help! 308 sizing issue with my new xbolt

[greyling22]

so I've run into a bit of an issue: I've been reloading 308 for a savage 110, and my buddy's m1a. no issues. I recently bought a browning xbolt in 308. took it out and the bolt didn't want to close. so I forced it. fired fine, but didn't want to open. cut the range day short and took it home and it popped out easily with a cleaning rod down the bore. So I tried a freshly sized and trimmed case: same issue. So I took it to my gunsmith, and it closed easily on the go gauge and did not even try to close on the no-go gauge. A factory round cycled and chambered easily.

so the problem seems to be in my reloading die. It's a fairly new production Lee die. I made sure the die was set properly per Lee's direction, and when that didn't work I tried a little more just to make sure. still no go. So I got out the trusty belt sander and took .02 or so off the top of the shellholder. The bolt can now be closed, but it takes significant effort, and while it will lift, it will not open. dropping a cleaning rod down the bore easily pops the bolt open. A loaded factory round still cycles and ejects easily. my freshly sized cases still cycle fine in the savage.

So what am I doing wrong, and how do I fix it? do I keep taking the top off the shellholder? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[JFrank]

Take more off the shell holder

 

[Charlie98]

Have you tried to see where it’s catching? The neck, the base?

 

[nettlle]

Buy a good case gauge. I have a Sheridan Engineering .308 slotted case gauge and highly recommend it. This gauge will show where the problem is. You also may need a Small Base die. I have had factory ammo that would not chamber and also fail the case gauge.

I don't do belt grinding on my reloading equipment. That's the tail wagging the dog.

 

[AJC1]

In the wisdom of sir Duffy, slide a feeler Guage under the case in the slot of the shell holder. A .005 should fit and report back after sizing one and checking for fit.

 

[Howa 9700]

I had a similar situation with some rounds a friend loaded for me. New, never fired R-P brass. He did not run it thru a sizing die, just loaded it. Half would chamber and bolt close.....but barely. Very tight.. Half would not.

I have the Hornady case comparator set. I also bought a no-go gauge. Ran that into the comparator to get a baseline no-go measurement. Then ran some of the cases thru that would not chamber and they were as much as 0.005 OVER the no-go gauge. So were going to have to be resized. Measured them all and those that would not chamber were pulled down and resized (depriming pin removed first).

So if faced with OP's situation, I'd be doing something similar. Measure the shoulder of a case that will chamber and then those that won't. They will be the same or different. If those good, start looking elsewhere like length of brass (does it need to be trimmed) or seating depth of the bullet. Is it into the lands? Not that many sources of error. If rifle is chambered right, then die is bad or is not setup right.

In the Lee book, Richard Lee mentioned that Lee dies are made to resize brass as little as possible to get brass to fit iin a SAMMI chamber. Basically the opposite of small base dies. Perhaps the Browning is a tight chamber?

 

[Howa 9700]

BTW, forgot to mention, when I measured shoulder on factory ammo, it was very close to SAMMI min. About 0.004 to 0.005 less than fired brass or the no-go gauge. So a lot of "slop" in those.

Would be interesting to measure fired brass from both guns to see how the chambers compare.

 

[Dane R. Marley]

I use Redding Competittion Shell holders.

I use Redding dies for my 308 but I just purchased a Mighty Armory Sizing Die. I will be play with that soon.

watch this:

 

[Walkalong]

Take more off the shell holder

Mark it if you do, but I would prefer taking it off the bottom of the die if you're absolutely sure that's what it needs.

In the wisdom of sir Duffy, slide a feeler Guage under the case in the slot of the shell holder. A .005 should fit and report back after sizing one and checking for fit.

This would be one way to gather evidence

 

[JFrank]

I use Redding Competittion Shell holders.

I use Redding dies for my 308 but I just purchased a Mighty Armory Sizing Die. I will be play with that soon.

watch this:

Comp shell holders only help if the chamber is long or the die is short assuming one wants a cam over/ crush fit.

 

[243winxb]

So what am I doing wrong

Using the same brass in all 3 guns? Not a good idea. Each gun should have it own brass.

New gun needs new brass.

Fire & reload the factory ammo brass. See if things change.

 

[JFrank]

Mark it if you do, but I would prefer taking it off the bottom of the die if you're absolutely sure that's what it needs.

This would be one way to gather evidence

Yes, imo the best way is to learn how and where to measure brass before and after ignition, the basic shell holders are .125 deck height I’ve reduced them with a belt sander just eyeballing then adjust my die sizing and measuring a bit at a time until I have a full understanding of how much sizing my die is producing. The top of a shell holder doesn’t have to be perfect only the base.

 

[FROGO207]

WIN 243xb beat me to it. Try your rifle with some factory ammo. Then reload that and try it. If you are crimping the bullet in try not crimping. Coloring a resized brass with a magic marker and trying to chamber it will also be a diagnostic step. You probably have a tight chamber in that rifle.

 

[Slamfire]

s

so the problem seems to be in my reloading die. It's a fairly new production Lee die.

So what am I doing wrong, and how do I fix it? do I keep taking the top off the shellholder? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Never hurts to have one of these:



Get a small base die. That may reduce the case body enough that you don't have a crush fit case. Chambers are not all alike. Ruger cut my 308 Win M77 chamber with a reamer that produced a huge case mouth. Barrel makers will sell short chambered barrels with extra large case head cuts, so no one complains about ammunition not chambering. I don't want to comment badly on Lee dies, you get what you pay for, but my Lee rifle dies do not reduce the case by much.

Some of my better 308 Win small base sizing dies: My Lyman 308 small base dies sizes cases more than anyother brand. RCBS small base is good, and the decapper is hard to break. Redding is good, God awful expensive. My Bonanza match die was only slightly smaller than a standard die. And, if you use a small base die, lube the cases with Imperial Sizing wax or RCBS water soluble. You will stick a case with spray on lubes.

 

[BBarn]

Assuming the Lee die is not defective, it sounds like a combination of die adjustment and press flex. The removal of .020" should have been much more than enough to compensate for press flex.

Check the clearance between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the sizing die when actually sizing a case. If there is clearance between them, the die can be adjusted down further to size the case even more.

 

[greyling22]

I think the base is the problem. I marked the neck and base with a sharpie on a case that the bolt closed on ok, but wouldn't extract, and the rub marks looked like the base.

so then I marked the base a case that had been sized before I started working on the shellholder. The bolt would not close. When I knocked it out with a cleaning rod, there are some pretty obvious rub marks at the base. So I'm currently thinking that my lee die is sizing to the large side of spec, and the xbolt has a tight chamber. may need a small base die.

 

[emb]

The problem is not with your die or shell holder. No 2 rifle chambers are the same. You will need to measure the case shoulder length. I believe that you'll find that you are not setting the shoulder back enough. I use a RCBS Mic Gauge. They are caliber specific and available from Midway and others. There are many other manufacturers of these types of gauges. If you still have the piece of brass that you fired, measure the shoulder set back using that piece of brass. Subtract .002 from it. Size a piece of brass to that shoulder length and try to chamber it. Keep going at .001 at a time until it chambers smoothly. Write the size down so you can duplicate it. You can also measure the shoulder case length on a factory round and set back the shoulder back to that length. IMO replace the shell holder you ground down.

 

[AJC1]

I think the base is the problem. I marked the neck and base with a sharpie on a case that the bolt closed on ok, but wouldn't extract, and the rub marks looked like the base.
View attachment 1120735
so then I marked the base a case that had been sized before I started working on the shellholder. The bolt would not close. When I knocked it out with a cleaning rod, there are some pretty obvious rub marks at the base. So I'm currently thinking that my lee die is sizing to the large side of spec, and the xbolt has a tight chamber. may need a small base die.

View attachment 1120736 View attachment 1120737

I don't know if a small base will fix that so far down. You may want to see if that section of the case is far enough out of the shell holder to be sized. As stated earlier that rifle will be best served by having its own cases. Does a case fired and sized in that gun only fit?

 

[mmb617]

The problem is not with your die or shell holder. No 2 rifle chambers are the same. You will need to measure the case shoulder length. I believe that you'll find that you are not setting the shoulder back enough. I use a RCBS Mic Gauge. They are caliber specific and available from Midway and others. There are many other manufacturers of these types of gauges. If you still have the piece of brass that you fired, measure the shoulder set back using that piece of brass. Subtract .002 from it. Size a piece of brass to that shoulder length and try to chamber it. Keep going at .001 at a time until it chambers smoothly. Write the size down so you can duplicate it. You can also measure the shoulder case length on a factory round and set back the shoulder back to that length. IMO replace the shell holder you ground down.

I agree with this. I bought a Savage Axis 2 in .308 and was having a problem with extraction. I could rotate the bolt up but could not pull it back. I bought a Whidden case gauge and followed the procedure outlined above and the problem went away. I'm also using a Lee die with an unaltered shell holder.

 

[Charlie98]

So I'm currently thinking that my lee die is sizing to the large side of spec, and the xbolt has a tight chamber. may need a small base die.

Not necessarily a SB die, but just maybe a different brand of die.

Not a big fan of grinding off the top of shellholders... I have broken one of mine out that was unmolested... you have a sticky case in the die, you are liable to rip the rim off the shellholder.

Question for the OP: I know you say you have the sizing die adjusted properly... but have you checked the die to shellholder gap with a case rammed up into the sizer? At cam over, check to see if there is a gap between the two. Someone mentioned press flex, which is a thing, but also all of the components in the stack under tension. It took me a number of years to figure that one out...

 

[243winxb]

RCBS Small Base Die, may help? <edit.


New Gun = New Brass.

 

[redcon1]

The Redding small base body die is a good investment when trying to coerce brass like this back to something closer to factory spec and the slotted Sheridan gauge that has already been mentioned will also be of great help. I use these tools all the time to make terribly blown out brass functional again. Some cases are just beyond hope and just won't size right however and, as has already been mentioned, you can just save yourself all the trouble and buy some new Lapua brass for the rifle. That's what I did with my new .308 Bergara. I purchased 100 brand new Lapua cases dedicated for that rifle and that rifle only. They were around $100 but I anticipate getting 20 reloads out of each one so...

 

[greyling22]

I called lee, they said they cannot do anything.

there is no gap between shellholder and the bottom of the die. there wasn't before I started working on the shellholder, and there isn't now after working on it. it's not a neck issue or a shoulder issue. Those areas are not marring the sharpie. It's not a bullet issue and it's an unloaded case. It's a base issue.

And I'm not going to buy a bunch of new brass for 1 gun. Life's too short for that. I'm starting to think I should just run a finish reamer up there and open the chamber up a bit.

308 specs put a .4709 dimension for the very base. my factory and reloaded cases measure .4700. however, when I go up the body just a bit, the factory case measures .464, and the resized cases still measure .470.


Annnnnd you can see where the chamber is rubbing on a factory case in that same spot.

 

[Charlie98]

Dumb question... have you looked at the chamber for reamer marks? Maybe it wasn't actually finished...

 

[AJC1]

I called lee, they said they cannot do anything.

there is no gap between shellholder and the bottom of the die. there wasn't before I started working on the shellholder, and there isn't now after working on it. it's not a neck issue or a shoulder issue. Those areas are not marring the sharpie. It's not a bullet issue and it's an unloaded case. It's a base issue.

And I'm not going to buy a bunch of new brass for 1 gun. Life's too short for that. I'm starting to think I should just run a finish reamer up there and open the chamber up a bit.

308 specs put a .4709 dimension for the very base. my factory and reloaded cases measure .4700. however, when I go up the body just a bit, the factory case measures .464, and the resized cases still measure .470.
View attachment 1120755 View attachment 1120756 View attachment 1120757

Annnnnd you can see where the chamber is rubbing on a factory case in that same spot.
View attachment 1120758

A reamer isn't cheap. A quality gun Smith isn't cheap, and wrecking a barrel isn't cheap. Good solutions include 1. Use only factory ammunition, 2. Segregate brass for this gun, 3. Order a custom die that will address the problem.