Handloading 380auto for Accuracy

[jell-dog]

Interesting thread from 2006

THR thread "Anyone load .380 ACP?" from 2006.

CAUTION: The following thread includes posts of non-published loading data tested this and other cartridges. These are posts by other THR members and contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=200847&highlight=TRIM+380+BRASS?

Enjoy!

 

[lauderdale]

Good read! for .380 re loaders that love to reload .380! took note on some cites and checked to see if they are still in operation. And "r"! Marked on faves. going to reread.

 

[ljnowell]

My results for AA#5 powder.

AA#5 load data Start 4.2gr to 5.1gr according to Accurate Powders Load data:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WP_LoadSpec_1-23-14.pdf



There is room to load and test at higher powder weights as I only went to 4.6gr and published MAX is 5.1gr for plated 100gr bullets in 380auto.



Basic info: Here are the guidelines I will be using: 7 yards, standing, open sights, no pistol rest, target has 1/2" grid lines, 5 rounds at each powder weight.

I will be shooting a BERSA FIRESTORM 380 with 3 1/2" barrel for all range work, using the 2 bullets I have on hand:100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN & 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN.

My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" or less

My definition of Fair Accy is 1.5" up to 1.75"

My definition of Poor Accy is greater than 1.75"





Below Left: AA#5_4.2gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Start load, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.5" W/Flyer, 2.5" WO/Flyer

Below Right: AA#5_4.2gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Start load, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.5" W/Flyer, 2.25" WO/Flyer







Below Left: 4.4gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.recoil, Fair/Good Accy, Group 1.75" W/Flyer, 0.75" WO/Flyer

Note: W/O flyer, this is an accurate load

Below Right: 4.4gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Good Accy, Group 2.25" W/Flyer, 0.75" WO/Flyer







Below Left: 4.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Sligthly Snappy recoil, Poor Accy, Group 2.25" W/Both Flyers

Below Right: 4.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Snapy recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.0"





Next time I will be sharing results with BULLSEYE powder.

I found my accuracy point at 4.3 but I was using 95 grain lead.

 

[jell-dog]

I found my accuracy point at 4.3 but I was using 95 grain lead.

Ijnowell,
In my search of "loading for 380auto" after I started testing the 100gr plated bullets I have on hand, I have found almost an even split between 90-95 gr and 100gr bullets being developed for accurate 380 loads. (On internet forums)
I haven't loaded lead bullets into 380 or 9mm yet, however, I have loaded plenty of 38/357 lead bullets, achieving acceptable accuracy.
My question: I have read your development of the AA#5 and 95 grain Hunters Supply lead hollow points:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=770640

How much bell do you put on the 380 brass to prevent shaving the bullets when seating?
I plan on purchasing some 95gr Hunter Supply bullets.
I also plan on supplying links to other threads here, from THR other forums as a balance to my testing.
I hope those following this thread will enjoy other viewpoints on 380 load development.
Thank you for your continued interest!
jell-dog

 

[wlkjr]

As for belling, I kept adjusting until it no longer shaved, which seems to be a bit more than for plated. The crimp station takes it out so no problem.
I am using a coated lead.

 

[ljnowell]

Ijnowell,

In my search of "loading for 380auto" after I started testing the 100gr plated bullets I have on hand, I have found almost an even split between 90-95 gr and 100gr bullets being developed for accurate 380 loads. (On internet forums)

I haven't loaded lead bullets into 380 or 9mm yet, however, I have loaded plenty of 38/357 lead bullets, achieving acceptable accuracy.

My question: I have read your development of the AA#5 and 95 grain Hunters Supply lead hollow points:



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=770640



How much bell do you put on the 380 brass to prevent shaving the bullets when seating?

I plan on purchasing some 95gr Hunter Supply bullets.

I also plan on supplying links to other threads here, from THR other forums as a balance to my testing.

I hope those following this thread will enjoy other viewpoints on 380 load development.

Thank you for your continued interest!

jell-dog

I would have to say that I flared the cases more than I would on my 45s or 40s. Two reasons for that. First, these rounds ultimately are going to end up in a pistol and being carried daily. I didn't want to be shaving lead or having any worries of getting bullets started straight and proper. Second, I have great big fingers and those are little bitty bullets. I found putting a little more flare helped to get them started straight with my big fingers.

I used a minimal amount of crimp, quite literally just straightening the case out as I usually do with my auto loader cartridges. Case tension wasn't an issue.

 

[jell-dog]

wlkjr & Ijnowell,
Thank you both for the information on belling 380 for lead bullets!
I'm sure others following this thread who have not yet loaded lead in 380, or 9mm for that matter, will find this tip very helpful!
jell-dog

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I bought a Sig P232 because I loved the balance and feel it had. When I took it out to shoot factory loads I was almost sick because it would not penetrate both sides of a 5 gallon plastic bucket when shot at about 20 yards with a 100 grain round nose cartridge. I was more concerned with penetration than accuracy and have loaded 95 grain Sierra round nose FMJ with 3.7 gr of Accurate #2 with much better results than the factory loads. I don't think a single ragged hole from 6 shots is as important as the ability to penetrate beyond the outer layers of clothing. 6 holes within a 6" circle would certainly stop most warm blooded mammals from advancing.........

 

[jell-dog]

More reloading data from the internet

CAUTION: The following thread includes posts of non-published loading data testing this and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet or other gun realted forums. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Handloads.com: 380 load data
http://handloads.com/loaddata/defau...P&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source

The Firing Line Forums: Reloading .380 auto
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508241

Enjoy

 

[mstreddy]

Potatohead you said:

I haven't come up with an accurate 380 load yet and Im starting to wonder if one exists.

Care to share what you have tried, what powders and bullets you have on hand? IIRC you are shooting a Sig 238?
And, another question - what do you define as an accurate load?
Have you tried some of the data that BDS, Art, Jell-Dog and I have posted?

 

[mstreddy]

Jell-Dog, I guess when you edited the 1st post your accuracy standard definition was cut out. I was wondering if I had imagined the whole thing, but I see you restated it in post 25.
My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" or less
My definition of Fair Accy is 1.5" up to 1.75"
My definition of Poor Accy is greater than 1.75"

I'm going to borrow it for my next round of workups. I just ordered some Berry's HBRN. Now, which powder - W231, Promo, or BE?

 

[jell-dog]

Jell-Dog, I guess when you edited the 1st post your accuracy standard definition was cut out. I was wondering if I had imagined the whole thing, but I see you restated it in post 25.
My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" or less
My definition of Fair Accy is 1.5" up to 1.75"
My definition of Poor Accy is greater than 1.75"

I'm going to borrow it for my next round of workups. I just ordered some Berry's HBRN. Now, which powder - W231, Promo, or BE?

mstreddy,
Actually my accuracy standard definition was supposed to be:
My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" group or less.
My definition of Fair Accy is over 1.5" group up to 1.75" group.
My definition of Poor Accy is is over 1.75" group.
My definition of Flyers is shooter error, not holding steady on target, so I will give my opinions on accuracy based on best of 4 out of 5 shots where there are obvious Flyers outside the group.
DO to a technical error :banghead: I missed the accuracy standard definition in first post, and now can no longer edit it
Oh well, future posts with my data and Photos will include my accuracy standard definitions

As to which of the powders you named, I don't have W231 or Promo, but do have HP-38:
HP-38_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Good Accy, Group 1.75" W/Flyer, 1.25" WO/Flyer

And BE-86:
BE-86_3.9gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Moderately Snappy recoil, Good Accy., Group 1.5"
This is a 5 round NO Flyers group.
Note: Felt recoil was not as snappy as the same 3.9gr BE-86 powder charge under a 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN bullet, we will use in wife's Bersa Firestorm

I will be posting the photos of these loads in the next week or so
jell-dog

 

[Potatohead]

Potatohead you said:
Care to share what you have tried, what powders and bullets you have on hand? IIRC you are shooting a Sig 238?
And, another question - what do you define as an accurate load?
Have you tried some of the data that BDS, Art, Jell-Dog and I have posted?

Let me get back with you when I can get to my log. Yes, p 238.

 

[mstreddy]

Jell-Dog,
Win231 is HP38. If you want a little softer load for the missus, try some at 2.9grs with those Berry's. That was the load that I settled on for my LCP, and worked great until the Glock came along.

 

[jell-dog]

Jell-Dog,
Win231 is HP38. If you want a little softer load for the missus, try some at 2.9grs with those Berry's. That was the load that I settled on for my LCP, and worked great until the Glock came along.

mstreddy,
Good timing on your ".......HP38....... try some at 2.9grs with those Berry's....."
I'm loading up ammo for our next range session, will try your suggestion.
Thanks
jell-dog

 

[jell-dog]

My results for BULLSEYE powder.

Basic info: Here are the guidelines I will be using: 7 yards, standing, open sights, no pistol rest, target has 1/2" grid lines, 5 rounds at each powder weight.
I will be shooting a BERSA FIRESTORM 380 with 3 1/2" barrel for all range work, using the 2 bullets I have on hand:100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN & 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN.

My definition of Good Accy is 1.5" group or less.
My definition of Fair Accy is over 1.5" group up to 1.75" group.
My definition of Poor Accy is is over 1.75" group.
My definition of Flyers is shooter error, not holding steady on target, so I will give my opinions on accuracy based on best of 4 out of 5 shots where there are obvious Flyers outside the group.

Published data for Bullseye powder from Alliant Powder Data Manual, 2004 Edition, Page 43, Pistol & Revolver Loads, for .380 auto using 100gr FMJ, Bullseye MAX load listed @ 3.3 grains.

Below Left: BULLSEYE_2.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, 0.1gr Over Start load, Mod. recoil, Poor/Fair Accy, Group 2.75" W/Flyer, 1.75" WO/Flyer
Below Right: BULLSEYE_2.6gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Start load, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 3.25"


Below Left: BULLSEYE_2.8gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.recoil, Good Accy, Group 2.25" W/Flyer, 1.5" WO/Flyer
Note: W/O flyer, this is an accurate load, as accurate as 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN under BE-86 3.5gr W/O flyer
Below Right: BULLSEYE_2.8gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 4.0"


Below Left: BULLSEYE_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr FRONTIER PLATED RN, Mod.recoil, Poor Accy, Group 2.25"
Below Right: BULLSEYE_3.0gr, CCI, mixed brass, OAL 0.975" Using 100gr BERRYS PLATED HBRN, Sligthly Snappy recoil, Poor Accy, Group 2.75"


My next post will be with BE-86 powder

 

[Artofgolf]

Good job, jell-dog Curious how the results with BE-86 compares with previous tests.

 

[jell-dog]

Good job, jell-dog Curious how the results with BE-86 compares with previous tests.

Artofgolf,
BE-86 results scheduled for release on Sat. Jan. 17th of 2015.
However, there is a sneak-peek SOMEWHERE here on the THR site
But for now, how about a few links to loading 380 from other forums

CAUTION: The following thread includes posts of non-published loading data testing this and other cartridges. These are posts by others on the internet or other gun realted forums. They contain loading data tested in their guns chambered for 380auto and other calibers.
USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, THR members, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

The Ruger Forum: .380 auto powder search

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/82781-380-auto-powder-search.html

The Firing Line Forums: 9mm bullets for .380?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484129

Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association: Suggestions for reloading 380ACP 95gr LRN

http://forum.pafoa.org/ammunition-reloading-25/211607-suggestions-reloading-380acp-95gr-lrn.html

M.D. SMITH'S RELOADING PAGES: Reloading the .380 Auto (9mm Kurz)(9mm short)

http://www.reloadammo.com/380auto.htm

ENJOY

 

[Artofgolf]

....I settled on for my LCP, and worked great until the Glock came along.

Precisely on the path ~ I'm thinking that there are 380 Auto's, & there are 380 Auto's; the G-42 is the latter
Thinking about 4.5g of Silhouette with those oddball HBFP Berry's 100g plated.
I would be hesitant to use them in any other pistol, primarily from a safety and performance standpoint.

But for now, how about a few links to loading 380 from other forums CAUTION:

I'm ruminating and trying to keep in mind that the majority of that load data was developed pre-Wharf Rat

 

[mstreddy]

Art,

Your Wharf Rat series is what lead me to work up for my own Rat and pay attention to the differences. It truly is a different pistol and what got me by in all others just won't work there. Well, that's why we reload, ain't it?

I'm trying to find the balance where the Rat will be happy and the others won't snap at me. I think that as the Rat is breaking in, it's getting closer to that ideal.

It's been a fun journey, and the folks here that have helped set the path have made it even more enjoyable.

Thanks!
Eddy

 

[Potatohead]

800-x 4......... 0.92... 90 SPR JHP
hp-38 3.3....... 0.92.. 90 SPR JHP
800-x 3.5..... 0.92.. 90 JHP
zip 2.9.... 0.96.. 100 rn
AutoComp3.9..... 0.965.. 100 berryRN
Bullseye 3..... 0.965... 100 berryRN
7625 2.7.... 0.96... 100 berryRN
Bullseye 2.7.... 0.96.. 100 berryRN
Bullseye 2.7..... 0.925.. 90 SIE JHP
7625 2.8... 0.925.. 90 "
4756 3.4.... 0.963.. 100 berryRN
be86 3.8-4.0... 0.963.. 90gr SPR SportsMaster

MsTreddy, some info from my 380 log..(powder,charge,COL,bullet wgt,bullet)

 

[jell-dog]

Precisely on the path ~ I'm thinking that there are 380 Auto's, & there are 380 Auto's; the G-42 is the latter

I'm ruminating and trying to keep in mind that the majority of that load data was developed pre-Wharf Rat

I agree that these older threads are using data and components that are a little dated, however, IMHO if they motivate reloaders watching this thread to tweek our pet loads (or if happy with our go to load), develope a "new" pet load in this time of powder availability problems and share that data and we all may find a new "pet load" with different components that reliably, accurately function in our pistols

I would like to get a G-42, not just because it is an accurate, dependable pistol, but also the reloaders on THR have developed safe G-42 data with many different powder/bullet combinations!

Also, IMHO, from the replies to this thread, there's a big interest in "380 auto" reloading, and data on your threads "Handloading for the Glock G-42" Parts I, II, III & IV, give G-42 WHARF RAT owners a cornucopia of data for "380 auto"

Artofgolf, IMHO, you and contributors to the "Handloading for Glock G-42" have done more to stimulate 380 auto data development than you may realize.

After all, we, as responsible, safe reloaders, can use the data on Hanloading for Glock G-42, reduce the powder charges and work up to get the functionality & accuracy we are going to be satisfied with.
Thank you
jell-dog

 

[Potatohead]

Heck yea there's a big interest in loading the 380. Very challenging trying to find a good combo..

 

[jell-dog]

800-x 4......... 0.92... 90 SPR JHP
hp-38 3.3....... 0.92.. 90 SPR JHP
800-x 3.5..... 0.92.. 90 JHP
zip 2.9.... 0.96.. 100 rn
AutoComp3.9..... 0.965.. 100 berryRN
Bullseye 3..... 0.965... 100 berryRN
7625 2.7.... 0.96... 100 berryRN
Bullseye 2.7.... 0.96.. 100 berryRN
Bullseye 2.7..... 0.925.. 90 SIE JHP
7625 2.8... 0.925.. 90 "
4756 3.4.... 0.963.. 100 berryRN
be86 3.8-4.0... 0.963.. 90gr SPR SportsMaster

MsTreddy, some info from my 380 log..(powder,charge,COL,bullet wgt,bullet)

PH,
WOW.......just WOW!!
And I thought I was testing a lot of powders for 380 auto!
Ya got me beat!
And none of these loads were accurate for your Sig P238?
Inquiring minds wanna know!!
jell-dog

 

[Potatohead]

I need to add that the 4756 ended up being to low, didnt cycle well. Long story.

Jell, not real accurate no. Of course this could be "user induced". And I should add that I dont practice with it. And dont do a whole lotta testing with loads and such like I do with 9mm. Its the gun I grab at the end of the session after Ive done all my "serious" shooting, and run thru a mag or two. I havent devoted near the time that I should, compared to my 9mm. So it's probably premature to say I havent found a load or that its impossible... But from the looks of it I have some work to do.