HD shotgun

[tack]

From what I've read, the 410 has way more stopping power than a .357 revolver, and I don't think the .357 is under powered for home defense. Then again, my vote does not count. My wife's vote counts, because she MUST want to practice for the firearm to be useful if TSHTF. Why don't you take her out and see what she wants to shoot.

Please consider http://www.endtimesreport.com/homedefense.html

Tack

 

[jakemccoy]

....................

 

[glazer1972]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

 

[Girodin]

From what I've read, the 410 has way more stopping power than a .357 revolver

.357 mag 125 grains at 1400 FPS 543 ft lbs, 25 Taylor KO, 8 Momentum

410 slug 95 grains 1700 FPS 683 ft lbs, 24 Taylor KO, 10 Momentum

With a 5 pellet 00 load you will get roughly the same velocity (IIRC from last time I chronoed them) as a 12 gauge but you just have 4 or more pellets fewer.

A .410 is nothing to sneeze at but I think I personally would take a carbine over it I think.

I would not go so far as to call that Rossi the ideal home defense gun. While .410 isn't a joke it pales in comparison to a 12 gauge. I personally don't put much stock in arguments that involve not needing to train to use the weapon since I believe that training is more important than what weapon you have. I wouldn't buy a HD gun planning not learn how to use it. Furthermore, I imagine that revolver shot gun is none too quick to reload. That may never matter, but then again it might.

I like gas guns, provided the prove highly reliable, because they allow faster follow up shots and less perceived recoil. A pump gun is just the ticket if budget is a primary factor. There are many good pump guns that run less than $300. Getting a basic gun lets you shoot it and see what things will enhance it for you. Personally for a pump gun I typically limit that to something like an XS big dot front sight, an extended mag tube, a way to carry a few shells (side saddle or butt cuff) and a flashlight. Others may find more or less to suit them better. I think the key is to use your gun and gear to learn what does work for you and what is dead weight or worse a hindrance.

 

[RandKL]

The Taurus Judge was eliminated from competition at the Box of Truth.

No, it wasn't. That's the prob with "experts". Someone says something and then everyone within hearing cites him as a source of what is, in reality, non-existent info.

The *ammo* the guy used in his water tests was "proven" to be lacking, not the weapon. But, as we all know, or at least I hope we all know, the weapon doesn't put the hurt onto the target, the fast moving projectile does.

That version of the Judge handgun could have been loaded with everything from #2 shot, to *FOUR* pellets of 0000 <--- that's FOUR zeros, mind you, to a 168gr slug moving at more than 1300fps. Instead, he used some #6 birdshot, a three pellet 000 that he had cut down with his pocketknife, and a 96gr slug.

The value of the weapon isn't lost simply because he didn't want to wait a few days to mail order some decent ammo. If we judged a weapon by what ammo we can get for it at wallyworld, pretty much all of them are ****....but who here ever limited their gun to that criteria?

The Judge, btw, also comes in a 3" chamber flavor. We all knew that, right?

rich

 

[broken]

ive always heard/read a .410 slug/buck was like a hot .40 s/w handgun round,i always wanted a saiga semi auto for my wife and daughter for the house never could find one.

 

[Girodin]

,i always wanted a saiga semi auto for my wife and daughter for the house never could find one.

I have one, and a converted 410 with a 15 round mag is a formidable weapon, but if weight and recoil are a concern I think the AR or similar weapon is better.

If we judged a weapon by what ammo we can get for it at wallyworld, pretty much all of them are ****...

wally world 12 gauge slug should be good to go.

 

[berettashotgun]

A 20ga mossberg is inexpensive and pretty sturdy.
Good shotgun.
Ditto on the 870 or Maverick 88 (does it come in a 20ga?)
Stay away from pistol grip stuff, and anything with magnum or "3 DRAM" on the shells. Too punishing for most people, let alone women who can't drive a t-post with one lick. (my kinda' girls)
K.I.S.S applies to HD weapons.
IMHO - proper mental training for the incident are worth more than physical training.
Like water skiing - you gotta' want to do it.
Don't get me wrong, being able to work your weapon while 3/4 asleep is very important - that's most likely when you will need to fall back to your training.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

As a shotgun it sucks cause of the rifling...

The Circuit Judge shotgun is offered with two barrel options: 1) 18.5" smoothbore .410 gauge shotgun, and 2) 18.5" rifled .45 Colt barrel.

Taurus' The Judge .410 revolver has never been of interest to me. I do have a co-worker that has one and we're gonna go out to the range someday to let me try it.

If I manage to obtain a Circuit Judge from Rossi for T&E then I plan to perform gelatin tests for my article.

Cheers!

 

[reckless carolinian]

Circuit Judge revolving carbine. An interesting(if nowhere new) concept. If you do get one, Shawn, please share results.

 

[Jimmie T.]

Great link! Yes, a road trip for training is the way to go.

 

[reckless carolinian]

Another thought on the CJ. Min Shotgun bbl=18". Min Rifle bbl=16". Which applies here. Off topic, but its been bugging me all day.

 

[augustino]

Just about any SG can be handeled by just about anyone IF they use that SG regularly, know how to use it correctly, know what to expect when they pull the trigger and are extremely familiar with that firearm.
In this case "familiarity breeds CONTROL" and if you're in control in a break in situation, the bad guy is at an extreme disadvantage.
Heck! I can't stand a SG with a pistol grip. They knock the heck out of the shooter. But if that shooter uses that pistol grip SG regularly they will know how to use it, know what to expect and how to control it. They will be at a distinct ADVANTAGE should the bad guy come a knocking.
Practice with what you have and do so regularly. This way, you'll know precisely what to expect.

 

[Jimmie T.]

Well, I did it! Last week I went down to my local sporting goods store and got a great deal on the Mossberg 500sp. He had to order it, but it should be in tomorrow. It's the 12ga, 18 inch barrel, parkerized finish. It has the full stock and also a pistol grip kit. I don't see myself using the pistol grip except for some occasional backyard fun or target practice. I do want to look into a full stock / pistol grip combination as one of my first mods. One that might reduce recoil would be great too! Any reccomendations on that? Also I have see some tacticle set-ups that have a sling on the forend. Does that provide grip? Is that the idea? Recomendations anyone? I can't wait to start the breaking in process.

Jimmie T.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

My opinion is get her a 20 ga. Double guns are much simpler to operate ,especially under pressure. The 20ga has more then enough power to stop any threat. And in a double barrel configuration ,with a butstock shell holder, is much easier to reload by instinctive memory. But if you are able to spend the time ,and , give her the training she would need, A pump gun may fill the bill.

 

[Nick5182]

I'd never heard of that circuit judge...I gotta look into getting me one of those.

 

[Jonah71]

Even though I keep a Mossberg 500 Cruiser 12 ga. loaded with 7- 00 "managed recoil" Remingtons next to the bed, I'm sure the first thing I'm gonna reach for is the old S&W .38 spec. The one plus about being older and living alone is knowing that any "bump in the night" isn't there to tell you "I can't sleep" or "Daddy, I need a drink of water."

 

[Fiv3r]

Good job getting the Mossie A dead nuts simple Mossburg or Remington pump is tough to beat. You get an awful lot for a little coin, plus you get to jump on the Ford/Chevy-like bandwagon as to which one is better

Honestly, I like both. My mother in law has a Persuader in her RV. I shot it side by side with my 870 Express Synthetic. Both went bang, cycled cleanly, and effectively made the bad guy target dead. What I REALLY like is my new-to-me well worn and buddah smooth 870P. Short length of pull, nice heavy wood furniture (good THUMP to it if used as a club), cheap enough not baby, worn in, but no where close to worn out action. A lil sanding and some polycoat wood stain as well as some cold blue, and I have a nice lil shooter that should last me the rest of my life

IMHO, anyone that owns firearms and can handle the recoil really should have a good pump. If you are a collector, then you probably have one because pretty much all of us end up with one sooner or later If you are just the king of you castle and need some bump in the night protection, a 12/20 gauge is certainly a comforting thing. Pumps are inexpensive, reliable, cheap to feed, eat pretty much anything, give you options of loadout, and effective on all manner of beasties, goblins, and bad guys.

Great choice

I do want to look into a full stock / pistol grip combination as one of my first mods. One that might reduce recoil would be great too! Any reccomendations on that? Also I have see some tacticle set-ups that have a sling on the forend. Does that provide grip? Is that the idea? Recomendations anyone? I can't wait to start the breaking in process.

Jimmie T.

They make all manner of different stocks for Mossies and Remmies. Personally, I'd just go with whatever you think works best for you. My M-I-L's Persuader has both the adjustable AR stock as well as the loop on the forend. I really didn't feel much difference in recoil between her 12g Persuader and my 12g 870 express. The stock did collapse down, which makes it easier to store in her RV, and I guess the loop would make it easier to work the action with one hand (a la the ol' movie one hand up and down rack) and keep it from being torn out of your hands by a determined bad guy.

Personally, I like simple. Simple heavy stock to soak up recoil and give the gun some oomph, no loops or slings to get hooked or caught on anything, no buttcuff ammo holders that slip around. I don't think a flashlight is a bad idea, but I don't have one on mine. I just keep 4 in the magazine and have practiced enough to know that if I do my part, it'll do its.

 

[Jimmie T.]

I got some bad news yesterday. The gun is on backorder now. It could be weeks before any are available. I have been all over the web and EVERONE is out of stock on this item. I can't believe everything is gone. Did they reallt sell out or did Mossberg lose money on the deal because it was too good? Anyone hear anythng on this?

Mossberg 50521 12ga 18cyl 5+1 full stock with pistol grip kit, parker finish!!!!!

 

[JamisJockey]

Alot of us tacticool our guns because we can. My sidesaddle, 3 point sling, and adjustible LOP stock don't make my shotgun any deadlier:
Check all the local big box sporting goods retailers. Watch for a sale on a 12ga HD gun or one with 2 barrels. Pawn shops can be hit or miss. Then, there is of course the THR classifieds. I got my Mossberg Persauder for $200 from here. Its a great gun as it was, before I accesorized

 

[Jonah71]

I'm sure I originally ordered the Persuader but was sent the Cruiser instead. And after looking at the receipt, I actually paid a total of $315. I like the 7+1 capacity. And for the $$.....I'm happy with it.

 

[Motodeficient]

Have you tried buds gun shop to see if they have one in stock?

Looks like they have a few HD 500s in the $300 range.

I personally like my maverick 88 which was $191 shipped from buds when I bought it.

 

[Jimmie T.]

Yeah, Buds is out of stock as is Able's. I checked a few other and same thing. The $265 deal is gone for now I guess. But yesterday I did see a Remington 870 Express model 5549 12ga 18 synthetic stock black finish for $299. They have plenty in stock. I am seriously thinking about that now!!!!!

 

[Jonah71]

Have you tried buds gun shop to see if they have one in stock?

Looks like they have a few HD 500s in the $300 range.

I personally like my maverick 88 which was $191 shipped from buds when I bought it.

I fired a Maverick last fall. Nice little chrome plated 12 ga. I believe it had an 18 1/2" barrel. So much fun I decided to at least think in that direction. Had never seen one before.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

Nothing wrong with any of the 12ga pumps available. I will suggest that you head over to Firearms Tactical and read up a bit. There's some advice here about "stopping power" and the various options in front of you when choosing to use a shotgun for defense that seems to be at odds with the research that is available. Let me throw in a few points that you might want to consider (more info at above site):

• Stopping an assailant means making him incapable of fighting. This means damage to the central nervous system or loss of consciousness due to significant blood loss (20% is a number I've seen used).
• With the above in mind, the FBI recommends rounds that penetrate a minimum 12 inches in order to have a chance to do the sort of damage required to stop an assailant. As you rarely shoot people head-on, most people wear clothing, and vital organs are located behind bone, 12-18" seems to be the general recommendation you'll read, but 12" is the accepted minimum -- if it's not going 12 inches deep, then it's not likely to cause the kind of damage you're looking for when defending your home.
• Projectiles cause damage by crushing the tissues they go through, not through a dump of kinetic energy, or hydrostatic shock, or other popular explanations. With this in mind, the most effective "stopper" among a group of projectiles that penetrate the 12-18 inches required is the one that creates the largest wound channel. This is why we use expanding bullets -- a bigger hole is more effective at damaging essential organs than a smaller hole.
• The recommendation on the page listed above for home defense is #1 buckshot, believe it or not (#3 for 20 gauge). The reasoning is that among all the rounds that have enough penetration, the surface area offered by all the #1 buck is the greatest, which suggests the greatest wound channel. This isn't an overall rule -- this is the recommendation for the sort of short range shot you're likely to see in the homes I've lived in -- hallways, rooms. Once the shot pattern opens up things change (read up, learn, get training, and make your own decisions.)
• #6 shot is a common recommendation, but it is known to make gruesome superficial wounds. If it doesn't go deep enough, it's not going to stop a determined/high/murderous assailant.

Here's a good collection of ballistic gelatin results for various loads you might consider. Remember, 12-18 inches is the goal.