Most practical way to heat bullet casting lead for fluxing?

[JimGnitecki]

Being new to bullet casting, I am heeding the warnings to NOT flux my casting lead in my bottom drop Lyman lead furnace where it can cause the bottom valve to clog or leak.

I plan to use a 6" diameter by 3" high stainless steel pot with a good long insulated handle as the "container" in which I will do the skimming.

But I am wondering what is the most practical way to heat that pot with its load of up to 25 lb of lead to a suitable melt temperature that's likely to need to be about 750 degrees?

I would strongly prefer to stay electrical versus gas or liquid fuel for safety and ease of use reasons, and I do have a full 1800 watt electrical circuit available to feed the process. I know that 1800 watts is more than enough as the Lyman furnace is built to use a normal electrical receptacle. And safety trumps speed of heating in my value system.

So, what inexpensive devices can I use? Would a simple hot plate or induction heater be a practical and inexpensive solution? Or?

Jim G

 

[Barbaroja]

Propane Turkey fryer, simple solution. Although, from the posts of yours I have read, that’s not your style

 

[JimGnitecki]

Yeah, I don't want to use Propane or Coleman fuel. I wonder too: How many watts will I actually need in a hot plate? I am asking because whatever I buy will be used ONLY for lead heating, for safety reasons, so I don't want to spend a lot on it. Hot plates come in wattage ranges from 500 to 2400 watts, with the cost going way up with wattage. How many watts do I actually need? I don't care if it takes a bit longer to come up to proper temperature for skimming off the dross.

Jim G

 

[243winxb]

A 1000w hot plate should work. Lyman pots are 850w But it must handle the weight. My 40 lbs of lead, plus pot, may crush a hot plate?
I use an old Coleman, with a very heavy steel grate platform.



Lee 20 Lb. Lead Melting Magnum Melter & use a small ladle to pour ingots. But 4" diameter is small.

 

[JimGnitecki]

A 1000w hot plate should work. Lyman pots are 850w But it must handle the weight. My 40 lbs of lead, plus pot, may crush a hot plate?
I use an old Coleman, with a very heavy steel grate platform.

Ok, if 1000 watts is sufficient, that gives me more choices at lower cost. I plan to do 25 lb at a time (that's 350 500g bullets), and the pot will weigh less than 2 lb (it's a s.s. saucepan 6" diameter by 3" high), so 27 lb total weight on the hot plate. Several of the available hot plate models have a cast iron cook surface and s.s. body, so should be able to handle the 27 lb.

Beyond safety, a primary reason for wanting a simple hot plate solution is fast and easy setup and takedown, as I will be doing this all outdoors for safety reasons. My workbench will be a "permanent" outdoor setup, away from the house, the rear garage, and the fence. It will consist of 2 towers of 8" x 8" x 16" concrete blocks, each 4 blocks (32") high, with a "tabletop" that is a 24" x 30" 3" thick concrete slab. This workbench is obviously fireproof and VERY stable (The top slab weighs 100 lb). The advantage of being permanent is that I avoid having to set up a work surface every time I want to flux or cast, and the workbench is obviously unaffected by permanent exposure to weather, or by any accidental Lead spillage.

I can run an extension cord to the hot plate much faster and more easily than playing with gas connections or fuel cans.

I'll still have a bunch of stuff I'll need to set up each time:
exhaust fan (yes, it's outdoors, but I still want to move the Lead fumes AWAY from me)
faceshield (Lead in the eyes or mouth would be a medical disaster)
respirator mask (Lead fumes are toxic)
my TIG welding jacket (won't melt if hit by Lead)
Lyman Mag 25
mold with mold handle
beeswax
ladle
Lead alloy
1" dowel for striking the sprue plate
Nitrile gloves (protection against lead on my hands)
welding long gauntlet gloves (protection against burns on my hands, wrists, and lower arms)
s.s. pot for fluxing lead
cookie sheet (to place under cloth that I drop the bullets onto. No water quenching, because I don't want hard bullets for the Pedersoli))
sprue cloth & cast bullet cloth
metal can half filled with sand or ashes to drop the skimmed off dross into.
hot plate
Sponge saturated with water - to clean up spills and to cool spilled lead or a too-hot mold quickly
ingot mold
ingots

so it's already too long a list, so I want to try to NOT add any more items than I absolutely need to add.

Jim G

 

[JO JO]

Lee 20 Lb. Lead Melting Magnum Melter & use a small ladle to pour ingots. But 4" diameter is small.

that is what I use works fine

 

[JimGnitecki]

That Lee Magnum 20 lb melter has only 700 watts of heating power, only a 4" diameter opening, and costs about $125 here in Canada. Does it offer any advantages over a $25 s.s. sauce pan with a 6" diameter opening and a $37 1500 watt cast iron hot plate? I'm asking because maybe I am missing something important.

Jim G

 

[hdbiker]

I use a old Coleman camping stove I bought at a yard sale

 

[Chuck R.]

Propane Turkey fryer, simple solution. Although, from the posts of yours I have read, that’s not your style

My method a well.

From there, it gets fluxed and turned into ingots for later use in my electric Waage casting pot.

 

[FROGO207]

When using the electric heat setup get the largest amp rating extention cord you can find. 14GA or even 12GA will be better. The device is designed to be plugged into the wall outlet directly for maximum heating efficency. Longer cord will drop voltage and not be so efficent. Heats cord and delivers less "useful heat" to the device. I also use an old repurposed turkey fryer and dutch oven to melt my lead as I process them into ingots.

 

[edwardware]

Being new to bullet casting, I am heeding the warnings to NOT flux my casting lead in my bottom drop Lyman lead furnace where it can cause the bottom valve to clog or leak.

This does not make sense. One of the advantages of a bottom tap pot is that the sludge of fluxing doesn't enter the workstream, or clog the tap. Additionally, you want to maintain a cover of flux on the molten lead as consistently as possible to avoid oxidizing out the alloys.

What you should not do is render dirty lead, like wheel weights or burm scrap, in your small pot. That wants a separate 'dirty' pot, on something like a turkey fryer.

 

[243winxb]

a $37 1500 watt cast iron hot plate

Should be ok. Cast iron sounds strong enough to handle the weight?

 

[JimGnitecki]

When using the electric heat setup get the largest amp rating extention cord you can find. 14GA or even 12GA will be better. The device is designed to be plugged into the wall outlet directly for maximum heating efficency. Longer cord will drop voltage and not be so efficent. Heats cord and delivers less "useful heat" to the device. I also use an old repurposed turkey fryer and dutch oven to melt my lead as I process them into ingots.

Yes, I always make a point of buying and using 12 gauge extension cords when the current draw is large or the distance is long!

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

This does not make sense. One of the advantages of a bottom tap pot is that the sludge of fluxing doesn't enter the workstream, or clog the tap. Additionally, you want to maintain a cover of flux on the molten lead as consistently as possible to avoid oxidizing out the alloys.

What you should not do is render dirty lead, like wheel weights or burm scrap, in your small pot. That wants a separate 'dirty' pot, on something like a turkey fryer.

Apparently, the reason they give for not doing fluxing in a bottom tap furnace pot is because you are supposed to agitate the beeswax or other fluxing agent well into the mix before letting it form a skin on top AFTER that, and the agitation can get any hidden crap close enough to the bottom valve to foul it, and apaprently it is very hard to clean it and easy to damage the valve as well while trying to do so. All the sources I have referenced say to NOT flux in your bottom tap pot.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Should be ok. Cast iron sounds strong enough to handle the weight?

yeah, cast iron flat-plate ELEMENT on a stainless steel frame/body. NOT a plastic body under the element is the key I think.

Jim G

 

[Ritchie]

I would make it a point to keep water and lead far distant from each other. Air will cool a mold just fine.

 

[starnbar]

Flux is done to move the impurities to the top of the pot so they can be drawn out anything lighter than lead rises to the surface to be skimmed out.

 

[BWS]

Been fluxing in my bttm pour Lyman 10# since the mid/late 1970's. Hasn't caused one problem.

 

[WestKentucky]

My hot plate is a 600 watt and my pot is a small fondue set I got at goodwill. The setup isn’t quite enough to get all the way to molten. It will get hot and it will get soft, but not quite melt. I set up a box of loose 2x6 scraps around it to insulate it once and that got it hot enough but it also started to melt the plastic parts of the hot plate. I gave up on that setup and just used my little pot from that point on. I don’t cast much though so there’s that too. It’s still boxed up from moving 2 years ago, and I’m about 90% moved again this time. I think it’s in the garage at the house we are selling…. But I’m not even certain of where all my casting stuff is. I know for sure where my lead is though.

If you have trouble, maybe try insulating your pot to retain heat instead of radiating it away and transferring it places you don’t want it.

 

[Y-T71]

Apparently, the reason they give for not doing fluxing in a bottom tap furnace pot is because you are supposed to agitate the beeswax or other fluxing agent well into the mix before letting it form a skin on top AFTER that, and the agitation can get any hidden crap close enough to the bottom valve to foul it, and apaprently it is very hard to clean it and easy to damage the valve as well while trying to do so. All the sources I have referenced say to NOT flux in your bottom tap pot.

Jim G

What you are describing with beeswax is often referred to as "flux" but in reality, it is merely reducing any oxidized tin back into your melt.
It does nothing to remove impurities.

This poses no harm to your bottom pour pot.

The true act of fluxing would involve removing impurities from your melt; using sawdust for example, allowing it to char, creating microscopic pores that trap impurities allowing them to be skimmed off the surface.

If stirred into your alloy (as should be done to expose the maximum amount of alloy to the flux) yes, you are introducing the likelihood of eventually clogging your valve.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I would make it a point to keep water and lead far distant from each other. Air will cool a mold just fine.

Yes! Good point. Water + Lead = instant high pressure steam!

Jim G

 

[Thomasss]

Yep something else I've been doing wrong for 50 years...I only "flux" after introducing new lead to the pot by adding a "little" finger nail piece of bees wax to the pot and stir in in only going 1 1/2" deep. I will get some black slag come to the top and skim that off with an old spoon and throw it into a "slag box" made of 3/4 inch pine. It eventually goes to the scrap yard. I've had both Lee and Safeco lead furnaces for 50 some years and it never seemed to bother either bottom pour units.

 

[J-Bar]

Before I started using a propane burner, I melted several hundred pounds of scrap lead over charcoal briquettes. Yes, they get hot enough... very quickly if you blow on them with a hair dryer or leaf blower!

Just in case you need to smelt some lead when the power is out.

 

[Bazoo]

You can and should use beeswax to flux your alloy in your bottom pour pot. You shouldn't render wheel weights in a bottom pour, but it has been done. I did it a bunch when I first started. I never had any issues, but I cleaned the alloy very well and did my best to scour the pot and valve rod too. Ya do what you got to do.

One of the biggest learning curves I had when melting alloy, was fluxing, specifically not stirring and scraping long enough.

Technically using beeswax is not flux..but it is flux for our purposes. Using candle wax or sawdust doesn't make the melt act as nice as does beeswax. It helps the alloy to flow better. Try all three and see what you prefer, I bet you'll like beeswax best.

When you first start up your pot, use a pea or 2 pea sized pieces of beeswax, put it in the melt and let it melt and char for a few minutes. Then stir it all through the alloy, scraping the sides and bottom of the pot and the value rod. I do up and down and sideways, using a stainless eat'n spoon with a wooden handle attached. You should do it more than you think... maybe 30 seconds to a minute. Then scrap the powder and junk off the top of the alloy and flux again, but with less to no scraping, and just stir the flux through the melt well. Leave this on top of the alloy when you're done, as it will help to reduce oxidization.

 

[jmorris]

So, what inexpensive devices can I use? Would a simple hot plate or induction heater be a practical and inexpensive solution? Or?

I built my pot using 7” 3/8 wall steel pipe, holds just over 60 lbs. I wrapped a new 3500 watt oven element ($10) around the pipe. Before I converted it over to bottom pour the trunnions up near the top were the pivot and there was a section of pipe off the U shape at the top to pour.

I use a solid state relay and a PID to turn it on/off. I did wrap stainless steel around the element to hold it tight and keep heat in somewhat.

FWIW I flux in my casting pot but I don’t put anything except clean lead in it, have a different setup for melting lead into ingots for casting.