REL1203
Member
I was given 200 rounds of brass, only problem is I cant tell if its 5.56 or 223. Its stamped "P S" on the top, and the bottom it says "7 9"
Any Ideas? Is that a Mil-surp crimp?
Any Ideas? Is that a Mil-surp crimp?
Help Identify this brass... is it 223 or 556?
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jonnyc
Member
It is South Korean milsurp, so technically it's 5.56mm.
REL1203
Member
I kinda figured it was some 5.56...... Is that an example of what a Crimped Primer looks like? I still dont really get what it looks like
sonier
Member
i have never been able to really tell if its crimped or not from the case, but if its military which it is then its crimped.
Hondo 60
Member
Once you pop the primer out, take a look again.
You'll see an extra ring or insert.
You'll see an extra ring or insert.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The crimp is plainly visable in your photo.
Note the depressed ring around the primer pocket?
That's the crimp.
Another way to almost always tell is by the headstamp.
Anything with a couple of letters and a year of manufacture like your PS 79 (79 = 1979) that is military.
If it is military, it is 5.56 NATO, and the primer is crimped.
rc
Note the depressed ring around the primer pocket?
That's the crimp.
Another way to almost always tell is by the headstamp.
Anything with a couple of letters and a year of manufacture like your PS 79 (79 = 1979) that is military.
If it is military, it is 5.56 NATO, and the primer is crimped.
rc
REL1203
Member
Thanks RC. I just bought the "RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center Military Crimp Remover Small" and I guess I need to learn how to use it finally...
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
As will a sharp pocket-knife blade.
That's all I had when I started reloading GI brass in 1962.
But I'm here to tell you there are better ways to do it now.
Swaging is the best way.
rc
That's all I had when I started reloading GI brass in 1962.
But I'm here to tell you there are better ways to do it now.
Swaging is the best way.
rc
It is brass from a military round, it was probably loaded to 5.56 pressures. As it stand now it is both 5.56 and 223 brass as they are identical in external dimensions and are 100% interchangeable. FL size it and load it to 223 pressures and it becomes 223 brass, FL size it and load it to 5.56 pressures and it has become 5.56 brass.
Internal case capacity may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but in the 223 the majority of military brass has more case capacity than civilian(223) brass. LC having the highest case capacity in most instances.
Internal case capacity may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but in the 223 the majority of military brass has more case capacity than civilian(223) brass. LC having the highest case capacity in most instances.
wanderinwalker
Member
OMG!!! Really, have you verified this information first-hand? Every manual I've ever read says "Reduce loads by 5% when using military brass"!
j/k by the way.To the OP, that is crimped and was more than likely 5.56mm loaded, probably M193-type being from the mid-70s.
If you can get your hands on some, Lake City makes great brass for loading .223, especially out of a self-loader. Lightweight with plenty of case capacity (do NOT use common Highpower loads in just any commercial cases, most have lower capacity) and good toughness.
medalguy
Member
I also wondered about the case capacity question and a couple of years ago I took several 7.62 and 5.56 cases and did a water volume test. My results also showed that most of the military cases actually held very slightly more water than civilian cases. Now this was based on fired brass but I have to assume (there's that word again) the same results would hold for unfired brass.
Yes, I have varifed it first hand. Not every manual says to reduce 223/5.56 military brass. From Sierra's manual.
The conventional wisdom to reduce loads with military brass is familiar to most reloaders and is generally good advice. The rationale here is that the military cases tend to be somewhat thicker and heavier than their civilian counterparts, which in turn reduces capacity and raises pressures. This additional pressure normally requires a one or two grain reduction from the loads shown in most manuals or other data developed with commercial cases. While this is most often the situation with both 308 Winchester and 30-06 cases, it is less true with the 223 brass. We have found that military cases often have significantly more capacity than several brands of commercial brass. Again, take the time to do a side-by-side comparison of the cases you are working with and adjust your load as needed. There may be no need for such a reduction with the 223. Know your components and keep them segregated accordingly.
From Here.
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
Lake City 06 92.0 30.6
WCC99 95.5 30.5
Sellier & Belloit 92.3 30.5
Remington 92.3 30.4
PMC 93.5 30.4
Hirtenberger 93.7 30.4
Lake City 04 93.0 30.4
Federal 96.3 30.2
Hornady 93.9 30.1
IMG (Guatemalan) 95.4 30.1
Lapua (new lot) 93.4 30.1
Winchester 93.9 30.1
Olympic 97.4 30.0
Radway Arsenal 96.1 30.0
PMP 104.5 29.9
FNM 93-1 97.3 29.8
Lapua (old lot) 104.0 28.0
From here.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55149
swiftak
Member
.223 will always say .223 on it. Milsurp always has the year of mfg, and the letters on it.
steve4102 is right, not all military brass has less capacity than all commercial brass. I know that from weighing cases. The info he posted just bears that out. My Speer manuals always said to reduce for military cases. I guess they are just being cautious.
When reloading plinking ammo that will use mixed cases, I just load to be safe in the heaviest cases. I make notes of case weights in test samples when working up loads in rifle calibers.
Here is a screenshot from a .223 "plinking ammo" load. Case weight was logged on the first firing of the then 8 cases. I have an old hand written log, but have used the computer for years now to log new loads. I made an excel file for rifle and for pistol. The "accuracy" load page for rifle looks very much different than a plinking load page. It records much more.
When reloading plinking ammo that will use mixed cases, I just load to be safe in the heaviest cases. I make notes of case weights in test samples when working up loads in rifle calibers.
Here is a screenshot from a .223 "plinking ammo" load. Case weight was logged on the first firing of the then 8 cases. I have an old hand written log, but have used the computer for years now to log new loads. I made an excel file for rifle and for pistol. The "accuracy" load page for rifle looks very much different than a plinking load page. It records much more.
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wanderinwalker
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steve4102, thanks for all that info. I was just being tongue-in-cheek on my earlier response though. I have checked capacity of various LC cases versus my Winchester brass and found the Lake City will normally accept loads about .5 gr or so over what the Winchesters limit at. Which is why I said if you're getting heavy-bullet .223 loads from a Highpower shooter, don't just stuff them in any old commercial cases *cough* Federal *cough* because odds are they are using Lake City or similar "5.56" brass.
And thanks for the Sierra manual list, I don't have that one. Have a Nosler and a Lyman and I'm pretty sure both list the "reduce loads in military cases" in the .223 section. Now I have to go check!
*cough* because odds are they are using Lake City or similar "5.56" brass.And thanks for the Sierra manual list, I don't have that one. Have a Nosler and a Lyman and I'm pretty sure both list the "reduce loads in military cases" in the .223 section. Now I have to go check!
Oh yea. I shot those seven cases today. (14th loading with semi loose primer pockets) and one primer fell out on firing. It stayed in the locking lug area and stopped the bolt from closing. Fished it out and all was well. That was the second of the eight cases to loose a primer when firing, so I scrapped them. Still no sign of case head separation, just loose primer pockets. 64 Gr Win PP at an Avg 3017 FPS using SRB-118. Primers looked good. Pockets were just loose from being fired 14 times. I have another set of 7 cases ready to keep up the testing. Just getting numbers and a stopping point right now.
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