have you been saved by a safe?

[primlantah]

i posted my question on TFL. but i will repost here

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287071
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I was wondering how many of you have:

1) been robbed and kept your guns because of either a safe or clever hiding? please describe

2) been robbed and lost your guns but had them recovered to you? describe.

3) been robbed and you lost your guns? describe.

4) for you safe owners: ratio=(cost of your safe)/(value of your guns). Priceless items should be noted but not included. What is your ratio? Im trying to see the largest value most people would find acceptable.

The reason for my question is i have seen a lot of firearms stolen in my life... some have sentiment and some didn't. In my time my family never invested in safes. Their methods were engraving and hiding. Im probably the first in my family to purchase a safe. Its not much of a safe(small sentry safe) but i feel its better than nothing. It would be easy enough to crack with a crow bar but is bolted to the ground and in a very tight and uncomfortable spot. just trying to gauge just how much practical "security" i can find with this method. and yes i have seen all the videos on you tube about breaking safes.

i understand the ideas and basics of safes but want to know how they work out in the real world.

 

[doc2rn]

When we first moved to Ks on Christmas day in 1979, our house was broken into by the kid across the street. He was looking to steal stuff to support his habbit. He got a rash from the rock salt, that is how we found out it was him.
Two weeks later his buddies try it, same result.

They waited till we went on vacation several years later and tried again the only thing they got was an old 2 knobber color tv & a pong video game. They did attempt to remove the safe from the basement but only managed to move it 3 feet, before tipping it over. They did not get the guns, jewelry, or cash as they where in the safe. To be nice we left that one for the new homeowner and moved out 6 months later.

 

[Feud]

My uncle certainly did. He and his wife both have very well paying jobs, and with only one child in the family he is able to use most of his paycheck to fuel his hobbies. The joke in the family is that he has enough weapons to invade a country, and given his special forces back ground he may have done so with less!

As it is he has two huge safes jammed with his collection (as well as documents and such). Well, he and his family went on vacation, and while they were gone the house was broken into. The thieves made off with anything they felt they could sell, making several trips to and from the house to load up stuff.

When my uncle got back they found that the thieves had managed to move one of the safes, but quickly realized they had no way to open it or lift it into a truck, so they left it alone (the safes each probably weighed a couple thousand pounds).

 

[tblt]

Been robed lost 0 guns had 11 at the time one was in the bedroom and not found 10 others were in a safe that is bolted to 2 walls and the floor behind a locked door.

 

[bowl443]

Had a buddy whose house was broken into. The gun safe was broken into and everything taken out. There was a 30 minute window of oppurtunity for them to do this. Took the door off the hinges.

 

[primlantah]

please include the make/model/approx weight of the safe in your stories if you dont mind.

 

[2nd 41]

Buy a good quality safe. No Junk. It cost the price of one good gun. and bolt it into the floor/wall. Do not think that it can't be carried out....it got carried it.
I was going through nasty divorce. I came home to a safe that was pry barred, hammered, hinges banged on...and no entry could be made. I had a rifle, pistol and a valuable pool cue in there.
A cheap safe gives the Feeling of security but it's worthless. They are only good to keep kids from getting to them. Get a safe before you have a problem. They fill up fast. Bigger is slightly better. Mine is not a fire safe. I saved $$$

 

[PTK]

My safe weighs almost one ton empty, is good to go for a worse than average house fire, and would take a dedicated person to get into it, along with LOTS of proper tools. Of course, it cost me in the mid four digits, but peace of mind is priceless.

It's a Graffunder "b" rate, I believe.

 

[41magsnub]

I have no illusions about how safe my safe is, but I got it for free. It is mostly to keep out the kids and the honest. I got it up two flights of stairs myself on a hand truck so it is pretty light.

 

[American_Pit_Bull]

You are safe, unless the BG is capable of swinging a sledge hammer or an axe...

If a thief with access to shop tools can't get into a 10 or 12 guage steel safe (same thickness used in commercial counter tops, burial urns, cookware, and even some automotive body panels), then they should find a new line of work.

This is a Liberty safe that shows what less than 5 minutes with an axe can do. The thief was gone before the police responding to the alarm got there.





Gun safes are made for guns. Not documents, photo albums, money, or valuables. If you have a valuable gun collection, you need to move up into a real safe, and not a tin can with a pretty paint job.

I received a reality check when a family friend had his gun safe broken into with common construction tools and all of his guns were stolen... It doesn't take a safe cracker to break into a gun safe. Another friend of my father had to cut into his safe after the tumblers went bad and he couldn't get any service from the safe company. He cut into the bottom of his safe (it could have just as easily been the side) with a drill and a sawzall.

 

[mainebear]

A simple Wally World locking metal gun cabinet saved my ex wifes life, and very probably my own. Crazy ex tried to take her life one night. (And I firmly believe it would have been after taking mine), didn't have the key to that simple cabinet. Hunted for better than an hour. (I was sleeping as well as our two daughters), I was finally alerted to the situation, she got help, and so on. Yeah, I know it's not much protection, but in this case, it literally was a life saver. If you can't afford a good safe, get something to secure those firearms until you can!! You just never know.

 

[Feud]

Wait, so the crazy ex was inside your house for an hour?

 

[mainebear]

Hi Feud: Should have clarified that. We were still married at the time. She had gotten involved with a sort of religious cult group that I believed was essentially harmless. Drove here around the bend. Was working 80 hrs a week, and just never believed that this sweet little woman would go this crazy. Tried to get her help, tried everything, that's why I guess it's hard to refer to her as anything but the EX. Rough on the kids, but 10 years later everyone is better off. Still have that crappy little cabinet though.

 

[Evyl Robot]

Do any of you guys have any experience with Sturdy's? I'm thinking about getting one of these when I can afford to do so... (Thank you, GWB!)

 

[kwelz]

Even a passable safe, much less a good one, will not be accessible by removing the hinges. When you lock a safe there are locking lugs that engage on at least three if not all 4 sides. So removing the hinges does nothing.

 

[CB900F]

Primlantah;

Might I ask your motivation for the research? Are you in any way, shape, or form, associated with any governmental agency? In either an employment or advisory capacity?

Just curious, 900F

 

[arflattop]

Many years ago (when I was still young and naive), I had my gun collection stolen from a gun cabinet while my wife and I were at work. It was a nice wooden piece with glass, etc., but obviously not a safe. Lost my Grandfather's WWI 1911A1, Ithaca 10ga S/S external hammer with Damascus barrell and some other collectables. Neighbors saw it happen but no one bothered to get a license number. I got rid of the cabinet and bought a small cheap safe that bolted into the wall studs. Used that until recently -- bought a Stack On that will keep honest people and idiots out of my gun collection. My house is 20 years old and won't handle a "real" safe. Someday we'll reinforce the floor and move on up...........

 

[Sungun09]

Sturdy safes

I spoke to Terry just yesterday to understand how they are different;

To me, the key points were, the shell can be 7ga. if you want, and the door 1/4
". The locks are the S&G 6730 (I think) S & G makes a cheaper model lock for the jap safe market.

They arent cheap, but my gun(s) arent either

He sounds very competent and spent nearly an hour on the phone with me. Check out his daughter who is a model and their web mistress as well...oh baby ..

By the way - ALOT of guys put signs on the safe "CONTAINS BLACK POWDER _ KEEP FROM FLAME !!!!" . Whether you do or dont make a burglar think twice... (I keep some powder in mine)

http://sturdysafe.com/

 

[Nate C.]

I just had a similar conversation with a colleague who was debating getting a gun safe: "They are too expensive. No room in the house. Maybe next year." I could only respond with: "You get what you pay for; hindsight is 20/20; you can never have too much gun safe, and if it's good enough for Chuck Yeager, it's good enough for me."

 

[primlantah]

No, im not affiliated with the government. I have a couple in laws with unsavory character who are itching to go back to prison. I have a hunch that my guns need to be locked down. The basis of my question stems from a history of burglaries growing up where most of them resulted in the loss of firearms among the usual items. I was talking to my dad the other day about a rare shotgun passed down through the family that was stolen and recovered. With the exception of this piece, which isn't in my possession yet , i only have 1 other irreplaceable firearm. Since i have a modest handgun collection i have a hard time rationalizing buying a safe that equals half the cost of most of my collection. I say most because i cannot attach monetary value to one piece, but even if i counted what it sells for at gun shows it still doesn't raise the monetary value of the collection much.

With everything i said above in mind, i bolted a walmart sentry safe(not a gun safe) to my floor. I'm living in a condo(with neighbors surrounding me being retired) thats 5 minutes between 2 police stations so someone breaking in wouldn't have an abundance of time. I figured with everything else in my house of value the thief would probably try to maximize profits for the amount of time not work at a 2 cubic foot box bolted in an awkward place. Im sure a burglar would suprise me with their ability and resolve.

This brings me to the basis of my question... are burglars generally able to outsmart peoples various methods of protecting their firearms? Lets face it, the prison education system does teach workarounds to..... ill leave my word for them out to not take the low road.

 

[primlantah]

sungun,

i was thinking about putting primers and powder in mine... let someone bust it open with a hammer . then again... wouldn't that be an IED?

 

[xsquidgator]

This brings me to the basis of my question... are burglars generally able to outsmart peoples various methods of protecting their firearms? Lets face it, the prison education system does teach workarounds to..... ill leave my word for them out to not take the low road.

I don't know about generally but almost any safe can be forced open in a surprisingly short time with simple tools, especially if one doesn't care about how much destruction there is to the house around the safe. I don't recall the safe dealer who did this, but one had a video they made of two of their employees getting into a $1200 (IIRC) safe in less than two minutes using just a couple of pry bars. The two guys in the video knew the weak points of the safe, but after watching the video it's not rocket science and most any of us could pair up and do the same thing that they did too.

Short of building a reinforced concrete bombshelter room, I don't think any safe you can buy will be uncrackable. When it comes to deciding what safe to buy and how to install it, I think it's all about getting bang for the buck. Most people say to get any kind of cabinet or safe, no matter how low end, and bolt it to the floor or walls. I didn't necessarily do that but at least I got a safe to keep honest people honest, and it's enough to prevent a smash and grab anyway. I get most of my protection from the house's alarm system, hardly any protection from the house itself and not a lot of protection from the safe. But at least it's something, and I could replace pretty much everything in my collection with insurance $ if it came to that.

As far as hiding firearms in lieu of storing in a safe, I've been convincingly told "DON'T!" The prison university system has apparently taught the criminals everyplace you might think of to hide something, no matter how clever. If someone has more than a few minutes to rob your house, that's probably enough time to find the clever hiding spots for stuff.

 

[PTK]

xsquidgator

The demonstration you talk of was done by Graffunder. They sell one of the only true safes - what most sell are "residential security containers", not rated against theft.

 

[Virginian]

You have different classes of criminals. First is your teen agers looking to tear up and wreck your house, and anything worthwhile they can find in it, and hopefully find some pets to kill, because they are bored. They are big money makers for lawyers and therapists, so no one is even slightly going to try to seriously stop this behavior. Even the news media loves it.
Next are your druggies. They want valuables for drug money. Usually not too sophisticated. They will steal anything, and often are too dumb to realize they would do better to not damage the goods. They are big moneymakers for the whole legal medical establishment, so again expect no serious de-motivational actions.
Last are your professional burglars. They case the premises well beforehand; most of us are stuck having to lead a routine life to earn an income, and they will take all the most valuable stuff. If they are top drawer, they will probaly leave behind an empty safe, but if they don't know there is a safe, they may not come prepared with the right equipment, and won't waste time on it. (Talking safe here, not tin cabinets.) They will probably not get caught until they start going for bigger and bigger hauls and run across a sophisticated alarm system they did not forsee. They will then serve some time and be at it again. They are usually smart enough not to get labelled violent, and all they did was cost you or me money, and who the hell are we to worry about anyway.
I have a genuine Browning gun safe, bolted in the basement, and I live next to a cop who keeps a cop car parked in his yard whenever he is home, but I still worry about my dogs when I'm at work because my wife works too.
I am afraid I have a sorry attitude because our country's dedication to not addressing the really bad or evil people in our midst makes me sick.

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Actually the video, "Security On Sale", was produced by Rogue Safe Co., a retailer who's major line is Graffunder. It was not produced by Graffunder themselves. It's on YouTube, should you care to view it.

If you do, pay close attention to the the two guys popping the unit. When you do, it's obvious that this is the first time they've ever done it. They waste time in several instances, yet still open the door in under two minutes.

I've got the DVD of it, as I'm a Graffunder dealer, & have viewed it many times. The unit they pop is indeed typical of the genre that is sold to price-point at the big box stores, etc. Perhaps the critical reason that it's as easy to pop as it is, is the lack of a proper plate steel frame. The body is of formed sheet metal. The frame is just that sheet metal folded to make what appears to be a thicker "wall" for the bolts to lock up behind. What's folding do to the strength of sheet metal? Gee, you got it in one! It took them only two.

900F