Handloads and Pistol Warranties

[Mike44]

I'm pretty new to handloading (9 months), and centerfire pistols (1 year). The manuals that come with new pistols (Glock and Springfield in my case) state that the warranty is void if you shoot handloads. I was worried that I could not get my pistols repaired under warranty as I only shoot handloads. I was having some trouble with a new Glock 42, took it to the Glock factory in Smyrna Ga. The armorer that met me said as long as you don't blow it up, Glock does not care if you shoot handloads. Glock fixed the pistol for free in 45 minutes. My Springfield Range Officer 45 cal was having trouble. I called Springfield, they asked what ammunition I shoot, I said handloads. Springfield paid the shipping both ways and fixed the pistol for free. I am no longer going to worry about handloads and pistol warranties.

 

[Bezoar]

all manuals say no handloads, even for a 22 rimfire. its generic "factory shall cover its butt in emergency".
Its a great great clause for the manufacturer to point too in court when this takes place

judge: why did your gun blow up in the plaintiffs hand, removing it at the elbow?

factory lawyer: the plaintiff used HANDLOADS when the manual said NOT TOO use anything but new FACTORY ammunition

judge : case dismissed, your fault for not followign the nice company manual.

 

[rcmodel]

Someone explain to me exactly How they would be able to tell if you were shooting hand-loads, or not!

If you didn't tell them???

rc

 

[PistolPete45]

Hand loads are better then factory ammo however a gun manufacturer has no way of knowing if you have good hand loads or some over loads bad cases or just used the wrong powder . It is not always the gun that failed .. Would think this is smart on the Manufacturers part . hand loads are fantastic But If a gun fails it is one of two things a defect in the gun or in the ammo . if it is factory ammo then someone else is in the law suit as well . I think about the Glock Ka booms

 

[Otto]

The manuals that come with new pistols (Glock and Springfield in my case) state that the warranty is void if you shoot handloads.

Incorrect. Springfield's warranty states that it does not cover any DAMAGE caused by hand-loaded or reloaded ammunition.
Just because you shoot reloads doesn't automatically void the warranty. Re-read your manual.

 

[beeenbag]

This is strickly for lawyer fodder in the case of an accident using handloads

 

[Slamfire]

I got to talk to a gentleman who was a Dan Wesson upper manager. This was in the early 90's, Dan Wesson might have been out of business at the time. Anyway, whenever a blown up Dan Wesson arrived at the factory, it was always due to hand loads.

Take a look at this blown up Ruger 44 Mag and the commentary on fatigue life by an engineer.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?150409-Ruger-om-44-convertible&highlight=convertible

I have met shooters of 44 Magnum pistols who shooting reloads that were 3 to 4 grains over max. Pressures must have been closer to 60,000 psia than 40,000 psia, might have been as high as 80,000 psia. Heck if I know.

A factory takes on a lot of risk if it warrants the firearms of knuckleheads like that.

 

[snakeye]

Incorrect. Springfield's warranty states that it does not cover any DAMAGE caused by hand-loaded or reloaded ammunition.
Just because you shoot reloads doesn't automatically void the warranty. Re-read your manual.

Why do think want you said is different than the OP

 

[Arkansas Paul]

There is a difference in not covering damage CAUSED by the handloads and voiding the warranty entirely. If the warranty is void, they won't do any repair work. However the way Springfield words it, it leads you to think that if something goes wrong that is not attributable to the handloaded ammo, it would still be covered.

 

[mgmorden]

Its CYA. They want to OFFICIALLY recommend against the practice because when some idiot blows the gun up (and his hand off) they want to be able to say "We told you not to do it!". Voiding the warranty if handloads are used is part of that.

Unofficially - they know very well that a lot of people handload. As long as you don't damage the gun BECAUSE of a bad handload they won't know, and aren't even going to ask most of the time.

 

[Steve C]

Basically if you blow up your gun or otherwise damage it when using hand loaded ammo you are on your own and the company will not cover the damage under warranty. If your gun is damaged when using factory loaded ammo then your remedy is with the ammo manufacturer not the gun manufacturer.

Don't expect the gun maker to fix damage like this.

 

[gamestalker]

This has been something I've seen in every owner manual of every firearm I've ever bought over the last 40 some years. And what I think are really saying, is that if some guy KB's a weapon with his improperly reloaded ammunition, they aren't going to cover it. A properly reloaded cartridge isn't going to ruin a firearm, and they obviously know that too.

But this doesn't mean all manufacturer's will over look that detail, so it's probably best to try and avoid volunteering that information if possible.

GS

 

[Sunray]

SA Inc. does too void the warrantee if you use reloads.
Page 7 of the M1A manual starts with:
" 5. The use of reloaded, “remanufactured”, hand-loaded, or other non-standard ammunition voids all warranties."
Still a CYA thing.
They warn against improperly loaded ammo causing slam fires too.

 

[tcoz]

I've had one Sig and one Springfield serviced under warranty and neither time did they ever mention handloads.

 

[mooosie]

I had a para ordnance p14 limited I reloaded and shot bowling pins on Friday nights didn't have a lockout die in my progressive at the time ( do now) and got a double charge in a case when I fired the gun it stung my hand was rather snappy in recoil and brass stuck I chamber we nocked the brass out with a wooded dowel
And the gun appeared all right but the slide was sticker lgs had para days with factory rep there in store I took the gun in and told him the story he checked the gun put a new barrel bushing in and maybe something else I don't remember didn't charge a dime and sent me on my way gun shot better than ever

 

[rodregier]

Glock in Smyrna in the past has replaced 2 cracked slides that I know of for locals here (one of mine, one for a shooting buddy). One for a G17L, another for a G17 - both 9mmx19. Vast bulk of the ammunition used was SAMMI spec duplication handloads, which was communicated to Glock during the warranty arrangements. There is a know issue with Glock slides cracking in high round-count guns. Since those represent only a very small fraction of the "installed base", I would presume that Glock finds it cheaper to simply replace a few slides rather than re-engineer the metallurgy and surface treatment of their slides. The crack occurs on the thinnest part of the slide below the ejection port, the other corresponding portion of the slide remains intact. (non-catastrophic failure).
(Typically only IPSC competitors, Spec-ops or SWAT personnel have the budget to get up to such round counts. The ammunition cost would be a significant multiple of the value of the Glock itself

The hint that you may have a cracked slide (and didn't notice the crack during the most recent cleaning and inspection) is that point of aim/point of impact relationship for windage changes by say 8 inches at 20 yards.

Glock replaced the two slide I know about without any drama.

Warranty replacements for firearms parts is one of the few "easy" US ITAR export regulation exception transactions for Canadian residents.

 

[retsub]

Yeah, don't ever tell Taurus that you shoot reloads. Don't ask me how I know. But they do offer to put your gun back on the warranty for thirty bucks.

 

[Bezoar]

ive seen the same warranty rule applied to pamphlets shipped with milsurp mosin nagant rifles. we all know how russian ammo stayed with in the original specifications during the height of the war.

 

[trigga]

i was worried at first too as i have two factory glocks in the .40 which was a big no no. the 40 is a high pressure round and the factory glock barrels have very little barrel support. i'm sure i wasn't the first one that was going to attempt it but like others say, work up a safe load and stick to published data. i just load mines to replicate factory loads. pay attention to your fired brass.

 

[jmorris]

Hand loads are better then factory ammo

Some are some are not. Pick anyone of the handloads that is a subject of a kaboom thread.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

As already stated, they are covering their fannies and can't tell if you are shooting handloads or factory. That said I operated a warranty service center for 23 brands of consumer electronics for over 20 years. 90% of out work was warranty.

We had to have rules about warranty because some folks would have a problem that was easily solved by a trained tech/factory yet *had* to take the back off the unit and get after the components with a screwdriver (or a hammer) and screw them up so bad a simple fix or tweak became a nightmare. So, generically, because of a small number of folks who abused the warranty, if the back had been removed or the unit disassembled in any way, the warranty was void.

Very few times did we actually void a customers warranty due to tampering but we had that option if they had basically destroyed the unit by tampering. I'm certain it's the same with guns and their manufacturers.

VooDoo

 

[g.willikers]

Has anyone actually seen someone seriously hurt by a faulty reloaded round?

I've seen plenty of damaged guns from nasty loads.
But other than very superficial damage to the shooter, the gun took the brunt of it.
And more often than not, the gun was fixed to live on.

A guy standing next to me did that to his revolver, like in the above picture.
Top of the frame and upper cylinder went through the roof, literally.
He got some nasty looking bruises and some minor bleeding, but nothing permanent.
The gun lost most of its resale value, though.

 

[RealGun]

I am no longer going to worry about handloads and pistol warranties.

Just don't tell Taurus unless ammo related (just to be honest). They will categorically void the warranty for reloads, even if the repair has nothing to do with ammo. The ammo question was one of the first questions Taurus CS asked, when I called about getting the fixed sight accuracy checked (and hopefully improved).

They didn't do anything to the gun except test fire and declare that 2-3" high and right at 20 feet was "within spec". I paid over $100, effectively just for a test target.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Hand loads are better then factory ammo however a gun manufacturer has no way of knowing if you have good hand loads or some over loads bad cases or just used the wrong powder . It is not always the gun that failed .. Would think this is smart on the Manufacturers part . hand loads are fantastic But If a gun fails it is one of two things a defect in the gun or in the ammo . if it is factory ammo then someone else is in the law suit as well . I think about the Glock Ka booms

I hate these blanket statements.

No, handloads are NOT always "better than factory ammo". And even if this were to be considered mostly true, that's not the point.

At issue here are ammunition standards around which modern firearms are designed to function properly and safely. A manufacturer of a firearm is essentially saying that so long as the owner uses factory ammunition designed to be fired in their handgun, they warranty their product.

That's ALL they're saying.

Once people go outside the bounds of their warranty assumptions, then you're potentially not operating their product in accordance with the design specifications they built it to. In otherwords, it becomes not only an unknown as to where the problem is if it's not operating properly, but an unknown as to actual liability if it fails.


At any rate, the entire warranty needs to be read to see what they cover and under what conditions. Non ammunition related failures, for example, are probably still covered by warranty. Like defects in finish, magazine problems, and certain broken parts.

 

[jmorris]

Has anyone actually seen someone seriously hurt by a faulty reloaded round?

That depends. My little girl gets a scratch and it's major (more so to Momma).

I have seen $1000+ pistols and rifles ruined by them. In my world that would be pretty serious hurt to my wallet.

I have seen some "kaboom" threads where I imagine folks needed a visit to the ER.