Heres how i grip it, now im ready for yall to rip it

[9mmepiphany]

I told you there would be a lot of different takes on how to grip a handgun. Learning to grip a gun is normally a progression, a journey, because as your understanding of how different gripping techniques affect your (1) POI and your (2) recovery between shots, you'll be able to make a more knowledgeable selection between what is available.

Remember that the most efficient technique is always changing, always improving...I'm not convinced, short of physical limitations, that there isn't an optimal grip. There are just folks who have stopped in the progression and are happy where they are.

It does help if we are all working toward the same goal. From out exchanges, I have gathered that your goal is to establish a platform which will allow you to be comfortable in defensive use of a handgun...and in IDPA/USPSA competition. The optimal technique for these goals is the same...placing accurate shots on target quickly and repeatedly

At some time in my shooting career...casual, LE, competition and teaching...I've used all the techniques mentioned above. I was quite a follower of Ayoob's techniques back when that above article was written (2004) and while it does have it's place in training, it is a bit dated.

This is the shooting hands grip that I build on. Not that the thumb is not pushing/pressing on the gun at all. All the pressure is from the gripping fingers pulling the frame back into the pocket formed between the palm and the base of the thumb



I fill that empty space on the side of the grip with my support hand. The base of both thumbs are in full contact, but do not overlap. My fingers fill in the "valleys" between the fingers of the strong handand the thumb is as high on the gun as possible without interfering with the slide...the wrist is pronated forward and the fingers point downward at about 45 degrees. The support hand applies side-to-side pressure on the grip

 

[jim8115]

Try different styles. Find out what works for you. Eveyone is different, has different sized hands, etc. Find the grips that seems to give you the best control, and then stick with it and practice. Try setting an empty case on the slide, and dry fire without knocking the cartridge off. test different holds snd see which is most stable.

JIM

 

[9mmepiphany]

What if you've got a really long trigger finger and it feels like you're brushing it against the support hand thumb while firing the gun?

Flare the finger out to the side, from the knuckle closest to the palm, until you can place the face of the trigger behind the fingernail bed.

Flaring the trigger finger out is a good idea anyway as it avoids any influence of the tightening muscles, in the finger, during the trigger press

 

[9mmepiphany]

Your grip will not necessarily help you to shoot more accurately.

There is a lot of truth to this. I have often demonstrated this to clients by shooting groups while holding the gun with just the middle finger pulling the frame into my hand and pressing the trigger...it is just a trigger management skill

The other side of this observation is that a less than optimal grip will add vectors of pressure which negatively affect the bullet strike. So it might not help you shoot more accurately, but it can sure make you shoot less accurately. This makes it harder to diagnose shooting problems the shooter is experiencing while learning trigger control

 

[Potatohead]

Thanks everyone. Great videos. Short and to the point. Good for those of yall...ahem...who have ADHD

Thanks 9..the support hand only deals with left and right, what about the "push/pull" that some have told me about,where the support hand pulls back into the palm and the other hand pushes forward, with much more pressure pulling than pushing?

 

[Potatohead]

Also, the firing hand thumb is a no pressure deal, but what about the support thumb? How much pressure do you apply with this thumb?

 

[Potatohead]

Try setting an empty case on the slide, and dry fire without knocking the cartridge of

Awesome! i will try this. i love dry firing and can tell its helping a lot

 

[9mmepiphany]

Thanks 9..the support hand only deals with left and right, what about the "push/pull" that some have told me about,where the support hand pulls back into the palm and the other hand pushes forward, with much more pressure pulling than pushing?

Don't do it. It is based on an older philosophy of recoil management and its effectiveness was disproved, for it's intended purpose, by follow-on techniques. Isometric tension (what you are calling push/pull) makes recovery between shots slower and pulls shots low. This is one reason I advocate for the Isosceles grip geometry, it makes it easier to separate poor trigger control from gripping flaws

Also, the firing hand thumb is a no pressure deal, but what about the support thumb? How much pressure do you apply with this thumb?

None, neither thumb needs to touch the gun. It they do, they shouldn't apply any pressure...it pushes your shots laterally

 

[Potatohead]

(what you are calling push/pull) makes recovery between shots slower and pulls shots low.

Great. It felt weird to me. Thanks very much, i look forward to trying all of this out on the next range trip. Thanks everyone

 

[Feanaro]

The best place to begin applying these tips is at home, with a little safe handling of an empty pistol. Practice drawing the pistol and assuming a good grip. Acquire a few "targets" (pictures on the wall, whatever), practice your reloads, do a little dry firing, etc while making sure your grip is good.

It's easy for your muscles to "forget" all this good advice at the range as you get caught up in the loud noises, the holes in the paper and the conversations of your fellow shooters. I prefer to practice reloads, grip and similar techniques at home - range time tells me whether my practices are sound.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Try different styles. Find out what works for you. Eveyone is different, has different sized hands, etc. Find the grips that seems to give you the best control, and then stick with it and practice. Try setting an empty case on the slide, and dry fire without knocking the cartridge off. test different holds snd see which is most stable.

JIM

Awesome drill! +1 never heard of that...

 

[Potatohead]

thx feanaro, very good point

 

[9mmepiphany]

Try setting an empty case on the slide, and dry fire without knocking the cartridge off.

Awesome drill! +1 never heard of that...

This is a good time to point out that there are always new shooters coming into the community who aren't familiar with drills or practices that many folks take for granted.

After you get the case to stay on top of the slide, you can move on to a dime...after a bit of practice, you can graduate to a quarter standing on it's edge (maybe MrBorland will post his Youtube clip)

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

Here's a proper Semi-Auto grip:

No disrespect, but if I tried a grip like that it would make for "slide-bite city". (Maybe I've just got chubby hands.)

 

[Beentown]

With me I am thumbs forward like above. I also use my offhand for most of my grip pressure (estimated 80%). My strong hand is for trigger manipulation mostly.

 

[9mmepiphany]

if I tried a grip like that it would make for "slide-bite city". (Maybe I've just got chubby hands.)

Are you worried about the webbing of your hand?

A wider beavertail will usually help avoid that

With me I am thumbs forward like above. I also use my offhand for most of my grip pressure (estimated 80%). My strong hand is for trigger manipulation mostly.

I also try keep my strong hand pretty relaxed for better trigger control

I'd like to point out that the grip that you are referring to is more a Thumbs Up (w/thumbs pointing forward) grip than a Thumbs Forward grip...the easy way to tell the different is the pronation of the supporting hand's wrist

Thumbs Up


Thumbs Forward


I used a 1911 style platform for this illustration, because of the need to rest the strong thumb on the thumb safety for a correct grip with this platform

 

[Potatohead]

Maybe hoosier is talking about his support hand getting in the slide?

Hey 9 im on my phone and cant see the whole thread. You're saying u feel thumbs forward is better, not thumbs up, right?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

How well do you shoot?

If you're shooting accurately, your grip is fine -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[MrBorland]

After you get the case to stay on top of the slide, you can move on to a dime...after a bit of practice, you can graduate to a quarter standing on it's edge (maybe MrBorland will post his Youtube clip)

You called?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI

 

[Potatohead]

awesome

 

[Potatohead]

How well do you shoot?

If you're shooting accurately, your grip is fine -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Not to good. Usually decent the first 4 mags, and then downhill from there

 

[Cosmoline]

Pretty much the same grip I use for my heavier revolvers. The locked thumbs help with the weight. For a light semi it might not be ideal, but who knows. The bigger issues are typically fundamentals like feet position, trigger squeeze and front sight focus.

To find the problem, eliminate all variables then reintroduce them one at a time. So start with the pistol rested on the bench with a supporting bag holding it in place. Doesn't have to be fancy at all. Focus on your front sight and trigger control. If you're getting good groups, then you know your problem is something else. Then shoot with your stance as it is, but have your hands resting on the bench but with *no* push-pull tension. Then introduce some tension, then stand up. At some point you'll see your groups get worse and you'll know the problem.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You called?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI

I love that!! I just find it mesmerizing

 

[9mmepiphany]

Hey 9 im on my phone and cant see the whole thread. You're saying u feel thumbs forward is better, not thumbs up, right?

Yes, thumbs forward is better for putting repeated shots on target quickly...however, I have had clients who couldn't do it due to limitations in movement from prior injuries.

Both grips are about equal for accuracy when shooting slowly, but the difference becomes more apparent as the speed between shots increases

 

[Drail]

Crossing your thumbs is actually opening up your grip and you give up some control by doing it. Parallel thumbs get more skin in contact with the frame.