Happy Days in CA

[LiveLife]

It would not be unheard of to extend the start of the stay until the appeal could be heard on the matter

If that happens, more head exploding in CA AG office.

I definitely applaud CRPA/NRA for their work on this case - https://crpa.org/news/litigation/crpa-alert-judge-grants-partial-stay-in-magazine-judgment/

And gives this advise and I will take it as "lawyering up" and will follow their advise:

"... it is critical that anyone who possesses one of the magazines in California refuse to talk to law enforcement if asked about their magazine."

 

[LiveLife]

Podcast: California magazine ban update with Rick Travis of CRPA - https://gunguy.tv/vimeo-video/california-magazine-ban-update-with-rick-travis-of-crpa/

Rick advises (He disclaims he is not a lawyer):

• "Purchase" AND "Possession" of large capacity magazines (LCM) by start of stay (4/5/19 at 5:00 PM PST) is legal. Magazines ordered online but in transit after the start of stay may not be legal, especially dependent on local laws. But it will be difficult for the State of CA to prove when the magazine was purchased.

• To follow "common use" practice of using magazine that was commonly sold with the pistol. So if Glock 17 was commonly sold with 17 round magazine, don't use 33 round magazine at the range (For the time being) and use 17 round magazine. Since AR 15s were commonly sold with 20/30 round magazines and you can use them at the range. Ruger 10/22s were commonly sold with 25 round magazines and you can use them at the range.

• Law enforcement officers (LEO) receive brief 2 hour training in gun laws during academy and most are not informed on latest gun laws. Due to many gun parts and kits available, it is very difficult for LEO to determine what is CA compliant and what is not. Due to this reason, it is critical that anyone who possesses LCM in California refuse to talk to law enforcement if asked about their magazine(s).

• 17 CRPA cases pending starting next week - Keep updated with CRPA website - https://crpa.org/ Please donate to CRPA to fund continuing fight for 2A.

• Go out and share the information with others not informed that LCM are "commonly used" magazine.

FYI, Judge Benitez's partial stay was issued on 4/4/19 (To start 4/5/19 at 5:00 PM PST) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/happy-days-in-ca.849757/page-2#post-11098422

 

[DoubleMag]

The defendant (the state of CA) originally requested no later than the 5th.... and now is demanding by end of day today the 4th.

May be a reaction to realizing how many mags are coming into CA.

I wonder if they will hyperventilate while arguing the case. Right in front of the judge LoL

"Possession" of larger capacity magazines by start of stay (4/5/19 at 5:00 PM PST) is legal. Magazines ordered online but in transit after the start of stay may not be legal, especially dependent on local laws. But it will be difficult for the State of CA to prove when the magazine was purchased.

....well, if he thinks so. Harrassing an otherwise good citizen for following a judges ruling is severely frowned on by the court. Any court. Personally, also IANAL & IMHO, I do NOT think any local LEO hierarchy would want to...face scrutiny of this judge, with as detailed a ruling AGAINST the state.



ANYWAYS CONGRATS TO ALL CALIFORNIANS ! ! !

 

[LiveLife]

Magazines ordered online but in transit after the start of stay may not be legal, especially dependent on local laws. But it will be difficult for the State of CA to prove when the magazine was purchased.

well, if he thinks so. Harrassing an otherwise good citizen for following a judges ruling is severely frowned on by the court. Any court. Personally, also IANAL & IMHO, I do NOT think any local LEO hierarchy would want to...face scrutiny of this judge, with as detailed a ruling AGAINST the state.

That's what Rick from CRPA tried to convey on the podcast that right now, it is very confusing time for everyone, especially LEO. They often don't receive updated training on gun laws and certainly won't be up to date on latest rulings like today's partial stay as to how to enforce the law. If push comes to shove, and they cannot determine what is legal vs illegal, they may lean towards illegal side.

And that's why he advised everyone to use common sense and not draw attention to yourself where you have to explain. If you go to the range, take "common use" magazine sold with the firearm. If you are shooting Glock 19 that was sold with 15 round magazines, use 15 round magazines and not use 33 round magazines.

Of course, if you are concerned about taking LCM to the range, you can always take 10 round magazines without worries until dust settles.

 

[Jim Watson]

IT IS HEREBY FURTHER ORDERED that the permanent injunction enjoining enforcement of California Penal Code § 32310 (a) and (b) shall remain in effect for those persons and business entities who have manufactured, imported, sold, or bought magazines able to hold more than 10 rounds between the entry of this Court’s injunction on March 29, 2019 and 5:00 p.m., Friday, April 5, 2019."

I bet the various lawyers are going nuts today and will be racking up billable hours all weekend.

 

[AlexanderA]

Magazines ordered online but in transit after the start of stay may not be legal, especially dependent on local laws.

It seems to me that it hinges on the meaning of the word "bought" (since magazines "bought" by 5 p.m. on 4/5 are exempt from the stay). The act of purchase is complete when there is transfer of title. The normal commercial sale is FOB the seller's place of business. Risk of loss, then, is on the buyer once the item is delivered to the common carrier (post office, etc.). Therefore it wouldn't matter when the magazine was actually received, as long as it was put in the mail by the deadline. But this is just a legal theory.

 

[LiveLife]

That's why Rick Travis from CRPA said it would be difficult for the State of CA to prove when the magazine was purchased (and nearly impossible to enforce).

Podcast: California magazine ban update with Rick Travis of CRPA - https://gunguy.tv/vimeo-video/california-magazine-ban-update-with-rick-travis-of-crpa/

Rick advises (He disclaims he is not a lawyer):

• "Purchase" AND "Possession" of large capacity magazines (LCM) by start of stay (4/5/19 at 5:00 PM PST) is legal. Magazines ordered online but in transit after the start of stay may not be legal, especially dependent on local laws. But it will be difficult for the State of CA to prove when the magazine was purchased.

There was talk of stamping magazines with date of manufacture to prevent purchase past the legal deadline. Thing is that magazine parts wear such as follower, spring, base and even tube/lips can be damaged (some people drove over their magazines by accident and flattened them). So CA magazine owners raised the issue that parts of the magazine had to be replaced over use/time and that's where magazine kits came into being and was legal to purchase.

So even if magazine parts were stamped with date of manufacture, all the tens of millions of new magazines Californians bought between 3/29/19 and 4/5/19 (My birthday, interestingly) over time would wear and need to be replaced by date stamped magazine parts. Which makes date stamping of magazine parts moot.

 

[Jeff H]

6 more hours my west coast friends. Guy them all while you can.

If you haven't been there in a while, www.Ammoseek.com has a section to look up magazines if you are having a hard time finding them from major retailers.

 

[RA40]

Some sites list they will not be accepting orders from CA on standard/high capacity mags and that orders will be canceled. CA had a short but good run.

 

[LiveLife]

6 more hours my west coast friends. [Buy] them all while you can.

Thank you.

I have been buying large capacity magazines since the 90s and well stocked up.

Yesterday, I assembled the last of the legal magazine kits and with today being my birthday, I told my wife the magazine ban ruling was the best birthday present I got during my lifetime (And soon retirement present in anticipation of 9th Circuit/SCOTUS ruling) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ading-room-today.830858/page-65#post-11098452

I got judge Benitez picture on the wall of my reloading room right behind the press so I get to see it when reloading and whenever I look at the picture, it brings me a smile with a sense of freedom and liberty that the founding fathers did the right thing by setting up our government based on Constitutional Republic (Instead of Democracy where the majority could impose on the rights of the minority) with checks and balances so the judicial branch can right the wrong done by legislative and executive branches in preserving the Second Amendment rights as I wait to hear the opinions of justice Gorsuch and Kavanaugh - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/happy-days-in-ca.849757/page-2#post-11098430

 

[LiveLife]

Attorney Chuck Michel of CRPA/NRA just twitted - https://twitter.com/CRPAPresident/status/1114222299429752833

Now we fight the appeal

Recap and what will happen next - https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...capacity-gun-magazine-purchases-during-appeal

"A San Diego federal judge last week knocked down a state law banning high-capacity gun magazines, but in a new ruling Thursday held that sales and manufacturing of such parts will remain against the law until the case has exhausted all appeals.

U.S. District Court Judge Roger Benitez’s latest order essentially returns the situation surrounding magazines holding more than 10 bullets to the status quo that has been in place since the summer of 2017, when the judge granted a preliminary injunction. According to the terms, gun owners can’t acquire new magazines, but they aren’t barred from owning them.

The state Attorney General’s Office petitioned the judge for a stay to his final decision on the lawsuit, Duncan v. Beccera, until the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal can weigh in.

Benitez, while very clear in his March 29 opinion that the state’s ban is unconstitutional, agreed Thursday that 'strong and thoughtful views may be found on both sides of the important legal questions presented by this case.'

The judge said that while he is not convinced of the state’s likelihood to succeed on appeal, he recognizes other courts have arrived at contrasting views on this issue.

'This Court’s decision cuts a less-traveled path and the outcome is very important to all citizens,' Benitez said.

The stay also protects anyone who acquired a large-capacity magazine between the judge’s March 29 decision and 5 p.m. Friday."

 

[danez71]

Some sites list they will not be accepting orders from CA on standard/high capacity mags and that orders will be canceled. CA had a short but good run.

I got an email from one saying they are pulling all customer service ppl and they are helping to ship in the warehouse and that all CA orders have priority over all other states until the deadline passes. They are doing everything they can and I appreciate their efforts.

 

[LiveLife]

I got an email from one saying they are pulling all customer service ppl and they are helping to ship in the warehouse and that all CA orders have priority over all other states until the deadline passes. They are doing everything they can and I appreciate their efforts.

It sure is nice to see the support and coming together of the pro-2A community. During this time, the usual "crazy CA, forget CA" comments have been absent and I saw collective congratulations, celebration and support to get as many large capacity magazines in the hands of CA gun owners that it was liken to the Berlin Airlift operation.

I am sure my sentiment reflects those of other CA gun owners in deep gratitude and thanks knowing that we do not stand alone but we stand together.

And big thanks to numerous manufacturers and vendors who made the "Great CA Magazine Purchase" possible! The long list of vendors who supported us have been archived forever on internet servers/cloud and I won't forget them and I am sure many will support them for the rest of their lives - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LP1NCp0MjBoeDp6tc6ddb2dKKIAdqxU0qubnEANW4dc/edit#gid=0

And huge thank you goes to CRPA/NRA who have been fighting the good fight. Please join us in making donations to help fund 17 other active legal battles (Hopefully ammunition ban and CA Roster of Handguns are next) - https://californiariflepistol.z2sys...liforniariflepistol/donation.jsp?campaign=61&

 

[danez71]

Agreed.

The company I was referring to was gunmagwarehouse.

Even if they don't get all the orders shipped in time, the efforts are commendable.

 

[Poper]

with 9th Circuit judges replaced with more conservative judges by President Trump (10 already with 2 pending), future panel make up that will hear CA AG/DOJ response could be very different from the past. Elections have consequences.

But there are 29 active judgeships on the 9th Circus. Trump definitely has his work cut out for him!

 

[LiveLife]

the efforts are commendable.

I believe during this legal window that judge Benitez allowed, pro-2A community demonstrated to the world that we can come together and mobilize resources and manufacturing to accomplish great things.

I have a feeling what was accomplished the past week sent a clear and chilling message to the anti-2A crowd our will and determination, not to mention the monetary resources.

 

[LiveLife]

But there are 29 active judgeships on the 9th Circus. Trump definitely has his work cut out for him!

The appeal process could take years. We got time.

In the meantime, more and more pro-2A nominees will be appointed to various district and circuit courts and the SCOTUS.

 

[RA40]

This was in an email sent at 3:12PM:

Hi,

Really sorry but I can't fill this order. We got as many orders out as possible but too late to get anymore orders out today. Orders just pored in last night.

I expected that, this shop was one of the few that had mags available as of last night. I'm glad that fellow CA's shooters had 4 days of buying fun. I'll be adjusting my order for the 10 rounders.

 

[9mmepiphany]

This was in an email sent at 3:12PM:


I expected that, this shop was one of the few that had mags available as of last night. I'm glad that fellow CA's shooters had 4 days of buying fun. I'll be adjusting my order for the 10 rounders.

I sort of expected this also. Can't blame a shop for erring on the side of caution.

I actually expected more out of state vendors to stop taking order at 1700hrs (their local time) as the Stay doesn't specify PST

 

[LiveLife]

Attorney Chuck Michel just twitted CA governor Gavin Newsom, "Magazine Salesman of the Decade" https://twitter.com/CRPAPresident/status/1114316112328454144

There was a huge pent-up demand for standard capacity magazines, so over the past week hundreds of thousands of gun owners purchased these self-defense tools that had been unavailable for almost 20 years. Gavin Newsom is the magazine salesman of the decade.

He joins Obama and Hillary as "Gun Salespersons of the Century"

 

[RA40]

I sort of expected this also. Can't blame a shop for erring on the side of caution.

I actually expected more out of state vendors to stop taking order at 1700hrs (their local time) as the Stay doesn't specify PST

I thought so too though can see about the package being in transit during the effective period. One of the orders was held on a loading dock for 3 days...for a moment the thought was the shop was anticipating the Attorney General to issue a stay so they could reclaim all the CA orders. OTOH some shops still didn't ship to CA...

 

[sota]

While applaud all the shops that immediately started taking orders and shipping them to CA, I don't think it'd be fair to look harshly on those who chose not to take orders, or those who ended order taking early, excluding of course the usual scumbag suspects. It's a wild, wild moment in 2A history.

We over in NJ are just a bit jealous.

 

[RA40]

I'd have been very cautious if I were a business owner that had to contend with interstate laws like this. This was a very nice moment in CA for sure.

 

[LiveLife]

applaud all the shops that immediately started taking orders and shipping them to CA

I'd have been very cautious if I were a business owner that had to contend with interstate laws like this. This was a very nice moment in CA for sure.

I am sure vendors consulted their attorneys/lawyers before offering to ship to CA but most vendors didn't take long to do so.


Over the years, I have been buying more and more shooting/reloading items from Brownells and after this past week, I will be ordering more from Brownells/Sinclair International in the future and from vendors who supported CA gun owners.

Here's email from Brownell's who accepted orders to ship right up to 5:00 PM deadline - https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=797875007258789&id=100011088912909

"Valued Brownells Customer,

We’re reaching out to you because you’ve bought a firearm magazine/magazines from Brownells. We greatly appreciate your business!

Your magazines will be on the way very soon. Please bear with us as the sudden rush has our shipping department running slightly behind.

Furthermore, as you may or may not be aware, the California Federal District Court has issued a partial stay in the Duncan v. Becerra case. As a result of the court’s ruling, Brownells can no longer sell magazines with a capacity of greater than 10-rounds to California residents after 5:00 PM PDT on Friday, April 5, 2019.

As long as you bought the magazine(s) before the above-listed time and date, your magazines WILL BE shipped to you.

Brownells stands with California residents and your effort to own standard-capacity magazines. As such, Brownells is making a donation to the California Rifle & Pistol Association to be earmarked for the continued litigation effort in the Duncan v. Becerra case. ( )

In Freedom,

Brownells Customer Support Team"

 

[Poper]

more and more pro-2A nominees will be appointed to various district and circuit courts and the SCOTUS.

Yes. And this is a good thing.