and shoot with a rest.

 

[wlkjr]

Jell-Dog, you are right -- THR is a wonderful exchange of information and knowledge. I've learned a lot from the many posters here.

As have I.

 

[jell-dog]

I was referring to the case thickness at the case mouth. With two bullets that measure .355 inserted with no crimp the R-P case at the mouth measures .370", the Speer case with a seated bullet measures .3722" at the case mouth.

Your origional post referenced "[Speer case had] significant bulge from expander plug, the wall thickness was 0.0011" thicker than the R-P."

In the latest post you are talking about the difference in case diameter at the case mouth after seating a bullet in R-P vs Speer brass without a crimp.
Is this size differance JUST at the case mouth or for the full length of the seated part of the bullet?

Is the brass the same length?
As you know, expander plug would bell the longer case more, could this explain larger diameter "at case mouth"?

Would putting just enough taper crimp to remove the bell maybe remove this 0.0022" difference "at case mouth"?

Not sure, but if the point you are making is using the same headstamps for reloading reduces accuracy variables like volume of case, point made.

After all, it's well known R-P brass is thinner walled than almost all other brass, so Speer brass would measure a SLIGHTLY larger diameter than R-P after seating a bullet.

My point when answering your previous post was that a definite bulge in SOME Speer brass AFTER seating a bullet was caused by the thicker "ring or ledge or cannelure" used to control bullet setback, mostly found in their nickel plated brass and using 100gr and heavier (longer seated length) bullets.

This "ring or ledge or cannelure" can easily be seen inside SOME brass during inspection.
I discard this brass as some on the BE-86 thread have mentioned this has caused failure to go fully into battery because of bulge.

These variations between head stamps effect case capacity and bullet retention which effects pressure which effects velocity which effects accuracy.

I'm in total agreement with case capacity statement!
I have found (and read published data) that bullet retention has more to do with case prep, not over belling, how many times the brass has been fired among other things, than headstamps.

If you are loading to find the most accurate load i would sort the cases by head stamp and shoot with a rest.

Yes, to find the MOST accurate load you CAN sort to headstamp and use a rest.

I don't personally own a target grade 380auto pistol, so I set the standards of my tests to meet what the average shooter/reloader (of which I consider myself to be, average) expects for accuracy without sorting headstamps and using a rest.

And I am sure I could produce much smaller groups just by using a rest.

Also, I hope my use of the many powders I have onhand (friends donated four 1/2lb canisters to me as they are interested in the results) will show the possibilities of what may work for them with the powders they either have on hand or can get.

I am fortunate that some VERY experienced reloaders have posted their "go to" load data on this thread.

I hope to see load data developed by you that I can try

Respectfully,
jell-dog

 

[joneb]

Amen brother

 

[Artofgolf]

Jell-dog PM question

We Love little lazerz!!

Yes, we do!

Last Thursday, jell-dog asked the following: BTW do you have a Berry's 100gr HBRN to compare to one of your Berry's 100gr HBFP?

Fortunately, I do! (click on image to expand)

Berry's HBFP: length 0.451"
Berry's HBRN: length 0.467"
Xtreme RNFP: length 0.431"

This is why I think the 'PROTOTYPE' Berry's 100g HBFP could be helpful for the reloaders having OAL work-up/function issues.
(PLUS, they work great in the Wharf-Rat)

 

[jell-dog]

Contact Barry's Bullets to request 100gr HBFN bullets

Yes, we do!

Last Thursday, jell-dog asked the following: BTW do you have a Berry's 100gr HBRN to compare to one of your Berry's 100gr HBFP?

Fortunately, I do! View attachment 207149 (click on image to expand)

Berry's HBFP: length 0.451"
Berry's HBRN: length 0.467"
Xtreme RNFP: length 0.431"

This is why I think the 'PROTOTYPE' Berry's 100g HBFP could be helpful for the reloaders having OAL work-up/function issues.
(PLUS, the work great in the Wharf-Rat)

THR members,
If Berry's Bullets received enough interest in their 100gr 9mm caliber HBFP bullets (.356" diameter) which is the same .356" diameter of their 100gr 380 caliber HBRN would they reconsider dropping the 100gr HBFP from their inventory?

Here is link with more info and contact info:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9773340&postcount=140

Thank You for following this thread, new test results will be posted later today!

jell-dog

 

[jell-dog]

Power pistol testing

For those asking "where did you get your load data?":
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9769824&postcount=60

My results for POWERPISTOL powder:

Basic info: Here are the guidelines I will be using: 7 yards, standing, open sights, no pistol rest, target has 1/2" grid lines, 5 rounds at each powder weight.
I will be shooting a BERSA FIRESTORM 380 with 3 1/2" barrel for all range work, using the 2 bullets I have on hand:100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN & 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN.

My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" group or less.
My definition of Fair Accy is over 1.5" group up to 1.75" group.
My definition of Poor Accy is is over 1.75" group.
My definition of Flyers is shooter error, not holding steady on target, so I will give my opinions on accuracy based on best of 4 out of 5 shots where there are obvious Flyers outside the group.

Below Left: POWERPISTOL_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Start load, Mod. recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.5" W/Flyer, 2.0" WO/Flyer
Below Right: POWERPISTOL_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Start load, Mod. recoil, Poor Accy, Group 6.0" W/Flyer, 2.5" WO/Flyer


Below Left: POWERPISTOL_3.2gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.Snapy recoil, Good Accy, Group 1.25"
Below Right: POWERPISTOL_3.2gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Fair/Good Accy, Group 2.5" W/Flyer, 1.5" WO/Flyer


Below Left: POWERPISTOL_3.4gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, VERY Snappy recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.25" W/Flyer
Below Right: POWERPISTOL_3.4gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 4.5"


I have been experiencing less felt recoil with the Berry's 100gr HBRN than with the 100gr FRONTIER RN (which has a flat base) in my powder loads that approach MAX loads.

Anybody else getting a feeling of reduced felt recoil when using Berry's 100gr HBRN in 380auto or 9mm vs a 100gr RN with a flat base when approaching MAX loads??

My next post will be with HP-38 powder

 

[jell-dog]

More 380 stuff from internet

CAUTION: The following links include posts of non-published loading data testing this and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet or other gun realted forum threads. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

THR Forum: Which powder is the best for .380 - .45 ACP auto's?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=244925

For an easy way to find MAX Cartridge Length for your pistol use these to suggestions:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9669518&postcount=1206
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9764025&postcount=1215

The Firing Line Forums: 380 acp plinking loads

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396699

Happy trails to you.......

 

[joneb]

Well I tried loading for 380acp I'm using Extreme 100gr plated FP. I had to go with .917 for the COL I may go to .912, seems short but any longer and cartridge won't manually feed, The gun is a Bersa 83A.
I have not used WSF much and I could not find any data with it for 380acp, so I guessed I will try 3.6 and 3.7gr as 3.8gr may be a bit warm I don't want to go to low with this slow for 380acp powder.
This load shoots high? I was aiming for the center of target.

 

[Artofgolf]

.....I have not used WSF much and I could not find any data with it for 380acp, so I guessed ..... I don't want to go to low with this slow for 380acp powder.

I would strongly suggest that you find some published load data before moving ahead. Please be CAREFUL

 

[joneb]

I would strongly suggest that you find some published load data before moving ahead.

Well that's the issue, I can't find data for 380acp and WSF and with the bullet I'm using forgetaboutit. My guess was based on Autocomp data witha 100gr XTP. if I decrease the COL to .912 I will start at 3.4gr of WSF and work up.
Thanks.

 

[Artofgolf]

In all my manuals, there's no mention of WSF as a recommended choice for 380 Auto, although the second ed. Lee charts use Autocomp. Send Walkalong a PM; he knows about the Win. powders.

 

[mstreddy]

JoneB, I'd proceed very carefully with WSF in 380. I don't see it listed at all on the Hodgdon site for 380 at any weight. Extrapolating from other powders may not be the best way to go about it. Has it "ever" been listed for 380?
Mind you, I've used WST in 9MM though it's not currently listed, but it was listed in the past.

There are other powders that would be better suited for 380.
And your OAL seems rather short for those 100gr bullets.

 

[joneb]

There are other powders that would be better suited for 380.

I agree, but those powders I have not seen here for years.

And your OAL seems rather short for those 100gr bullets.

I agree, I determined the max COL for the chamber and decreased it by .005" increments until my three dummy rounds would manually cycle in the gun.

 

[jell-dog]

Max working col

I agree, but those powders I have not seen here for years.
I agree, I determined the max COL for the chamber and decreased it by .005" increments until my three dummy rounds would manually cycle in the gun.

joneb,
I sent a PM to you about finding WORKING MAX COL for your pistol B4 I got around to catching up on my THR message notices.
Obviously, you know how to do that.
I apologize if I overstepped my boundaries, and ment no disrespect.
May I ask what you determined the MAX COL for your barrel is?
jell-dog

 

[joneb]

May I ask what you determined the MAX COL for your barrel is?

.978" passes the plunk test with the 100gr Extreme plated FP, I don't know if it would pass the mag. test? I originally thought my COL would be around .955 to .965" I was confused by my COL of .917" anything longer would stove pipe in the barrel chamber. I will revisit this a may have missed something, the gun functions well with factory RN FMJ.

 

[Potatohead]

Had a chance to play with my Zip load in 380 this am. Pretty nice.

 

[jell-dog]

Had a chance to play with my Zip load in 380 this am. Pretty nice.

Ya, there's another powder that's been scarce for over 1 1/2 years around these parts.
Even nonexistent in Montana where their headquarters are.
The replied to a costumer request I sent a week ago saying their overseas manufacturers are now working up their full line of powder and as soon as there's enough to justify the expence of container shipping it will be on shelves again.
I hope so, even though I have enough powder for now

 

[Artofgolf]

Had a chance to play with my Zip load in 380 this am. Pretty nice.

I was thinkin ZIP would work well - lookin' forward to some pix with holes near the Bulls-eye, PH

 

[mstreddy]

JoneB,
@ .978, while it plunks it may or may not pass the mag test. Some have reported having to go below SAMMI Max in 380 to fit the mags.
What do you mean by anything over .917 stovepipes in the chamber? .955-.965 "should" work fine for those 100 gr FPs. I loaded the Berry's at .976 and the Xtremes at .955.

 

[mstreddy]

Tater -- where are the pics -- and of course we want to see if you can hit the bull.

 

[Walkalong]

I was thinkin ZIP would work well

I don't see way it wouldn't. It appears to be a close cousin to W-231, both in looks and perfromance.

Zip in .45 ACP - Starting load

 

[jell-dog]

Computer problems

Loyal followers of this thread, my computer system drive (C drive) is failing so I had to turn it over to my "computer guy".
I will not be able to post the results I have ready until Tuesday of next week as I no longer have access to the data.:banghead:

Technology is great when it works
Not so great when it doesn't

I have also worked up some new data using 100gr X-Treme RNFP and 100gr RMR thick plate RN with a few good powders.
Hope this raw data was not lost!

Until then, I will be monitoring THR from my "smart"
phone.

 

[jell-dog]

Great shootin'

Walkalong,
Great shooting!
Looks like you can find the bullseye!
Were you using PH's standards of 3 yards off a rest??
JUST KIDDING Walkalong
AND KIDDING PH