heat treating cases

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Ron Go

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Working cases by resizing or tumbling work hardens them. To continue using them and prevent damage to the cases you can heat treat them. My question is what temperature and for how long? I have heard people use a torch in the dark but I would rather a less subjective method.
I can get my hands on a small muffle furnace and can set the brass on end and heat them up to any temperature/time. Would this work and what heat treatment suggestions do you have?
Thanks, Ron
 
No, deffinitely not. You only want to anneal the throat / shoulder of your brass. This softens it back to it's original hardness. If you heat treat the entire case, you weaken the base of the case which can lead to a case head seperation.
 
Just set them base down in a pan of water about half way up to the neck end.
Heat each neck a dull red in dim light, and tip them over in the water to quench them.

The water protects the base / head area from over-heatings and softening them dangerously.

DO NOT anneal the whole case!!!!!

Here is all you need to know about annealing.
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

rc
 
"..tumbling work hardens them."

Common on the web, but really not true.

Many of us believe that annealing necks to any visible red glow is much too hot and leaves the brass nearly dead soft.

I hand hold my cases, spin them in my fingers to get as nearly equal heating as possible, put the tip of the torch inner blue cone at the base of the neck and watch for a slight blush of color change on the body at the shoulder junction and drop them into a water bucket. That color change occurs seconds before any glow starts so it's a learned thing to do correctly. If I hold them in the flame too long my fingers will surely let them go!
 
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I've seen U-Tube videos of people doing excessive heating when annealing. Not recommended. My experience with rifle brass is you can get the neck and shoulder areas of the brass to a dull glow w/o any negative affects on the webbing or base. I use a variable speed drill on low speed and a torch. The brass is nested into a suitable recepticle like a hex driver that acts like a heat sink for the bottom portion of the case. It's not difficult at all and can greatly extend the life of some brass.

I would also have to challenge the comment about tumbling brass work-hardens it. That doesn't even make sense to me.
 
"My experience with rifle brass is you can get the neck and shoulder areas of the brass to a dull glow w/o any negative affects on the webbing or base."

Flash, the neck over heating issue isn't about annealing the lower case body, getting the necks too hot "burns" the alloy and destroys the hardness that makes for springback and bullet grip.
 
The link RC gave is the one you want to read a few times.

When all is right it will look like this video.

th_nottoohot.jpg

Even before you reach any "glow" the flame will change like in this video and that's too much.

jmorrismetal
[/URL][/IMG]
 
I would also have to challenge the comment about tumbling brass work-hardens it. That doesn't even make sense to me.
Click to expand...
Yep, can't see it.

Overheating the neck shoulder area will make it dead soft, not necessarily dangerous, but not good for accuracy either. We want a little spring to the brass, as ranger335v posted.

I have used the "water" method rcmodel posted, and the "twirl it in your hand" method. Either will work. The first is easier to over anneal with, and the second is easier to under anneal. Both take a little practice.

Those auto machines like shown on 6MMBR are the schnitz, but not everyone has the bucks for them.
 
At the super light neck tension most BR shooters use and the tight tolerances in the neck area, dead soft is OK as long as you repeat it every time. I never annealed my 6 PPC cases. Why bring that variable in. Once my necks got work hardened a bit the neck tension would remain the same. Cases lasted so long I couldn't see worrying with annealing them. It was not widely used when I was shooting BR, but seems to have its fans now.
 
I don't shoot benchrest but do appreciate the accuracy benefits you get by handloading. There are two instances when I anneal. For me, a tell-tale sign annealing is needed is when deburring becomes difficult and you get "gauling or chatter" when using the deburring tool instead of a smooth uniform cut ... and ... when I reform cases going from a larger to smaller size. Annealing when reforming greatly increases yeild. Both have the added benefit of extending case life.
 
I did read that tumbling too long would make the mouths a little harder but I can agree with everyone that it would be very little if any compared to resizing.
It seems there is a fine balance for heating - just enough but not too much. Maybe 5 seconds at the blue tip of the torch until a color change is noted.
I think I will err on the safe side and not add too much heat. I could always debur to see if the process is smooth and if still not working could always heat treat again?
 
I've annealed cases several times by the cheap & dirty method of depriming the case, standing it up in an inch of water, heating the neck until it changes color, then tipping it over into the water. Pretty crude, but the necks of those batches of cases quit cracking.....
 
Just a suggestion.
If you are going to start annealing, get a bunch of range brass and practice on that. It takes a while to get the hang of it, and there is little point in ruining good brass.
 
The only problem that I have had with work hardening was when making 308 Norma brass out of 300 H&H. You have to set the shoulder back about a half inch and cut the brass off so that the neck of the new brass is where the shoulder was formerly. Then you anneal them using the procedure that Rcmodel posted. Worked swell.
 
I recently started reloading for .577/.450, & .577 Snider, for which annealing is a required step on a semi-regular basis. On another forum, that deals mainly with these older calibers, a couple of the members suggested using a product called Templac, which you dip the area of the case to be annealed in, & it will change color when the right amount of heat is reached. It apparently comes in a few different heat ranges for different purposes. Also, one of the other forum's members made up some 'shellholders' that fit into an electric drill (or similar) so you can turn the case at low speed while annealing so you can get a more even heat application.
 
for those who cast their own bullets...why not bring your lead pot up to 600F...dip the neck and half the shoulder into the molten lead for a few seconds ...then put aside? Air cooling is as good as water cooling when it comes to annealing...if I remember correctly.
 
I do as Bluehawk does with the lead pot. I use my fingers bare as the heat will warm them up fast if the neck gets too hot. Most take a couple seconds to anneal. Then I drop them into a tub of ice water. There seems to be a difference between air cooling and quenching with my brass. Gramps taught me how to do this to save brass from splitting in the 60's and I just did it, never asked why the need to use the icewater. When it is real cold in the wintertime I just throw them in the snowbank. Downside is not finding all of them until spring thaw sometimes.:D
 
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Air cooling is as good as water cooling when it comes to annealing...
Click to expand...

If the case necks are heated to glowing temps, that heat is rapidly transfered to the casebody and casehead.
Dropping the case in a bucket of water (or submerging the casehead) instantly freezes the brass softening in it's tracks, from moving throughout the casebody (brass conducts heat much better than raidiating it to the air).

Heating the casenecks until I see the color change, then dropping into a bucket of water, is the method I like best.
 
If the case necks are heated to glowing temps,
Click to expand...


...you have heated too much. I don't like water as it adds drying time. I really don't like the sound of water near molten lead.
 
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