Help me ID Old S&W M&P

[ColtShooter]

I inheirited a 5" S&W .38 Special revolver awhile back. I had been told that it was a "target pistol" although I see nothing to indicate that (except that the gap in the fixed "rear sight" is just a few mm wide).

The serial number is 519xx on the frame and crane.
The serial number is 3477xx on the grip frame and cylinder.

The online search engine at http://armscollectors.com/srs/lookup_s_wda38.php does show some references to Olympic guns in a similar SN range (and plenty of other guns as well).

It has patent markings on the barrel of: '01 '06 '09 and '14.

What do the numbers on the frame/crane indicate?
Are they in some way related to the overal SN for the revolver or just a part number that S&W used in house?
What do you suppose they gained by putting a SN on the back of the cylinder?


It seems to have lead a LONG full life as it has plenty of shake in all dimensions when locked up, and only has about 50% blue coverage anymore. It is wearing the original grips, which show typical wear on the left side, while the right side has almost no checkering visible anymore.

I would be interested in any information anyone could offer about this revolver. I'm assuming it's just a commercial over-the-counter gun from 1915 to 1940 or so. I've researched it enough to know that it won't have a model # or "M&P" on it anywhere (the wonders of the Internet).

I'll probably have it rebuilt and refinished one of these days and keep it in shooting condition; I know there's no shortage of these in circulation and it probably has little collectors value.

 

[Old Fuff]

You have what is known as a: Smith & Wesson 1905 Hand Ejector/Military & Police Model; 4th change. These were made between 1915 through 1942 within a serial number range running from 241,704 to 1,000,000.

They started heat-treating cylinders at No. 316,648, but I would STRONGLY suggest you not shoot +P ammunition in it.

The serial number ( 347,7xx ) is on the butt. The other numbers are as you suspect, assembly numbers to insure that certain fitted parts get back on the right frame.

Target models had adjustable rear sights and (usually) 6†barrels. Adjustable sighted revolvers with other barrel lengths are not unheard of however.

I believe your gun was made sometime during the middle 1920’s but to learn the exact date and other details you will need a factory letter. It can obtained from the company historian, Roy Jinks for a charge of $30.00 – see: www.smith-wesson.com for details.

A good “smith†can fix the looseness. I wouldn’t refinish it because the original blue is entirely different that that used now. In its present condition it doesn’t have much collector’s value, but I’m sure it means a lot to you're family. Take good care of it.

 

[ColtShooter]

Old Fuff advised: "A good “smith†can fix the looseness. I wouldn’t refinish it because the original blue is entirely different that that used now. ..."

So, S&W was rust blueing back then? Where the patent dates are located, it looks like some military rust blueing I have seen. The rest of the gun is too worn to make much of a guess.

I should have guessed right off the "target" theory was pretty weak with fixed sights.

Thanx for the info you provided.

 

[Old Fuff]

Early Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers were "browned" or "colored" with a heat process called "carcoal blue." A very deep, dark blue - but it tends to fleck off with age. During World War One S&W used a process called "Carbona Blue" (not sure of the spelling) with a flat polish. In their 75th. Anniversary Catalog, issued around 1930, they make the following statement:

"During the time that Smith & Wesson was supplying revolvers to the Canadian, British and United States forces, we adopted a dull blue finish, it being much more practical for such arms in that the reflection of light was reduced to a minimum; and so popular did this finish prove that for several years thereafter we employed it on all blued guns. Recently however, we decided to return to the old Smith & Wesson finish, the highly polished, deep blue black so well-known and liked in the past."

While the "flat finish" does look somewhat like rust-blue it isn't that. I think "the look" would be hard to duplicate with a modern chemical process that usually produces a darker blue.

The finish and mechanical wear on the gun is honest. Clearly the former owner used it, and hopefully used it well. A "perfect relic" has no story to tell. It spent its life safe in a drawer or box. The worn one has "been they're and done that."

For more information goto: www.smith-wessonforum.com

This is a collector's forum, not the company's site.

 

[ColtShooter]

Thanx Old Fuff. I'll prowl the smith forum you suggested awhile.

Your description of "flaking off" blue rings true- there are wide flat surfaces that would normally not take much wear, that are devoid of any finish.

I'm getting curious enough now that I may just send S&W the $30 to find out the history.

 

[Old Fuff]

I hope you do. Anyone with a "family gun" that is going to be handed down should do so. You never know what you might find out, and a letter from Roy Jinks is worth $30.00 (or more) any day. I believe Colt charges around $100.00 or so for the same kind of service.