HD shotgun

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Jimmie T.

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I am looking to purchase my first shotgun for HD purposes. I currently have a 9mm semi at the bedside but want a little more security and something my wife can shoot. I have limited experience but have shot both 12ga and 20ga in the past. I think what I want is 20ga, 18 inch barrel, full stock with pistol grip, something that can be fully customizable over time as I have more to spend. Either the Remington 870 express - Mossberg 500 persuader or 590 seem to be the most popular choices. I don't have a strong inclination towards either and would probablly make my decision on initial purchase price. What else should I be thinking about here. I would love to build an all out tactical, just can't afford it now in one shot.
 
can't afford it

And don't need it.

Most any one of the Youth guns currently available will likely do what you want right out of the box. I see nothing wrong with a 20 gauge for a defensive shotgun, and they can often be handled better by smaller statured shooters.

I'd suggest handling the different available models at your local FFL dealers outlets, and if you can, get some range time with them. Nothing beats trigger time to figure out what features you prefer.

hth,

lpl
 
As lee said, I suggest 20 Ga. smaller shell means less "hurt" on the shoulder where your wife is concerned and I don't know from experience but I'm sure getting hit with a 20 Ga feels just as good as getting hit with a 12 Ga.
 
would probablly make my decision on initial purchase price

While price is certainly a consideration......if this is to be used as a HD/SD gun, do you really want to bet your life on the lowest priced gun you could find, or would you rather your decision be based on finding the best, most reliable gun for a decent price?
 
The .410 Rossi/Taurus Circuit Judge seems to me to be the perfect home defense shotgun. A frikken revolver shotgun! I mean, how perfect is that?! No short stroking. No need to learn to clear stoppages. No manual safety. Just aim and press the trigger. Anybody can pick it up and use it.

http://www.rossiusa.com/2010newcatalog/?catalog_page=5

No need to customize it. It's perfect out-of-the-box, IMO.
 
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Many people, myself included, own and like the maverick 88 12 gauge, which is under $200 brand new

What he said...
 
The .410 Rossi/Taurus Circuit Court Judge seems to me to be the perfect home defense shotgun.

It's a neat gimmick. But seriously, .410 for HD is ok(debatably.) but I wouldn't get all charged up over it being the perfect HD gun.
 
Federal offers two loads specifically for the Taurus Judge. http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/shotshell.aspx?id=847

Four 000 pellets (.36 caliber) "ought" to be plenty adequate.

Desire reduced wall penetration? 1/2 oz #4 birdshot (about 35 pellets, .13 caliber) is superior to any prefragmented handgun bullet. Load the first one or two chambers with birdshot, the remaining three or four with buckshot.

I can see a home defense version of the Circuit Judge in the future.
 
Look through the pawn shops. There are many options of all of the guns you are looking at.

Is 20 ga a little less punishing? Well, yeah, but not a LOT less. Especially for NEW shooters, why start with a smaller one? It's like learning basketball as an adult and getting a lowered basket and smaller ball. I DON'T THINK it's really necessary. A well set up 12 ga can be handled by an adult of any size with a minimum of training.

You are right to keep the stock, even if you want to add a pistol-grip stock later. Speedfeed makes full stocks with the pistol grip.

I will not try to get you to take any handgun (INCLUDING THE JUDGE) over a good pump. Even if the .410 defensive loads look impressive compared to HANDGUNS, they still aren't as good ad a 20 or 12 ga defensive loads. A handgun isn't as easy to aim as a long gun. Bapping someone over the head with a pistol butt isn't nearly as effective as a butt-stroke from a heavy shotgun. You are thinking along the correct lines, that when you are fighting for your life, you want to have the most effective weapon you can get. Don't compromise.
 
JimmieT,

Last year one of my 20something nieces came most of the way across the state (a long way here in NC) so I could teach her a session of Defensive Shotgun 101. When we got to the range part of the class, I laid out a selection of various pumpguns on a table for her. She wasn't a neophyte shooter, having used various handguns before, but she was pretty new to shotguns.

We had gone over form and gun mount, and she shot several different makes/models to see what seemed to work for her. What she settled on was a Remington 870 Express Youth in 20 gauge, with a 13" length of pull stock and a 21" vent rib barrel. There was an 870 Express Turkey gun in 12 gauge on the table as well, with a shortened stock and therefore exactly the same dimensions as the Youth gun.

She chose the 20 gauge to run the rest of the class with, not because it recoiled less (she said recoil was about the same as the 12 gauge with reduced recoil loads) but because she found it easier to physically handle- to lift, hold and point. That was because the 20 gauge was lighter in overall weight.

And that's what I meant by saying they're easier to handle by smaller shooters. Recoil is an issue, and the heavier the gun, in general, the less felt recoil is transmitted to the shooter. Using 20 gauge loads with equivalent muzzle velocities to 12 gauge reduced recoil loads (1100- 1200 fps give or take), recoil in the lighter 20 gauge guns should be quite manageable as long as the shooter is in good health and uses good form and a proper gun mount.

As long as she can manage a shotgun, that's what I would suggest for a main defensive weapon. I say that because a long gun is generally easier to manage under stress than a handgun.

But no matter what firearm is ultimately chosen, some good basic training is in order for any new shooter. Please make sure she gets what she needs. I'd suggest pointing her toward http://www.corneredcat.com/ as a good place to start learning some of the necessary attitudes and information.

hth,

lpl
 
I'm highly confident with my plain, used 870P for home defense.

2el3tdd.jpg

It also sees a fair amount of time at the sporting clays range. I swap barrels depending on my mood. The only change I plan on making is to a better recoil pad.
 
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Short barrel 870 in 20ga, be it youth, police, tractical whatever. Feed it Remington shells and its golden.
 
Shawn- Federal's .410 Judge load isn't really all that special. It just makes the .410 more effective in the Judge handgun. The loads for .410 shotguns were apparently absolutely worthless in the pistol (or so says those who have actually tested it and seen first-hand), so Federal's load was designed to make it more effective when being fired from a short barrel.

Load the first one or two chambers with birdshot, the remaining three or four with buckshot.

I hear things like this every now and then and can't imagine why someone would do this. You are putting buckshot in the last 3 or 4 chambers because you know it's more likely to be effective right? So why not put the more effective loads first? Isn't the idea to stop the bad guy as soon as possible?
If a situation has gotten bad enough that you need to use deadly force, then just use it. Don't futz around with birdshot in the hope that the guy will decide to stop.

I hope this doesn't come across as an attack of you at all. And actually, I don't even mean to attack the Circuit Judge either. The .410 in any loading does not exactly inspire confidence the way "real" shotgun rounds do (12ga, 16ga, 20ga) but there are a heck of a lot worse options.
 
Mossberg 500 20 ga., 18 1/2".
Enjoy and be safe.

Oh, and do avoid birdshot unless it really is for indoor distances. I hear a news story this AM on a dog who shot his hunting master -- dog stepped on loaded 12 ga. with #2 shot (which shoulda been steel) while master was 15 yards away pulling up duck decoys. He got hit in the back shoulder and left the hospital soon after. At 15 feet it won't matter. Past that? You want lead, and bigger, i.e. small buckshot.

Al
 
I hear things like this every now and then and can't imagine why someone would do this. You are putting buckshot in the last 3 or 4 chambers because you know it's more likely to be effective right? So why not put the more effective loads first? Isn't the idea to stop the bad guy as soon as possible?
There are many people who wish to mitigate danger to others in the event of an errant shot. They may live in an apartment, condo, mobile home, motor home, congested housing development, or their home layout simply puts those in other rooms at risk. We can offer them advice until we are blue in the face and we are not going to change their minds. They will not compromise their moral principles and put innocent lives in jeopardy. In their minds the risk of harming innocents outweighs the risks associated with using less effective ammunition.

So what are they to do? What are the tradeoffs? What are acceptable risks? What are their “next best” choices?
 
.get what shotgun best fits you,lots choices.

i had #4 noble buck in my 12 gauge till i read up a little on whats best on here,and here while back a car load of out of staters were parked in my long private driveway"sleeping",i live down a long county road,kinda ticked me off,i woke em up,kinda freaked em out,they apologized,wore out ,long drive,no money,blah,blah,i felt bad but anyway my shotgun is loaded with 9 pellot 00 buck remington now.especially in winter,thicker clothing"on a bad guy.
 
Thanks for all the great input. One point to clarify though. When I say I don't want to spend too much, I mean right up front. I do want a reliable good quality shotgun. The extra 50-100 dollars in my pocket doesn't help one bit when you are faced with a life and death situation. I want to start out with a very good basic shot gun and then add things like GR sights, laser or light, etc. I think the Remington 870, Mossbeg 500 or 590, or even the Charles Daly if they were still in business would all be deemed reliable for a good price. Right? As far as the 12ga -vs- 20ga discussion, that seems the harder decision. If I read Lee's post right, the lighter, over-all weight of the 20ga will make it easier to handle, while not really giving up much firepower. I do believe it is the skill of the shooter, not the caliber (ga) of the firearm that makes the difference.
 
I talked to Rossi today about acquiring a .410 gauge Circuit Judge for T&E. None will be available until Oct-Nov-Dec. This is the reason why I simply ignore the S.H.O.T. Show. In many cases the gear isn't quite ready for general distribution. I'm a "make do with what ya got right now" kind of guy.

Anyhow, MSRP for the Circuit Judge will be $618.00, so I figure street price will be about $500.00, depending on demand. Fitted with an 18.5" bbl it's 38" OAL and weighs 4.75 lbs.
 
I can't believe all the folks who have jumped on this Taurus Judge bandwagon. It is the best marketing of a new product in years but seriously it is the stupidest thing ever. As a shotgun it sucks cause of the rifling and as a handgun it sucks cause the rifling is so shallow. For anything other than a novelty/toy it is as useless as teats on a boar hog.
 
If you go the mossberg route, think twice about a pistol grip. If you have a pistol grip you cannot manipulate the safety or slide release without taking your had off the gun and away from the trigger. I highly recommend leaving on the standard stock.

Maverick 88 for under $200 sounds pretty good to me.
 
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