Has Anyone Seen “Thank You for Smoking”?

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DogBonz

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Now, no matter what you think of smoking or cigarettes, this is a great movie, with a great lesson on how to argue. So, you might be thinking how is this gun related? Well, there are countless threads that go something like this:

This anti said “XYZ…..” What should I say?

This movie is great because it clearly illustrates the idea that “as long as you argue correctly, you are never wrong”. It is a satirical movie, and so a lot of it is over emphasized, but every time some anti opens his/ her big mouth, I mentally think WWNNS, aka, what would Nick Naylor (the main character in the movie) say.

Check it out. Its funny, entertaining, and you just may learn something… I did.
 
Good movie. Provides a nice satire about lobbying. My favorite quote, from the same scene mentioned above, goes something like...

Son: "But you didn't prove that you are right."
Nick: "I don't have to. I just have to show that you aren't right."
Son: "But I still don't believe you were right."
Nick: "You don't have to. It's not about convincing you. I'm convincing the people around you that you aren't right."
 
Matt

Yea, that was the part that I was talking about.

Love that line
 
This aproach is useful for superficial "winning" of arguments, but when it comes to actually convincing people and getting them to join you in your cause, it's useless.

You're better off educating than you are arguing.
 
This aproach is useful for superficial "winning" of arguments, but when it comes to actually convincing people and getting them to join you in your cause, it's useless.
Click to expand...

I agree, but not every situation offers a real opportunity to "teach." Sometimes we encounter the jerk at the cocktail party who makes some idiotic remark about the M1 carbine lapel pin, or whatnot.

Rarely is argument the best solution, but sometimes that's what it comes down to. 'Tis far far better to discredit the anti with some skill (to include smoke and mirrors) than to stand there stammering out whatever one-liners we might remember from gun show bumperstickers.

Teaching/demonstrating > skillful yet superficial BS argument > losing.
 
I liked when the lobbyists were sitting at the table b.s.ing and they talk about how many people a year are killed from their products. And how the gun guy looks like a chump when they state that tobacco kills forty times more people each year. It made the gun "problem" in America seem very frivolous. (Rightfully so I might add.)
 
It may be interesting in a "student center debate society" type of arena, but overall, a superficial "win" of an argument is actually a bad thing for us.

In fact, arguing in the first place isn't a good idea.

That may be a little hard to get some folks' heads around, so let me ramble on a moment...

You do not want an adversarial situation. You also do not want to "lose" in public, and a lot of the "true believer" anti gun folks have spent a lot of time going over their stuff. If you are surrounded by fence-sitters, and you get into a mudsling with someone, unless you're really lucky, things will turn out badly. And if you take someone apart in public, folks will feel sorry for them... You're the big bad gun person, and they're just a well-meaning anti-crime crusader... And nothing you're going to be able to say will persuade them differently.

Best thing to do in that sort of situation, with someone coming after you, is to just be logical, make a couple of points, and move on. Don't go on the attack. Instead, educate a little. And maybe bring up a question or two - "Why do you think that Rita here should devote years to martial arts study in order to be able to defend herself, when she could be qualified to legally and safely use a handgun in less than a week?"
 
I though the gun lobbyist was pretty well portrayed. American flag pin, orders apple pie with American cheese on it and a little American flag sticking up out of it. "How do you eat that?" "It's American."

Merchants of Death bumper stickers, getting stopped at the metal detectors at the courthouse- "You go on, this is going to take a while," there's a long list.
 
I think bogie describes the proper way to handle a discussion about firearms.

Part of the movie is showing that when you enter into an argument with someone who is politically skilled in debates, you're not going to win--you're going to look like you lost. Another part of the film is realizing that this is going on around you and that you shouldn't be one of those people in the crowd who gets duped.
 
Yes... and at the same time a Resounding no.

This aproach is useful for superficial "winning" of arguments, but when it comes to actually convincing people and getting them to join you in your cause, it's useless.
Click to expand...

Debating, arguing, persuading…. They are all like martial arts. The more styles that you know, the better off you will be. Even if you don’t use those styles, if you know them, you will be better able to defend against them. Then your Crouching tiger can counter the hidden Naylor… :D

P.S. Sorry, not enough coffee yet.
 
im a gun owner
though i dont smoke. im damn glad to support smokers rights in apropriate places. bars, restuarants etce ( not so much workplaces)/

the way i figure it. if you dont want to be submitted to smoke dont go to that type of place. slowly. the two will seperate. not to be mean to smokers. but many non smokers dont want to be around it. so you should be allowed to smoke. but you should have the decentcy to do it in an attempt to not offend others. if your in a bar where everyone smokes? light up. if your in a work office where people dont smoke? take it outside.
 
The examples illustrated in this film is precisely why I've got qiute a few anti ex-friends who will no longer associate with me. Not because I'm a pro-gun/whatever attack dog, but because they were attack dogs and still couldn't win arguements. Needless to say, trying the 'education' route with these people was worse than pointless.
 
Hoppy590, thanks for pointing out a parallel issue. Here in Madison, WI, they've instituted a smoking ban in restaurants and bars (with some type of exception for cigar bars). There were plenty of people here in town that love going to smoke free bars--most of the student population prefers that atmosphere. But none of the bar owners seemed willing to make the entrepreneurial move to capitalize on it, out of fear of alienating traditional bar patrons. Many of them supported the legislation. Now there's talk of a state-wide ban.

Another good trait about the movie was showing that smoking is a personal choice, and shouldn't be a legislated one. It showed that both sides had flaws, but the craziest were the anti-smoking fanatics (like those that tried to murder the lobbyist).
 
Christi, your point may be accurate, but in the case of trying to educate or argue with an anti gun person it is very very wrong. Because they aren't trying to educate us or you, they are using fradulent and incorrect tactics to try to make those listening think you and your pro gun point of view is WRONG, and in that you have the do the same to them only do a better job of it.
 
Years ago when I was practicing Respiratory Therapy at a large hospital, I wore a "Thanks for Smoking," pin on my lab coat. Patients would ask me, "Shouldn't that read - Thanks for NOT smoking." My answer was "Oh no, I want you to smoke, it's job security."
 
Read the Book, Too

Book is well worth reading, too. Christopher Buckley wrote it. I believe he is William F's brother. Gives a new meaning to MOD Squad.
 
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