Help with 9mm loads and OAL

[TBL65]

Sport Pistol results at approx 21 feet:
3.7gr at 1.133” = 1.35”
3.8gr at 1.133”= 1.75”
3.9gr at 1.133”= 1.10”
4.0gr at 1.133”= 2.0”

Started with 1.133” OAL as that is close to my max OAL for my Glock 19.
Will be taking bds’s suggestions and start reducing OAL to hopefully tighten up groups.

I think I am going to use 3.7gr and 3.9gr and play with OAL. So far I am really liking sport pistol. Being so new to reloading I only have W231 to compare it to but so far I like it more!

 

[Walkalong]

Nice shooting, love the rest.

 

[kmw1954]

All part of the load development exorcise. Fun, isn't it!
Next give it a few days and go back and repeat that same test, see if you get the same results. I know I don't and that is all me. Some days I just shoot better than others.

 

[TBL65]

Nice shooting, love the rest.

Thanks! Not bad for $7 worth of materials and an hour or so of time! Should really help in consistency. The cut out it just large enough to rest of the frame of my Glock 19 in.

All part of the load development exorcise. Fun, isn't it!
Next give it a few days and go back and repeat that same test, see if you get the same results. I know I don't and that is all me. Some days I just shoot better than others.

I’m loving the load development and testing! Will definitely go out with the same loads and see if I get the same results as well as decreasing OAL.

 

[TBL65]

Was able to get back out to the range yesterday for some more sport pistol testing. Kept the same 3.7gr and 3.9gr at 1.133” and got even been results then the first time out. Also shot both charge weights at 1.125”, 1.115” and 1.080”. All shot at ~25ft

Groups and sizes attached in pictures below.
At this point I’m not sure which load to continue to use. 3.7gr at both 1.133 and 1.080” shot great. 3.9gr shot almost as good but groups seemed more consistent and regardless of OAL

 

[kmw1954]

From the looks of those pictures I think I'd be looking at that 3.7gr load. Have you tried in-between at 3.8gr yet?

Either way I think you've found a pretty nice load for your gun.

 

[Walkalong]

From that limited testing 3.7 vs 3.9 is a toss up, even though 3.7 made that nice group, as 3.9 nearly did, but I would certainly want to try 3.8, and if 3.8 can shoot good groups repeatedly, I would start to believe I have something.

 

[TBL65]

From the looks of those pictures I think I'd be looking at that 3.7gr load. Have you tried in-between at 3.8gr yet?

Either way I think you've found a pretty nice load for your gun.

From that limited testing 3.7 vs 3.9 is a toss up, even though 3.7 made that nice group, as 3.9 nearly did, but I would certainly want to try 3.8, and if 3.8 can shoot good groups repeatedly, I would start to believe I have something.

Can definitely try 3.8gr at the various OAL. Started with 3.7 and 3.9 since it gave the best groups during initial testing. Will try and load some up at 3.8 this weekend and head to the range early next week and report back

Still have my first 223 loads to try out too

 

[Dudedog]

I agree give 3,8 a try, I might be tempted to try something between 1.115 and 1.08 as well. (since the OAL change is free to try)
Say maybe somewhere between 1.09-1.10.

 

[TBL65]

I agree give 3,8 a try, I might be tempted to try something between 1.115 and 1.08 as well. (since the OAL change is free to try)
Say maybe somewhere between 1.09-1.10.

Got some loaded up at 3.8 before heading into work tonight. Only got 1.080” and 1.133” loaded. Will probably load up a couple other OAL but figured I’d start there since those worked well at 3.7gr and 3.9gr

Been loading everything on my RCBS RC and double checking which charge weight(more so as a test to see how accurate my cheap digital scale is, and so far so good!) But man does it take a while loading on a single stage. Been contemplating a cheap Lee turret or progressive

 

[Walkalong]

If the OAL is going to show a difference on target, I would think that would do it. I just load for function in autos and then find something good there.

 

[Dudedog]

The Lee Turret is a good step up, much faster than a single stage.
I have a LNL progressive and really like it, faster than my Lee Turret but twice the price. (or more)

Most everybody who has a Lee Turret seems happy with it.

 

[lordpaxman]

Got some loaded up at 3.8 before heading into work tonight. Only got 1.080” and 1.133” loaded. Will probably load up a couple other OAL but figured I’d start there since those worked well at 3.7gr and 3.9gr

Been loading everything on my RCBS RC and double checking which charge weight(more so as a test to see how accurate my cheap digital scale is, and so far so good!) But man does it take a while loading on a single stage. Been contemplating a cheap Lee turret or progressive

You're almost hooked.... Don't fight it, give in to the dark side. Once you get a progressive, you'll shoot even more.

Just a cautionary note on the load workups, your COL swing is 1.133 down to 1.080, or about .053", for at least W231 and SP. That's a large col swing, in my book, for 9mm. Both these powders I've found to be tolerant of that, but if you start experimenting with faster powders, try to find published data first and if you need to load to a shorter COL, do it in small increments, more like .005-.010. Especially if you try Titegroup or similar. Consider a chrono as part of the budget with the progressive. Good luck and welcome to the addiction.

 

[kmw1954]

In my case I load for 2 guns in 380, 9mm and 45acp. I try to find the longest load that will fit in the shortest chamber of the 2 guns. For instance in my case the ZE380 loads shorter than my Witness Pavona. The 9mm XD Mod 2 loads shorter than the 92C and the Witness 45acp loads shorter than the XD Mod2 45acp. So I set all loads to fit the shortest barrel and then adjust powder charge to compensate for length when compared to the published load length. This method does not produce the most accurate ammo for each gun but it does allow for interchangeability with still very accurate results from both guns.

I also do not have a chrono but with the powders I use I have not seen a change in the POI with small powder changes. And I do see a curve in accuracy from start to max loads with most loads the most accuracy is somewhere between mid-load to just below max.

Hope you are still having FUN!

 

[LiveLife]

sport pistol testing ... All shot at ~25ft

At this point I’m not sure which load to continue to use. 3.7gr at both 1.133 and 1.080” shot great. 3.9gr shot almost as good but groups seemed more consistent and regardless of OAL

Looking good on your powder work up and range tests! You may be hovering an accuracy node around 3.7 gr and 3.9 gr.

Since 3.8 gr at 1.100" did well, would you consider trying 3.8 gr at 1.080" on your next range trip?

To satisfy my curiosity, could you also include 3.8 gr at 1.080"? This way, you cover the full spectrum of accuracy node from 3.7 gr to 3.9 gr to include 3.8 gr.

From your full powder work up, you chose 3.7 gr and 3.9 gr and now trying to determine which is more accurate of two while incrementally decreasing the OAL. But if you are getting inconsistent results that may not produce accuracy trend that is self-evident, you simply need to repeat the range test to confirm/verify your findings. BTW, I often repeat range testing several times before deciding a load is "accurate/very accurate".

If the repeat range testings show the same results, then you got confirmation/verification. If the repeat range testings show different results, you got more work to do (And why I suggested inclusion of 3.8 gr load ).

At this point, you can also consider testing the loads at longer range of 15 yards (45 feet) on your next range test. Barring shooter input, more accurate loads should produce smaller group size more readily at longer range.

Keep us posted.

 

[TBL65]

You're almost hooked.... Don't fight it, give in to the dark side. Once you get a progressive, you'll shoot even more.

Just a cautionary note on the load workups, your COL swing is 1.133 down to 1.080, or about .053", for at least W231 and SP. That's a large col swing, in my book, for 9mm. Both these powders I've found to be tolerant of that, but if you start experimenting with faster powders, try to find published data first and if you need to load to a shorter COL, do it in small increments, more like .005-.010. Especially if you try Titegroup or similar. Consider a chrono as part of the budget with the progressive. Good luck and welcome to the addiction.

I appreciate the cautious words! Maybe my posts were a little jumbled. I did not mean for it to sound like I went from a 1.133” OAL right down to a 1.080” OAL. With W231 I started long and decreased the OAL by about .005 until I reached 1.080” looking for pressure signs. Then loaded up multiple rounds for accuracy and continued to look for pressure signs. SP I did the same, thought slightly larger OAL jumps (1.133 down to 1.125 down to 1.080”) as it’s similar to W231’s burn rate.

A chrono is definitely in the future!

In my case I load for 2 guns in 380, 9mm and 45acp. I try to find the longest load that will fit in the shortest chamber of the 2 guns. For instance in my case the ZE380 loads shorter than my Witness Pavona. The 9mm XD Mod 2 loads shorter than the 92C and the Witness 45acp loads shorter than the XD Mod2 45acp. So I set all loads to fit the shortest barrel and then adjust powder charge to compensate for length when compared to the published load length. This method does not produce the most accurate ammo for each gun but it does allow for interchangeability with still very accurate results from both guns.

I also do not have a chrono but with the powders I use I have not seen a change in the POI with small powder changes. And I do see a curve in accuracy from start to max loads with most loads the most accuracy is somewhere between mid-load to just below max.

Hope you are still having FUN!

I just have the one 9mm so right now I’m loading specifically for that. If or should I say when I get another 9mm I’ll tweak the loads for both firearms. I’ve been seeing the same with w231 and SP as far as accuracy in the mid range of the charges. POI shifts are minor if at all at the ranges I’m testing. Groups open up or shrink based on charge and OAL.

Yes I am still having fun! I’ve enjoyed the learning curve and tinkering, tweaking and adjusting so far!

 

[TBL65]

Looking good on your powder work up and range tests! You may be hovering an accuracy node around 3.7 gr and 3.9 gr.

To satisfy my curiosity, could you also include 3.8 gr at 1.080"? This way, you cover the full spectrum of accuracy node from 3.7 gr to 3.9 gr to include 3.8 gr.

From your full powder work up, you chose 3.7 gr and 3.9 gr and now trying to determine which is more accurate of two while incrementally decreasing the OAL. But if you are getting inconsistent results that may not produce accuracy trend that is self-evident, you simply need to repeat the range test to confirm/verify your findings. BTW, I often repeat range testing several times before deciding a load is "accurate/very accurate".

If the repeat range testings show the same results, then you got confirmation/verification. If the repeat range testings show different results, you got more work to do (And why I suggested inclusion of 3.8 gr load ).

At this point, you can also consider testing the loads at longer range of 15 yards (45 feet) on your next range test. Barring shooter input, more accurate loads should produce smaller group size more readily at longer range.

Keep us posted.

Great minds think alike. I hade planned to load up some more at the two best groupings in both 3.7 and 3.9gr (1.080” and 1.133”) and re test them to verify. I’ll load up a few more of those then I originally planned and test them at a 15 yards!

Also sure can test 3.8 at 1.080”. Already got them loaded up. I’ll load a few more of those to test at 15 yards as well!

Might even get it today

 

[fxvr5]

Instead of 5 rounds, load 25 rounds of each and shoot all 25 on one target. 5 rounds isn't enough to tell you anything useful, especially when your group sizes are so close to the same size.